Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Natures Comfort => Topic started by: mikenc on November 03, 2009, 07:13:16 AM
-
Just wandering where other NCB owners have there fan opening set, and how you determined where to set? I think owners manual says 1/4 inch. Is this the setting everyone has used?
-
The draft fan opening should be set at 1/4" at its widest point.
-
Mine is a couple years old and the fan cover was NOT adjustable ... over the summer I did retrofit to be adjustable .. I ran the boiler over the summer to heat my swimming pool ... a little less then the 1/4 inch .. but will open it up more as the season goes on.
steve
-
Steve thanks for the reply. Mine has a turn buckle on it for adjustment. I have noticed that just 1/2 turn on one end makes a big difference in the amount of air into fire box. I have re-worked my grate to keep large chunks from falling through and directed more air to front. I seems to be working better. May have to play around a little to find best air adjustment for new grate. One thing for sure to much air heat goes right up the chimney.
I also noticed an old post of yours where you were thinking about relocating pump, reversing supply and return piping. How did this work out?
How did pool heating this summer go? How much wood?
-
has anyone had any luck adjusting the draft door for the 2009 model.... the door completely lifts off of the fan... it is not hinged like previous models...
-
The 2009 models have an adjustable shutter between the blower and the stove. I can send you pictures if you need more help.
-
this would be helpful... I pic would be great. I have been putting a firm rubber jar opener over about half of the opening with mixed results. I pic would be lovely. thank you... if u can post it that would be great, if you need me email that is fine to.
-
I would be interested in this also! I have a 2007 model that back then the "cover" was not hindged at all and in fact it was stationary between the seliniod that lifted the cover and the fan.. I moved the seliniod up and put a turn buckel in to make the gap adjustable. Works better but there balance of the thing makes it hard to fine tune adjustment .. love to know more about this other type of control and if a retrofit can be made!
steve
-
Ok, Sorry for the delay. I had to take the picture last night. I circled the shutter. All you need to do is loosen the screw and slide the shutter up or down. Up will decrease the flow and down will increase the flow. There are indicator notches on the side of the shutter for reference. I will ask technical support if this setup will work on older models.
-
thanks, this is seemingly easy... I dont remember reading about that in the manual.
-
newbie here
what a great place to get educated
well i just got my nc250 up and running. was burning through wood every 8 hrs. read this thread and found out my damper was wide open. i sure hope my fire lasts longer now.
-
Welcome to the site woodedacres
-
newbie here
what a great place to get educated
well i just got my nc250 up and running. was burning through wood every 8 hrs. read this thread and found out my damper was wide open. i sure hope my fire lasts longer now.
Welcome Woodedacres. Should make a big differance in wood useage. Let us now how it turnes out.
-
well it made a big difference. unfortunately it wouldn't keep water at temperature at that setting. not to mention it eventually snuffed out the fire. i gradually began openingthe damper and am currently at notch 3 and seems pretty good so far. loaded this morning around 8:30 good fire wood consumption seems marginal and the water temp is coming up. another note i have the three speed pumps. what speed is everyone running?
-
NC recommends leaving them on high, makes no difference with efficiency..
-
Scott do you think you would take the time to answer a few questions on this stove? I am having a hell of time getting it sorted out. Me and my boyfriend are ready to get rid of it and we haven't had it running a week. i have a call into the factory. no response so far.
-
I'll try to help.... I've had 3 calls this week from nc customers, "not mine". But they all said the same thing you just said...
If you'd like to give me a call feel free, leave a message if you dont get me....
606-316-9697
-
Im at least glad to hear i am not the only one struggling with my unit (Woodacres)...I too am about ready to have some one haul it back. Wishing i would have purchased a Central Boiler at this point. I have played with about every setting i know to play with and am getting lousy burn times as well as wide temp swings. I can only get boiler temps up with the damper wide open, i am getting initial temp up to 190 (have my aquastat turned up) and within 8 hours firebox is empty and temp is back down to 120. If I close up the damper, my initial temps never get up high enough and i still get lousy burn times. I only get feedback that my wood isnt dry enough. My dealer has been working hard to try to get to the bottom of it, but not much luck. Any thoughts? NCB-175
-
BTW..for some background...I purchased a Natures Comfort NCB 175 unit just before Thanksgiving. Heating a 2700Sqft farmhouse (pretty well insulated with fairly new windows) and running through a Burnham 121mbh Oil boiler system and heating a 40 gal water heater. I was hoping to someday run a second loop to a workshop but at this rate I see no way that could happen. Im only running underground 85' or so to the house.
