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[PMo]

I installed a new E-Classic 2400 in December.   Used 1-1/4 Thermo Pex tubing from Central boiler and it is buried about 6 inches.  (this is a temp install, due to the late season install)   I am running about 20 feet of Thermo Pex.    So it is not a far run.   Yet I am losing almost 15 degrees, before I ever go to the heat exchanger.   

I have been told this could be air in the line...   It was suggested that I force water into the loop by shutting down the pump at the boiler and then hooking a hose to the loop in-between to shut off valves...   open up the hose... and then open up one shut off forcing the water to the boiler in one direction and then doing the same to the opposite side.    I did this and it didn't make a bit of difference.   

Any thoughts on what else could be causing this heat loss...   or maybe... I tried to force air out incorrectly.

thanks for your time and info.

[Scott7m]

How are you checking the water temp???

Lots of variables!

[hondaracer2oo4]

You must not have snow for 10 feet in each direction of that buried line. If those numbers are true you have to put those btus somewhere. I would double check those numbers if you don't have any melt.

[PMo]

How are you checking the water temp???

Lots of variables!

I kind of think they should add a V to the abbreviation.   OWBV - because Variables seems to be the name of the game.

I am using the on unit temp gauge (firestar II).   Water temp is set to a high of 185 with a 15 degree threshold for outside...  Inside - I have a inline Central boiler analog gauge just past the thermostatic mixing valve.   

Thank you!

[PMo]

You must not have snow for 10 feet in each direction of that buried line. If those numbers are true you have to put those btus somewhere. I would double check those numbers if you don't have any melt.

Snow lays right on top of the soil above the pipe, so the numbers are bad?

[Roger2561]

PMo - Can you verify the water temp is indeed 185 at the OWB other than by what the Firestar II says it is?  If you can in the back of OWB try to get a temperature reading at the nipple before the water gets to the pump.  On my E-Classic 1400 there is a short nipple (I made the mistake of grabbing that short pipe one day with my bare hand and I know that the words that came out of mouth made the devil blush).  Then see what reading you're getting at that point and inside the house.  Perhaps the Firestar II is giving you a false reading.  Just because something is new doesn't mean it's not faulty.  It's man made and all kinds of things can happen.  Good luck.  Roger 

[hondaracer2oo4]

Either your reading at the boiler or in the house is off or your mixing valve is cooling the water. What is the mixing valve for in the sytstem? There is no where for you to lose 15 degrees of temp if you aren't melting any snow and the run is 20 feet. The BTU's have to go somewhere which is A LOT at 185 degrees giving off 15 degrees. I would guess that your temp gauge in the house is off.

[PMo]

PMo - Can you verify the water temp is indeed 185 at the OWB other than by what the Firestar II says it is?  If you can in the back of OWB try to get a temperature reading at the nipple before the water gets to the pump.  On my E-Classic 1400 there is a short nipple (I made the mistake of grabbing that short pipe one day with my bare hand and I know that the words that came out of mouth made the devil blush).  Then see what reading you're getting at that point and inside the house.  Perhaps the Firestar II is giving you a false reading.  Just because something is new doesn't mean it's not faulty.  It's man made and all kinds of things can happen.  Good luck.  Roger

Thanks Roger...  I will buy a gauge that lets me read the temp on the pipe...  then will go inside with same gauge.   Thanks for the info... will let you know how it goes.

[PMo]

Either your reading at the boiler or in the house is off or your mixing valve is cooling the water. What is the mixing valve for in the sytstem? There is no where for you to lose 15 degrees of temp if you aren't melting any snow and the run is 20 feet. The BTU's have to go somewhere which is A LOT at 185 degrees giving off 15 degrees. I would guess that your temp gauge in the house is off.

My understanding is that the Thermostatic Mixing Valve provided by central boiler, keeps warm water going back to the Boiler, so that it is not getting a rush of cool water from the loop return.  I might be wrong.  It was not an optional part, it was included with the system, so it seems to me it was important.   I will get the inside and outside temps with the same device and update you all.

thanks
P

[hondaracer2oo4]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think you are referring to the thermostatic valve not thermostatic mixing valve. The thermostatic valve just sends heat back to the owb until the incoming temp reaches a certain level or if it drops below a certain level it sends it back to the boiler to keep the boiler up to temp. If that is true then one of your gauges is wrong.

[PMo]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think you are referring to the thermostatic valve not thermostatic mixing valve. The thermostatic valve just sends heat back to the owb until the incoming temp reaches a certain level or if it drops below a certain level it sends it back to the boiler to keep the boiler up to temp. If that is true then one of your gauges is wrong.

Yep... that is what I meant... sorry.        I am picking up a laser temp gun to get a read on the pipes and see where the discrepency is....   more to come.

Thanks all for the help!

 

[hondaracer2oo4]

PMo. Some words of advice with the IR temp gun. Many people have problems with theirs getting accurate readings. I have found that there are a couple tricks to getting the most accurate number.

If you are measuring Pex piping take the measurement after the pex has been covered with pipe insulation for atleast a minute, peel back the insulation and take the measurement. Hold the gun sensor right on the pex and keep the gun inline with the pex piping. This seems to lead to the most accurate readings. Also make sure that you are taking measurements for comparison off of the same brand and model of pex piping. I have two different brands of pex piping and they show two different measurements. Only a couple degree difference between the two but they have the same temp water running through them. Also if you want to take the temp of something that is metal it can't be shiny. If you want to get a reading you need to cover the area with masking tape, let the masking tape heat up and then take the reading while pointing the gun at the masking tape. Lastly the further away from an item you get the larger an area the temp gun takes for a measurement. At say 3 inches away the area is 1x1 but at 2 feet away the area is 10x10 inches.

[PMo]

PMo. Some words of advice with the IR temp gun. Many people have problems with theirs getting accurate readings. I have found that there are a couple tricks to getting the most accurate number.

If you are measuring Pex piping take the measurement after the pex has been covered with pipe insulation for atleast a minute, peel back the insulation and take the measurement. Hold the gun sensor right on the pex and keep the gun inline with the pex piping. This seems to lead to the most accurate readings. Also make sure that you are taking measurements for comparison off of the same brand and model of pex piping. I have two different brands of pex piping and they show two different measurements. Only a couple degree difference between the two but they have the same temp water running through them. Also if you want to take the temp of something that is metal it can't be shiny. If you want to get a reading you need to cover the area with masking tape, let the masking tape heat up and then take the reading while pointing the gun at the masking tape. Lastly the further away from an item you get the larger an area the temp gun takes for a measurement. At say 3 inches away the area is 1x1 but at 2 feet away the area is 10x10 inches.

Thank you Hondaracer..   that is great advice.  I am going to redo my test in the am.   I was getting pretty high numbers which seemed a little weird.. but I think it is because there is a little shine to the black pipe.   

I just looked at the camera...  it is actually an IR camera...  does that make a difference?

Again, very much appreciate the help.
PMo

[hondaracer2oo4]

Im not sure what you are referring to as an IR camera? If it is a camera with an IR sensor it works the same aa a hand held IR gun. The further you move away from the sensor the larger area the sensor is reading and averaging the temp of the area that it sees.

[hondaracer2oo4]

How did you make out?