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106
HeatMaster / Re: Cool reburn video.
« on: February 28, 2018, 06:20:25 PM »
That was interesting, makes me want one. How often does that refractory crumble apart?
107
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Average temp you keep your house.
« on: February 17, 2018, 06:37:08 PM »
80-82 for us, 75 at night. But then every room is a different temp with plenty of fresh leaking air coming in.
108
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Rubber heater hose?
« on: February 13, 2018, 08:18:09 PM »
There's always the silicone heater hose option for those who desire a lifetime material.
109
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Moving estimate?
« on: February 10, 2018, 08:48:37 AM »
Haste always makes waste in hindsight. Having gone the "budget" screwup route, my fix was to use 6" PVC pipe. The bends are expensive, but if you can use a straight run you might get out for slightly over $5/foot. I was able to cram two pair of 5 wrap lines through the 6"pvc (minus the corrugated pipe), it was a SOB at 35 degrees and by myself, but it's in the ground and sealed, and if the line were warm and flexible it may be possible to pull it all out and replace if needed - without digging. If you were set on using what you have and splicing, this is would be my approach.
110
Fire Wood / Re: Got wood
« on: February 07, 2018, 01:01:15 PM »
It's probably different due to climate, but in my area I cruise craigslist in the summer for folks wanting cut trees removed from their yard. There have been pleasant and physically draining experiences, but with patience and consistency there is more wood close by than a man can handle. In time the wood seems to find you.
111
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Extended Burn Times With Super Dry Wood
« on: February 07, 2018, 12:48:36 PM »
Not sure if I'm on the same page, but are "dry" wood burning woes solely attributed to excessive combustion heat going up the stack or poor combustion from chemistry? If the former, seems like a temperature controller and thermocouple in the stack would be a solution, then use a two speed blower or auxillary damper controlled via magnetic solenoid, or if you like to tinker use a 3 phase motor and motor drive with a PID controller for automated variable fan speed.
112
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
« on: February 05, 2018, 07:51:54 PM »
I've commenced framing on the building. Adding 4 walls and a couple doors isn't much more, I've already got $700 in the tubing alone 
Steel stock isn't cheap, not really a wood guy - especially for the application. So in the end I estimate $15 per sq/ft. A lot more that I first thought, but hopefully will be the brick crap house of smoke sheds.
Looks like I need to make provisions for smoke evac. while I'm at it...
Steel stock isn't cheap, not really a wood guy - especially for the application. So in the end I estimate $15 per sq/ft. A lot more that I first thought, but hopefully will be the brick crap house of smoke sheds.
Looks like I need to make provisions for smoke evac. while I'm at it...
113
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
« on: January 31, 2018, 05:52:16 AM »
Thanks for the pic, ideas, and experiences. After some hard searching it is evident that a small metal building can be had for slightly more than building materials alone to do a roof, so this is a strong option for me. Wood will not be stored in the same room, one spark lands in a pile of dry bark...
114
Fire Wood / Re: Stacking
« on: January 30, 2018, 04:38:33 PM »
Interesting thread, I remember one year I found myself scratching on the ground in the snow for burnable wood. Never again, made that promise and stuck with it. The walls of the truck shed may soon be stacked wood.
115
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Does anyone put a roof over their OWB?
« on: January 30, 2018, 04:22:21 PM »
I've been hard at work on my install and was pondering this. Don't think I've seen a single picture of anyone putting a roof or carport over their boiler. It seems like it would offer a lot as far as keeping electronics, wires, and insulation dry. Splash up from the ground already looks like it may be problematic in the long run. Also the advantage of having a covered area to maintain and reload the unit.
My NCB175 has no insulation on the belly, which seems bizarre, but I will be adding some. Now if that gets wet, then the purpose is null and void.
So it is apparent that finding a carport of such a small size is hard to come by, looks like I'll have to build it myself.
Just wondering what the general consensus was.
My NCB175 has no insulation on the belly, which seems bizarre, but I will be adding some. Now if that gets wet, then the purpose is null and void.
So it is apparent that finding a carport of such a small size is hard to come by, looks like I'll have to build it myself.
Just wondering what the general consensus was.
116
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Configuration advice for new system
« on: January 08, 2018, 08:03:48 PM »
300k worth of heat exchangers - ha! That sounds ridiculous! Maybe it is. The 200k unit will probably be fitted with a 3 phase fan to throttle it down via Eaton motor drive, the 100k unit will only have ~400 cfm being pulled through it, the shop - mmmm not sure on that one. I see where this is going - limitations are going to be in the return temps as I suspected.
Here is is the previous setup, it worked well, even the boiler that served as a heat exchanger for the hot water. The blue inline blower (rated at 440 cfm) dumps the hot air in the hallway floor, the center of the house and right under the plenum inlet of the air handler which is in the attic. The air handler blower can be set to circulate and it does an decent job at distributing the heat throughout the upstairs. The limitation is however, that air handler fan will only run in low speed when in circulation mode - it is a variable speed fan. Shame on those engineers
.
So the blue inline blower and everything downstream remains, everything else has been removed. The 200k HX will be mounted in the ceiling in the corner where the washboard is.