I am routinely running through two short bed pickup loads of oak/maple in one weeks time with ambient temps varying from 40's down to the teens this week....and generally dont have sufficient hot water when doing so.
-
This makes 4 very similar stories this week alone, I talked to wooded acres earlier. If more air is giving you a more roaring fire that's a prett good sign that your wood isn't seasoned. A good moisture meter will help you see this... Wood that isn't allowed to season and stayed covered can have moisture content of 40%... That's instantly killing half of the Woods bur value, down to around 4500 per pound... Then figure your stove is only 50-60 % efficient and you'll see your only getting 3000 btu per pound from your wood
-
I have a 175 installed in 2009. Mine is older model and i understand they have made a lot of changes. I heat roughly 3600 sq. ft & 52gal DHW, basement heated to 70 and up stairs to 73. Thats about all mine can handle to. Fill twice a day unless we get into single digets then have to add a few extra pieces. You might do a search for some older threads where damper settings was discussed on newer models.
I Burn around 51/2 cords of wood a year from october to late march all as been seasoned around 2 years. Once you get your dampers adjusted you will probably see a differance in your stove if you are burning seasoned wood.
Best Regards
Mike
-
A thousand thanks to Scott for speaking with me and giving me an education on wood moisture and its importance in stoves. I have been online with my stove Since this last Monday. Yes terrible burn times, burning wood like it's cardboard. I noticed creosote beyond belief already. all indicators of down right terrible wood. Can't keep water up to temp. Well fortunately i bought a coal unit and went this morning and bought 1/2 ton of high grade anthracite. Dealer happened to be an acquaintance of mine. hooked me up with a very forgiving grade of coal. I am right now burning straight coal. hope it works.. draft is 2/3 open. i will cut back when i am convinced it is warranted
-
A thousand thanks to Scott for speaking with me and giving me an education on wood moisture and its importance in stoves. I have been online with my stove Since this last Monday. Yes terrible burn times, burning wood like it's cardboard. I noticed creosote beyond belief already. all indicators of down right terrible wood. Can't keep water up to temp. Well fortunately i bought a coal unit and went this morning and bought 1/2 ton of high grade anthracite. Dealer happened to be an acquaintance of mine. hooked me up with a very forgiving grade of coal. I am right now burning straight coal. hope it works.. draft is 2/3 open. i will cut back when i am convinced it is warranted
Don't be afraid to mix up your slabs and coal together.... It works well
-
Harbor freight has moisture meter's and there only $12.99. I bought one early this season. It is an awesome tool that everyone who heats with wood should purchase. You will learn quickly as I and many others have that there are many species of wood that will not season in a years time. White Oak, for example, in my area with my climate takes at least two years to get down to 15%-25% moisture content. The slab wood I've been getting has been at least 25%, and sometimes up to 45% mc.
Seasoned wood = better efficiency, more heat, lower wood consumption, longer burn times, less smoke, happier neighbors :)
Spot on diagnosis, Scott. You da man :thumbup:
-
anybody want to buy a 1 week old ncb250?
-
problem i have now coal burns awesome but when the boiler reached temperature the blower kicked off naturally and when the demand came back coal wouldn't reignite. i swear i hate this thing. it was my concern going to bed. woke up at 3am to a cold house..
-
Can you buy some well seasoned wood from a supplier in your area? Or maybe go to a friends place and borrow some just to see for sure that high moisture content is at issue here?
