Print

[yoderheating]

 Maybe if its completely plugged but often what I see on flat plates is just scale buildup. Water still flows through but doesn't heat well. It only happens in certain areas normally when you have limestone in the water.

[MO_Hunter]

OK so I got Temp readings now.  Furnace is set to 185 with 10 degree drop

Heat Exchanger
TL 143 degree (pex I believe this is from OWB in)
TR 86 degree at exchanger but 123 2ft away from the exchanger (copper to zone valves)
BL 121 degree (pex return to OWB my guess)
BR 106 degree (copper at pump)

Before Zones 115 degree
Z1 out 110
Z2 out 112
Z3 out 115

Floor radiators are 112 to 119 degrees

I assume temp measurments are could be off a little depending the gun and the user.

Another thing that is strange is I have had water coming out of the overflow stack ever since I filled the unit.  Only comes out when the blower is blowing.  Is there something else that could pull water into the system other than a bad fill valve? (might be related I do not know)

[yoderheating]

 You can't heat a home well with radiators below 120. The part that really caught my attention is the 40 degree loss from furnace to home. All the other numbers look about right for 143 degree water coming from the furnace.

[hondaracer2oo4]

Your temps that head to the house radiators are really low.

This was posted by willie g, I assume its pretty close to accurate.

average numbers for a typical 3/4 one pipe slant fin baseboard is (rated btu per foot of basebaord)
140 degrees delivery ----300 btu
150---350
160---400
170---500
180---550
190---650
200---700

It is no wonder why you can't keep your house at temp. If your zones are only getting 120 degrees you are only putting out maybe 200 btus per foot!

Can you measure the temp of the owb pipe when it leaves the OWB, if it is 185 and it comes into the house at 143 that means that you are losing 42 degrees from boiler to house, that would most certainly point to water touching your lines underground somewhere. Also with these temp guns they are temperamental about what they are reading against, they don't read off of shiny metal but if you put a piece of masking tape around the area and test the tape you will get an accurate reading. The pex can also be funky to read off of, I read off of an area that is normally covered with insulation, I peel it back and take the reading. Remember to put the gun on the pipe when you take the reading or you will get the gun reading the pipe and other things as well. After we figure out if that incoming temp is really a 42 degree drop or not we can move on. Thanks for the numbers, they show the whole story!

[Sprinter]

Putting a piece of electrical tape or even spray paint( flat color) will help give a better IR gun reading. Some guns have emisivity adjustments for this too.
Does the boiler pump have multi speed? I would go buy a bunch of shark bite valves and couplings, and pull the flat plat exchangers IF the boiler pump checks good.
We have to assume this system worked at one time as is. So track down where the big temp loss is. Which you got a good start. Good thing is you do have flow if every radiating pipe and emitter is warm to hot. Infloor systems are low temp ,so 100-130 degree supply depending on substrate.
Since you have no one out there, at least you have plenty of good guys here to help with good info. And with SDS supply you can have and pump or boiler part to your door overnite cheaper than a plumber coming out.
Vinegar works well for flushing out flat plates if you have to. Can you give us you circulator/pump model numbers.

[MO_Hunter]

I will get the reading at furnace tomorrow before going into ground.  Wonder if the water leaking out of overflow is my issue.  Seem there is a large ice collection around the conduit going into ground.



[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]

[slimjim]

That don't look good!

[martyinmi]

I will get the reading at furnace tomorrow before going into ground.  Wonder if the water leaking out of overflow is my issue.  Seem there is a large ice collection around the conduit going into ground.

WOW!!!!
Hopefully that water leak didn't make it's way into your insulated pex. That would definitely explain the heat loss between the boiler and the house.

[slimjim]

Would you care to make a wager on this one Marty? How was Christmas and new years, darn cold over here.

[Scott7m]

My goodness ive missed out

You have some issues thats for sure, but why is there water coming out your over flow?

[slimjim]

Hey Scott where ya been, Sooo,me and Marty have been talking about the show, if I come down , whats the chances of you buying dinner and beverages?

[Scott7m]

Hey Scott where ya been, Sooo,me and Marty have been talking about the show, if I come down , whats the chances of you buying dinner and beverages?

hahaha ill buy the beer

Which show are you referring to tho?

Ive not had much time to be on lately, these new epa regs are gonna change my business drastically and im trying to see whats gonna happen

[MO_Hunter]

OK so I believe we got to the issue.

The system is going through the hot water heater.  I assumed this was a closed circuit but it appears it is not.  There were some valves on the hot water heater that were not close thus it was adding cold water back into the system.

Most likely why my 40 deg temp drop and diff. why water was coming out of overflow stack.

We will see tonight how hot the house gets.

So here is another question.  Should a system that goes through hot water heater be closed or open system.  If open how does the water keep from contamination and how does it keep from adding to much water back into the system?  Man there is a lot to learn here.

[Scott7m]

Wow what a mess.  U must get this straightened out before someone gets hurt or you ruin your stove.  the water should not be being shared. 

You need to use a heat exchanger at the tank to keep the domestic separate from the boiler

[MO_Hunter]

Thanks Scott,

I have close all valves to remove hot water heater from them system until I verify how it was connected.  Had a local plumber help.  Hate the fact that I did not own the home when installed so I know what was done and that home inspector did not know anything about these systems.  Been running in the dark as you can tell.

Guess I will be downloading a installation diagram for how it should be hooked up and going through it with the plumber to make sure it is corrected,