Thinking about it now, wonder if that blower could be ducted to suck air out of the 200k unit when the lady calls for heat upstairs. The house is loose as a sieve, most of the heat is sucked up the stairwell. It will be interesting to see how a convection-only system works.
The better half says all that "junk" is an eyesore, personally I could give a crapola what it looks like as long as it works.
You guys are really helping me out here, I owe ya one
Here is is the previous setup, it worked well, even the boiler that served as a heat exchanger for the hot water. The blue inline blower (rated at 440 cfm) dumps the hot air in the hallway floor, the center of the house and right under the plenum inlet of the air handler which is in the attic. The air handler blower can be set to circulate and it does an decent job at distributing the heat throughout the upstairs. The limitation is however, that air handler fan will only run in low speed when in circulation mode - it is a variable speed fan. Shame on those engineers
.So the blue inline blower and everything downstream remains, everything else has been removed. The 200k HX will be mounted in the ceiling in the corner where the washboard is.
Thinking about it now, wonder if that blower could be ducted to suck air out of the 200k unit when the lady calls for heat upstairs. The house is loose as a sieve, most of the heat is sucked up the stairwell. It will be interesting to see how a convection-only system works.
The better half says all that "junk" is an eyesore, personally I could give a crapola what it looks like as long as it works.
You guys are really helping me out here, I owe ya one
117
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Configuration advice for new system
« on: January 08, 2018, 01:02:03 PM »
oh boy... 
Wish I would have found this site sooner. Welp, no turning back on the line now, I've got do-over line, and enough to add a line to the auto shop on the far end of the house - in the future. BUT, this doesn't mean I can't cut that corrugated drain line off and put the wrapped Rehau line in 4" pvc pipe.
Fortunatly, the furnace only needs 29' of line to get in the house, and the house is downhill. And yes, there's enough line to make 3 runs and then some. I'll know enough about this when I get done to stop wasting money.
Wish I would have found this site sooner. Welp, no turning back on the line now, I've got do-over line, and enough to add a line to the auto shop on the far end of the house - in the future. BUT, this doesn't mean I can't cut that corrugated drain line off and put the wrapped Rehau line in 4" pvc pipe. Fortunatly, the furnace only needs 29' of line to get in the house, and the house is downhill. And yes, there's enough line to make 3 runs and then some. I'll know enough about this when I get done to stop wasting money.
118
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Configuration advice for new system
« on: January 07, 2018, 09:04:02 PM »Please correct me if I'm still misunderstood, but is there a reason you couldn't run a single pair of 1-1/4" Thermopex (actual 1-1/4" ID) lines from the boiler to the house with a single pump and serve everything from secondary loops? A BTU load like that is incredible- I think the poor boiler is going to be empty at all times. The way I see it, a single 1-1/4" Thermopex primary loop served with a 26-99 on high should yield you 12-14 GPM at 150ft total length. If you were to then add closely spaced tees in that primary loop for each HX with a separate 15-58 on each one, (water heater first, if possible) starting with all on low speed and adjusting higher if needed, you could theoretically feed all 4 from the same primary loop and only have to bury 1 set of lines at a fraction of the cost of 3 sets of 1". Perhaps I'm just looking at this the wrong way or not seeing what you want to do, but the picture I have in my head points toward primary/secondary.
This is an excellent idea, probably common practice in the industry I imagine? Will be brainstorming over this.
Reason being, two sets of underground line were significantly cheaper than one 1.25" set and still yields more flow. Dollar per gpm goes much farther - That was my thinking anyway.
Now that I've thought about it a bit, that 240k btu is over the top. So much for online calculators... Up until a few week ago a large wood stove was the main source of heat. On a cold day the doors had to glow to keep up. A chain of circumstances occurred and now the woodstove is gone - insurance company said I had to have a new stove "professionally" installed to be covered. The new stoves are fragile and of low btu output it seems.
So now it's a pair of heat pumps maxed out and and yes, it is cold in here, but we like it 80, not 60
119
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Configuration advice for new system
« on: January 07, 2018, 09:21:31 AM »
Thankyou gentlemen.
I wish a larger unit were possible, unfortunately beyond my budget, will have to make his do the best it can.
At the moment no pex lines have been installed, but was thinking about running two sets of line to HX #1 and #2, whether to tee them into the same pump or just run one pump per HX is what I'm uncertain of.
*All heaters are of the hanging, modine type with the fan.
3 sets of 1" line will be entering the house at the same location. How to configure , pump, and filter them is my uncertainty.
I wish a larger unit were possible, unfortunately beyond my budget, will have to make his do the best it can.
At the moment no pex lines have been installed, but was thinking about running two sets of line to HX #1 and #2, whether to tee them into the same pump or just run one pump per HX is what I'm uncertain of.
*All heaters are of the hanging, modine type with the fan.
3 sets of 1" line will be entering the house at the same location. How to configure , pump, and filter them is my uncertainty.