I feel for you. When I built my boiler years ago, I installed it in mid October, fired it up, and I was thoroughly impressed. I burned some seasoned campfire wood I'd had laying around, with the intent of cutting more wood on the weekend. That Saturday it got cold, and I brought home some white oak(live) that had been leaning over a hay field and causing problems with farm equipment. I could barely keep that stuff lit, and when it was burning, it didn't give off much heat. My neighbor came over, opened my firebox door, saw the water sizzling out of the ends, and told me to go and grab a load of his wood and just replace it with my oak. What a difference. Only hours earlier I'd been second guessing myself on my burn chamber design, and now hours later, I felt like I deserved some type of thermal engineering award.
Hang in there. I've heard that 250 is a pretty descent machine. You will figure it out.
-
problem i have now coal burns awesome but when the boiler reached temperature the blower kicked off naturally and when the demand came back coal wouldn't reignite. i swear i hate this thing. it was my concern going to bed. woke up at 3am to a cold house..
Try changing the temp to a 5* difference between your high and low setting on your blower.
-
:post: Bull, that is an excellent idea :thumbup:
-
just did it. it was at 10°
currently have a bed of anthracite about 4" thick. burning white/orange on bottom red near the top. subtle blue flame here and there. boiler set at 180°. need to run it that high because i have baseboard radiant heat with hot water boiler in the house. it needs to see 175° to open the valve. wood boiler is currently at 165°. it was 90° when i started at 3am when i noticed i had a flame out. it is currently 9:30am
-
by the way. I can't thank all of you enough for all the feedback and input. i am just getting very discouraged right now. i had a great burn last night around 9p. noticed i was close to the aquastat kicking off and said to myself"i sure hope those embers re-light when we demand heat again". well got my answer at 3am
-
oh! draft damper door set at 2nd notch
-
Hey wooded, coal seems go require more air than wood.... If you mix with wood it seems to help the re-igniting process... Also setting your diff closer will help that as well....
Now as far as that thermostatic valve set at 175, I'd try to turn it down about 15 degrees to give u at least some wiggle room
-
if i set it any lower than i am it will not open the valve on the inside boiler. house just will not warm up. i have the thermostat in the house at 70 and my owb just went down to 145. blower on the furnace runs continously. so far this thing is a real POS. if open the draft it will burn nice and hot but get about 3 hours burn time. totally unacceptable..
-
Only 3-4 hours even with coal????
It's really not even cold compared to normal for this time of year, I agree thats unacceptable.
-
okay. as of 2pm today. neighbor down the road brought down some seasoned wood mostly maple. so dry it is actually cracking. loaded up the stove sprinkled a little anthracite in. just checked the stove 10 minutes ago owb is at 145° down from 150° when i started. open the door roaring fire. damper at 2nd notch. my house boiler down to 125°. i will be on propane in a few hours. only 31° outside. i am so confused as to why i cannot produce heat. best luck i had today was straight anthracite. got up to 165° but not for long...smh :bash: :bash: :bash:
-
okay what roll does chimney length play? only thing i haven't messed with
gonna give it a couple hours and see what is up. hopefully the temperature. well been up since 3am nursing this turd. gonna try and rest a bit.
-
okay what roll does chimney length play? only thing i haven't messed with
gonna give it a couple hours and see what is up. hopefully the temperature. well been up since 3am nursing this turd. gonna try and rest a bit.
Chimney length has absolutely nothing to do with it... It has a fan that supplies the air so getting draw from a chimney means nothing... A long chimney can create problems though, I've seen folks with 15 foot chimneys have overheating problems because it can exaggerate a very small air leak.
However, if you can't get your temp up to 180 or boiling for that matter, using coal in 30 degree weather, then it's useless.......
-
If your fan is on and you open the door do you see a roaring fire or lazy ??
-
first opened it is cozy burn then after say 15sec. it begins to flare up. owb finally generating heat. came up to 165°
-
Sounds like you need more air, can you open the blower damper a little more? Also what size blower do you have?
I think Scott was talking about turning down the temp on the valve on the inside boiler.
-
Wood acres... Can I ask if you have applied skirting around your unit? We are still scratching heads with very similar issues on my 175. Does anyone know what kind of efficiency losses can be attributed to leaving the owb open underneath?
