Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: T28c34 on December 09, 2018, 10:25:52 PM
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Our E Classic is 6 years old this year. Never had problems with it until this season. I take care of my baby by cleaning it inside and out after every season. Checking and cleaning the air elbows and lubing the solenoids. I've never had to add water till this season. The water level was at the full line in the beginning this season. now every week I need to add water. There is no signs water leaking from the outside anywhere. I have noticed that I am getting great burn times as long as 16-18 hours. weather has been highs in the low 30s and lows in the upper 20s. also noticed that the reaction chamber is higher than I have seen the past. Its getting as high as 1.40 and water temp of 185. I since replaced the fire box door seal, that was in bad shape. Tested and lubed the solenoids all we around 22 ohms. I set up to add water from in the house. when i am filling, i can hear and see gurgling and boiling water and stream coming of the vent tube. When it gets full the boiling stops, but next thing you know, the water level is down a noticeable amount. Within a few days its way down and have to add again.
Any ideas?
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If you do not see any steam coming from the vent cap at the end of each warmup cycle (Do you? Are you sure it's not there? Sounds like you've got a lot of exposed surface if you're hearing boiling when you refill it), then I'd have to think you've got a plumbing leak somewhere. (Can't be in a hot water heater sideleg, or you'd be losing water pressure and overfilling the furnace, due to the pressure differential.) Since you're not seeing anything in the house (Are you? Have you checked thoroughly?), it would have to be either within your furnace, or in your underground line. If within the furnace, I'd suspect a leak into the firebox, where it's being vaporized and sent up the chimney, because with the volumes you're describing, you should see water/ice draining onto the ground otherwise. An in-ground leak would be harder to locate - others may have suggestions there. For a start, if you have snow on the ground, I'd look for any spot where the snow is disappearing, or quite thin (similar to the snow over most septic tanks, where heat loss from domestic water and decomposition keeps the ground thawed all winter, if the tank is working properly).
With my system mostly set to run at 185 degrees, I've lost about 10 litres(just under 3 US gallons) in 3 years of operation, and most of that happened when I had an air leak at the primary solenoid (hanging up), resulting in tank boiling after warmups).
To recap, water loss possibilities:
- boiling it off (most likely)
- losing it in house (easy to check, not likely without evidence)
- losing it in furnace due to crack or pinhole (hard to detect, unless you cool down and look for dribbles in the firebox, or heat exchanger)
- losing it in ground (hard to check, painful to fix)
If you do have a leak somewhere, I have to ask - what's your water PH? Have you tested regularly? Or is this a corrosion result?
Other possibilities may exist, depending on your system particulars.
Blair
(apologies, most of this is obvious, but it's good to cover all the bases).
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Mystery half solved ! I was loading and cleaning out the ash pit and noticed a lot of steam. Took a look inside and have a pretty steady drip coming down from the refractory brick. Great, have to turn on the propane and for the house and shop to take care of this. Any ideas on where to start looking once cooled down?
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Mystery half solved ! I was loading and cleaning out the ash pit and noticed a lot of steam. Took a look inside and have a pretty steady drip coming down from the refractory brick. Great, have to turn on the propane and for the house and shop to take care of this. Any ideas on where to start looking once cooled down?
That sucks that you have a leak somewhere. Is there a way to remove the refractory to inspect the area behind it? When I had a E-classic 1400 every spring at the end of the heating season I would remove the refractory floor, the rope that held the refractory brick in place and then the fusion chamber. Do you know if the fusion chamber is removable from the 2400 as it is on the 1400? If it is, I would look in that area first. Roger
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Once it cools you'll have to do some investigating. Could be running down from somewhere above the nozzle too. Hopefully its easy to get at and its a quick repair with a welder.
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Thanks for the input. Its going to be a few days before I have time to look into it. That will give me some time to look into how to pull the refractory block. being 6 years old, should I be looking at going ahead and replacing the blocks? When cleaning at the end of the season, I don't see any problems with it. But when I pull it, will they come out with somewhat ease? or will it be in pieces? Like to have any parts on hand so I can get back in operation as soon as possible.