120
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Configuration advice for new system
« on: January 07, 2018, 12:38:52 AM »
First, much thanks to those who take the time to donate your knowledge and experience. I've got a NCB-175 on the way (and sacrificed dearly for it) and a lot left on the parts list. I'm having trouble arriving at a solid conclusion on number of pumps and loops to meet the heating needs, so any responses could potentially save me hundereds on the parts list along with wasted time so - thanks in advance!
Here is the application:
VERY leaky 2500 sq/ft house, 2 floor, and built in '72. Air handler for the heat pump is in the attic - I refuse to put a HX in the plenum (for a number of reasons, including my peculiar logic
)
I had hope for the NCB-175 heating the entire house on a 0*F day comfortably, doubt it will happen, but might get close. Of all the online calculators I get an average of 240k btu requirement on the worst possible day.
1. Primary HX, manufacturer claims 200k btu, it is a unit heater with big fan. This is overkill I'm sure, had plans of changing fan motor to 3 phase with an eaton motor drive to have full rpm control. This will basically be replacing what the wood stove was doing and in same vicinity.
2. Second, HX air will be pumped through the floor, center of house, the unit claims 100k btu, the inline blower pulling the air is 440 cfm and can't (doesn't need to be) changed.
3. Third, domestic hot water,, already configured in an unorthodox (but proven effective) manner. The details are probably irrelevant, but it does have a circ pump and differential temp controller from previous setup. A plate HX will be used along with another separate pump - water heater tank cannot overheat this way.
4. Low priority so lower performance is acceptable - shop HX. The unit I have is a 150k (claimed) and way overkill because the small (affordable) units have all been sold out, so I went BIG.
Being mindful of the implications that exist with the way I wanted to set this up, I see the status quo seems to be leaving the pump running 24/7, >150* return temps, and ~20* deltaT. There seems to be an obstacle with every good configuration that I've come up with, but here is my best thought -
1-2 and 3-4 are within close proximity to each other, and all entering the house at same location.
1 and 2 will need total loop length of about 150'. 3 and 4 will need total loop length of 70'
OWB feet are 7' higher than 1,2,3,4.
The underground pex I have is 1"
My math shows up as an estimated 12.5' effective head. Flow through 1 and 2 need to be 15gpm combined (according to my math). I was thinking it may be best to run a grundfos 26-99 through two loops paralleled coming off that same pump to feed #1 and #2. By some means a filter would be nice to add here.
3 and 4 may best be together on same loop (1") due to their location being within a couple feet and priority level the same. A grundfos ups15-58 for these?
OR
Would it just be better to run a 15-58 for #1, and another for #2, and another for 3 and 4, then another 15-58 for a backup (since they are cheap). Now how do you put filters on all these affordably?
Well, this turned into a book. My apologies. I will stay awake for nights to come thinking about this until the heat blows in this house again.
Big thanks.
Here is the application:
VERY leaky 2500 sq/ft house, 2 floor, and built in '72. Air handler for the heat pump is in the attic - I refuse to put a HX in the plenum (for a number of reasons, including my peculiar logic
)I had hope for the NCB-175 heating the entire house on a 0*F day comfortably, doubt it will happen, but might get close. Of all the online calculators I get an average of 240k btu requirement on the worst possible day.
1. Primary HX, manufacturer claims 200k btu, it is a unit heater with big fan. This is overkill I'm sure, had plans of changing fan motor to 3 phase with an eaton motor drive to have full rpm control. This will basically be replacing what the wood stove was doing and in same vicinity.
2. Second, HX air will be pumped through the floor, center of house, the unit claims 100k btu, the inline blower pulling the air is 440 cfm and can't (doesn't need to be) changed.
3. Third, domestic hot water,, already configured in an unorthodox (but proven effective) manner. The details are probably irrelevant, but it does have a circ pump and differential temp controller from previous setup. A plate HX will be used along with another separate pump - water heater tank cannot overheat this way.
4. Low priority so lower performance is acceptable - shop HX. The unit I have is a 150k (claimed) and way overkill because the small (affordable) units have all been sold out, so I went BIG.
Being mindful of the implications that exist with the way I wanted to set this up, I see the status quo seems to be leaving the pump running 24/7, >150* return temps, and ~20* deltaT. There seems to be an obstacle with every good configuration that I've come up with, but here is my best thought -
1-2 and 3-4 are within close proximity to each other, and all entering the house at same location.
1 and 2 will need total loop length of about 150'. 3 and 4 will need total loop length of 70'
OWB feet are 7' higher than 1,2,3,4.
The underground pex I have is 1"
My math shows up as an estimated 12.5' effective head. Flow through 1 and 2 need to be 15gpm combined (according to my math). I was thinking it may be best to run a grundfos 26-99 through two loops paralleled coming off that same pump to feed #1 and #2. By some means a filter would be nice to add here.
3 and 4 may best be together on same loop (1") due to their location being within a couple feet and priority level the same. A grundfos ups15-58 for these?
OR
Would it just be better to run a 15-58 for #1, and another for #2, and another for 3 and 4, then another 15-58 for a backup (since they are cheap). Now how do you put filters on all these affordably?
Well, this turned into a book. My apologies. I will stay awake for nights to come thinking about this until the heat blows in this house again.
Big thanks.