-
okay it is now 10 till 6. my wood is half gone however the boiler is up to 175°. at this rate gonna be loading every 6 to 8 hours. mixture of split aged hardwood and anthracite. draft on notch two. gotta a 2500 sq ft home with a boiler rated for 5000+ sq. ft. i thought i was overkill enough. gonna try cutting the draft back to 1st notch but not till tomorrow. you know i wasn't expecting a miracle when NC told me the burn times but i never expected 25% of what they said it should do. i can't even go to work and have a fire to stoke when i get home. i am sure it will be out after 11 hrs away from it
-
Bull i suppose i could turn the inside boiler down and wouldn't i just burn more wood with more air?
Kart. No skirt
-
What do you have for insulated pex going into your home?
-
I experimented with nc stoves.. Insulating the bottom and skirting and not, couldnt tell it made any difference...
Marty, he has great line!! 5 wrap from badger!
Yea I was referring to the valve on the inside boiler down to 160....
Wooded, if you open the door and it then flares up, you def need more air! You should not be able to stand in front of the door with the fan on if it's running properly. I'd move the air slider to like notch 4! You get more efficient burns with a hotter fire, and if you see it burns better with the door open that's a sure Indicator your fire is air starved and very inefficient!
Coal requires more air too! That's why I say open her on up, if you have a proper fire and you open the door it should be roaring and leaping out the door at ya!!
-
Wooded, I also want to add that with your stove working properly it shouldnt take but a few minutes to raise 10 degrees in this kind of weather... I'd say you should see the temp raise 1 degree per minute in this weather
-
5 wrap
-
Scott I am headed out at 9 to try and make it through the night. i can give you a call tomorrow. is there any time better than another?
-
I'll have my cell with me but will be in and out of coverage all day. Just call and leave a msg and if I'm unavailable I'll get back to ya...
Call up NC tomorrow... You don't have to tell them you've been asking me but just ask them what is wrong, just curious to what they'll say
-
I haven't read every post but are you getting much smoke out the chimney? You should be able to get it set so it can hardly be seen. More air doesn't necessarily mean you will use more wood. You want it to heat up fast and then idle. If you have much creosote built up it will cause heat loss up the chimney also.
My brother has the air wide open on his NCB250 and can go 24 hours on a filling. I think his house is at least 2500 sq ft.
-
RSI, i get a little smoke when i first put wood in it. bu clear in about 15 minutes. last night when i loaded actually had roaring flame out the chimney with the door open.goes right away with it closed. i don't have any added chimney right now. i am over 1/2 mile from my closest neighbor and the prevailing wind blows away from my house so didn't feel the need unless it was critical to burn times. I think Scott has added dramatically in his advise. i was unaware of the actual temp setting of my inside boiler. well when Scott and Bull concurred that i needed to turn it down i became aware that my hvac guy is a tool. we bought this house last February and when we moved in the frist month we burned up almost 950.00 in propane at roughly 2.25 a gallon. so i called him out. been a friend of the family for many years. i told him i felt we were using too much propane he agreed and did a clean and check. said the boiler burn was at roughly 83% and that was very good. well after my discovery yesterday he didn't look at the temperature of the water. the aquastat was set at 192°. yep 192°. well i spoke to my father who ran a boiler from 1953 till about 1995. he said that is nuts. said we never ran ours above 145°. asked what the boiler pressure was and i told him it was 25 psi. again he flipped out. said nomore than 15psi. said well i think you found your propane/wood consumption issue. so last night was the first night we made it all the way through. i am barely gonna make 12 hrs but a far cry from 3 to 6 hrs. still using a mix of hard dry wood and anthracite. would love to load once a day but 12hrs... i"ll take it for now
-
I couldn't figure out why your boiler was set so high either... We'll just have to wait and see what effects this has on it..
-
Wondering if you figured anything out yet wooded?
You said you used 950 in propane in a month??? It wouldn't make a huge difference if your boiler was at 150 vs 190. All that heat was going somewhere?
How well is your home insulated?