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Bummer, no ideal where to look fo the leak, however if your not a welder might wanna start looking online or in the phone book for somebody with a portable welder that has some experience welding water vessels.
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Thanks for the input. Its going to be a few days before I have time to look into it. That will give me some time to look into how to pull the refractory block. being 6 years old, should I be looking at going ahead and replacing the blocks? When cleaning at the end of the season, I don't see any problems with it. But when I pull it, will they come out with somewhat ease? or will it be in pieces? Like to have any parts on hand so I can get back in operation as soon as possible.
I don't know how the 2400 was made but the floor of the firebox on the 1400 was cover with refractory but manufactured in 2 pieces. Use care removing them especially creosote is present. Take your time trying to free them. On my 1400 the refractory had broken into 6 pieces. I simply placed them together in the firebox like a jig saw puzzle and never had issues. I thought I had a blow up picture of the fusion chamber of my old 1400 but I can't find, it would have given you an idea what is involved removing it. Roger
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Found it! The leak got worse overnight. Since the temp was 34 degrees today I thought I better take advantage of the weather. While cleaning out the coals and ash, I found an area on the left corner, up front full of heavily streaming muddy ash/coals. Tracked it down to the left side about half way up and two inches in the fire box. I started scraping the corner out, and I could see where the water was weeping out. kind of picked at it with the corner of the scraper and there she blows. So I drained the water down and set up to weld it. I'm a better gas welder than MiG or arc welding. but I was out of oxygen. I was going to cut a patch to go a large area but the area from the front of the fire box to about 3 inches back and from top to bottom is kind of warped and wavy. I didn't think a patch would work.
So i started to MiG weld the area, I know it would happen, and was ready for it. The hole opend up to the size of a quarter. I filled the area with weld and started filling. After a few tries and still leaking I had to switch to gas wending because I'm better at that. I should of went with that the first time. I beet up the area up and down the front corner. I didn't punch though anywhere. after inspecting the other side, and the entire firebox, I did not see an other areas that looked like that front left corner. Four hours latter we are up and running again.
Over the summer I think I am going to Clean that front area about 4 inches out and weld in a plate over it all. After all this, I still love my Central boiler.
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Sorry you had a hole in it but glad you found it and have the ability and skill to weld it. Are you going to run it this winter and do a more permanent repair in the off season? Roger
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Yes Roger, I plan on doing a more extensive repair and inspection of the fire box this summer. From looking things over after after my repair, I looks like I should have no problems the rest of the season. The only bad looking area that I could see is that front left side about 3 inches in from top to bottom. I need to research how to remove the black creosote, tar, glaze and such from the inside. So if anyone has any idea besides elbow grease and a wire brush let me know.
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Good deal. Glad you got it back online. Nothing like a quick and inexpensive fix.
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Yes Roger, I plan on doing a more extensive repair and inspection of the fire box this summer. From looking things over after after my repair, I looks like I should have no problems the rest of the season. The only bad looking area that I could see is that front left side about 3 inches in from top to bottom. I need to research how to remove the black creosote, tar, glaze and such from the inside. So if anyone has any idea besides elbow grease and a wire brush let me know.
The only way I know to remove the creosote build up is with elbow grease and a wire brush, I could never find anything else that worked better. But what I used to do is scrape as much of the heavy build up off using a scraper and then brush off whatever was left. It was time consuming and a royal pain in the most southern sector. Roger
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A propane or MAP gas torch works pretty good. Just run the flame across it until it bubbles up and flakes off. If it is really thick, it may just get a layer each time.
After it flakes off, the residue under it really soft and can be scraped off much easier.
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Glad you found the leak!.. I know what you went through! I had 3 pin hole leaks last season..It was awful..Ashes where soaked..I couldn't augur them out..My boiler plugged up..I got it fixed before I shut is down for the season..So far so good on my end!
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Hey RSI, thanks!
I was thinking of trying that, glad to hear that works.