-
it made a huge difference in my wood consumption. older part of the house was built in the mid 80's. it is square cut log home. about 8" thick. the addition was added in 2005 and it is very well insulated. it warmed up a bit up here in Ohio but i am looking at 16hrs on the last load. draft fan opened to 4th notch.yesterday went 12hrs on a half load. i am not sure but i don't think this stove is gonna burn that anthracite the way it needs to be. seems like it wants a more direct flow of air. trying to get some Kentucky lump. used nothing but firewood last night. loaded at 9pm. it is 8:30am and still have a descent amount of log left in the stove. kentucky coal 225 a ton here. ohio coal about 150 a ton. guy from supplier said kentucky burns much hotter and cleaner than the ohio coal..
-
Ky coal is 90 a ton here
-
i am sure it is shipping costs
-
Wooded where are you? I'm in Hocking county and have just found your posts. I've had a lot of success with wood and coal. Can get you hooked up with $75 per ton Ohio coal, it's what i'm burning now. Will help if I can. PM me.
-
i am in ashtabula county. trumbull township. burning straight anthracite right now. pretty happy so far. just takes awhile it seems to bring water up to temperature. i think it is because the fire is so low in the firebox with coal
-
Rick N Kristi. did you get my PM?
-
Yes I did, sorry it took so long to get back. I'm working 2nd shift and have not had time to sit down and type.
On coal; anthracite is a very hard coal. It has less heat than bituminous coal but burns cleaner and smells better. The trouble is it will go out if not fired regularly. When your boiler goes into idle anthracite will go out. Bituminous coal burns more like wood; it can stand the idle periods of the OWB better but tends to smell of sulfur and other gases when the first couple of cycles of the boiler get the coal really burning. After the initial cycles the odor is less offensive. Kentucky lump coal is the best bituminous coal I have burned, less odor better relight after an idle period and lots of BTU's. The Ohio coal I am burning is close and cheap to me. Mined in New Lexington OH. It burns well in my boiler but during warmer days it will also go out between cycles. I mix in wood on those days with the coal to help solve the idle problem. It also klinkers and cokes more than Kentucky Lump. My Natures Comfort 325G is not finicky about wood, she will burn anything well. Experimenting with your forced air is necessary regardless of what you burn. The better your wood (hard wood and well seasoned) will require less air. Green, wet, punky, or plain junk wood will require more air. Coal likes more air and really does well with air over the coal bed (that’s why the 325G does so well with coal). If I remember right you have shaker grates, this puts you ahead of the game. Try burning bituminous coal in the lump size. Grapefruit size up to soccer ball size. Kentucky Lump if you can get it. Learn more about coal here http://nepacrossroads.com/ (http://nepacrossroads.com/) Keep working at it, it took me a good year to learn my boilers secrets! You won’t be sorry! If it just isnt working out for you, I may take that 250 off your hands!
-
picked up some kentucky lump today. bought it from thompson bros. mining. we will see. filled fire box up to the fire brick area with coal through some wood on top.
-
Try wood on the bottem or mixed in. On top does not help with relite after idle period.
-
Where do you have your 325G set, both aquastat and air opening?
Thx
-
Aqua stat is at 165, Upper draft is 1/3 open, lower is 1/2 open. We are burning only wood now as it has been so warm here. When burning coal or a mix we open up the upper draft to about 1/2 or more. Getting 24 hours between fills using junk pine and anything we can clean up off the ground.
-
Could you describe your set-up...distance from house, type of lines, etc...? thanks so much!
-
325G, about 50' from the back door of the house, buried pex wrapped in insulation inside corrugated plastic pipe buried 4' down. Water to air heat exchanger in forced air propane furnace with return to boiler line running through a water to water plate heat exchanger post water heater. This heats all domestic hot water for the house. 2nd loop on the boiler goes to the shop about 50' from the boiler to a water to air exchanger in an old salvaged furnace gutted to be just an air handler.
-
thanks. do you have 1" or 1 1/4 " pex?
-
1", where exposed in the house or at the boiler it is foam insulated.
How is your set up shaking out for you?
-
I like it, but not getting the long burn times I would like. Granted, I have been burning bad quality wood, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for you. I need to insulate the 3' of return line at the owb and about 5' of return line inside the house, otherwise it is well insulated.
Also, what kind of smoke are you getting during idle?
-
At idle I get a little wisp of smoke. When the boiler blower starts and I have un burnt wood in the fire box I’ll get heavy smoke until the temp goes up enough to start gasification. If the "load" in the firebox is old, it will go into gasification very quickly. Make sure your ash door is sealed well, I all ways give it a little kick to seat the gasket tight. If you’re drawing air from the ash door when idle it could burn your wood quicker or worse, a big draft here will cause a boil over! Also burning rounds tend to help the wood last longer, I try to cut in 2’ or 4’ lengths depending on diameter and load the stove up tight. 6” to 1’ diameter seems to work well for me. Most of what I burn is old blow down. When I have burned green wood it goes fast!
-
great info. thank you.
-
Did you get this yet?
We are writing to notify you of an important update for any NCB-325G(-COAL) boilers that you have sold. It has come to our attention that sealing the holes in the floor of the control area with insulation or other material is required to keep large amounts of cold air from entering, causing condensation to build up in the blower resulting in failure of the motor or bearings.
To prevent any blower problems or failures, please contact each of your customers who purchased an NCB- 325G(-COAL) to make sure they cover and seal the holes where the underground pex comes through.
This is not required for any other model, only the NCB-325G or NCB-325G-COAL
This issue was not initially addressed in the installation manuals but is now added for any future sales.
Regards,
James Van Harn II
Nature's Comfort LLC
-
No I didn't get it. Thanks--any suggestions on the best way, or just "seal 'er up"?
-
Probably easiest to just use rigid foam insulation and split it so you can slide on either side of the pipe.
-
I had not seen or heard of this problem. My control side faces north and the bottom plumbing access points are currently open. I have not noted any condensation buildup or other issue with the openings. In fact the access door does not seal up so closing the bottom will only slow air circulation. It has never seemed to be warm back there even in the shoulder season. The bottom plumbing holes on my unit are currently covered with hardware cloth to keep out the little critters looking for insulation to stuff their home with. I will have to pay close attention to the condensation issues.
-
good idea on the hardware cloth, and you're right about the green wood burning fast. What's your differential set at on the aqua stat?
-
What I noticed with mine is, when I shut the draft down the unit would not build heat when the stat was calling for heat, when both heat exchanger were running. There for the the blower fan was running all the time . Wood consumption was high. Took the fan off removed the slide and sealed the fan mount to the burner with slide removed. Has been working great for the last week and the weather has been warm and the fire still relights just fine.
-
I may try that next season.
-
I may try that next season.
i have been running it that way for 2 weeks now it works much better than factory. Ohio weather has been really strange this year, and it doesn't overheat or go out when its 60 they it still build all the heat you need when it drops to 14 the next day befroe I had to adjust the slide back and forth to adjust for the weather condition.
-
Allis, the ncb with no restriction of air should be shooting flames out the stack if your wood quality was good. I ran one a good while and I never ever bothered the air slider, always had it open to the 2nd or 3rd notch, I had good wood and that was enough air to make it burn clean... If i gave it more air it didn't help anything
-
in the third notch when the weather was warm it blew the float off the top got to hot, they said it should
be in the highest position did that and at night when it was cold no heat plus horrible wood consumption
the fan ran all night tring to build heat. No flames out the top but i put 5ft of pipe on top to help get smoke over
buildings.
-
The adjuster has nothing to do with stoves overheating om warm days. Sounds like you had or may still have an air leak
If your getting smoke after the first burn your air is likely not adjuster properly, my nc would burn really clean, I'd just give it enough air to watch the stack quit smoking, I knew it was close to being right then
-
I had to adjust my door today. Saw a little smoke seeping out. Hoping that helps with burn times.
-
I had to adjust my door today. Saw a little smoke seeping out. Hoping that helps with burn times.
Sometimes they'll leak when the fan is on and the firebox is pressurized, if you haven't had overheating problems, I doubt you'll see any change in burn times
But you were due a door adjustment, shouldn't have to make one for a good while now.
-
Had to adjust my door again. Really need a lot of pressure to have a good seal.