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[robdogtn]

I just ain't paying the crazy money for the Logstor, so what are the best choices next?  Rehau?  Easy Lay 5 wrap?  other?

New P&M 34-44 just arrived so time to get busy!

[MerrellRoofing]

Ther are plenty of other choices. But, it's like anything else. You get what you pay for.

[juddspaintballs]

Thermopex and Rehau foam insulated pipe are of similar quality and capabilities as Logstor as best I can tell.  Logstor is 1" ID where the other 1" variations are 1" OD.  You can step up to 1-1/4" Thermopex for nearly the same cost for the same flow capabilities. 

Don't fool with 3 wrap, 5 wrap, etc. They will fail in a few years and you'll either be digging it up to replace it with Logstor (or similar) or constantly feeding your boiler wood so you can heat the ground and your house.  You just invested a lot of money in your boiler, don't skimp on the installation. 

[robdogtn]

 

[agriffinjd]

Z-supply 5 wrap has been working great for me.  I'm only on my first season with it but it's holding temperature great.  The part that goes above the ground and into my garage has snow on it that isn't melting, and it's been below zero here.  If there was heat loss it'd melt.  I paid about 6.50 a foot if I remember correctly.

[martyinmi]

I don't have experience with Logster or Rehau, so I won't comment on them.
I did use Thermopex for 6 or 7 years, and it was pretty good stuff.
Last spring I made the switch to Z-supply 5 wrap.
I really don't think that the top 3 foam insulated pex lines are as good as Z-supply's 5 wrap.
The reasons that the wrapped pipes transfer heat better are kinda hard to wrap(pun intended!)your head around at first, and I am a horrible communicator, so I won't even get in to them.
If you go to Z-supply's site and watch a couple of Jeff's videos, you'll quickly understand what I'm talking about. One of the things that really made me think(pertaining to heat loss/thermal transfer)was the emphasis on having a thermal break.
I won't bore any of you with my redneck experiments that I've done with both the Thermopex and the 5 wrap, but I will relay my findings of one said redneck experimentation:
In a 95' run(one way), my water temperature entering my home is almost exactly 1 degree hotter with the 5 wrap than with the Thermopex.
My water returning to the boiler is just shy of 2 degrees warmer now than what it was with the Thermopex.

I made the switch for a couple reasons.
1) I wanted to see if the wrap crowd (the folks who carry the better stuff that is manufactured like Z-supply's)were blowing smoke.
2) I had a buyer for my used Thermopex, so all the switch cost me was basically my labor.

Watch Jeff's video's when ya get a chance. You'll understand why less ($$$) is sometimes more!
I had one of my hvac friends help me do a simple heat GAIN calculation(simple for him anyways!) using the few variables that have changed in my system, as well as the ones that haven't(such as head, gpm).
Based on how much wood I consumed last year(around 8.5 full cords) and assuming my heat demand were the same this year, he figured I'd save somewhere between 1 and 2 full cords.
 
As always, your results may vary.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,48429.0.html

If you'd like some more good reading, read the  thread I linked above and you'll have a better understanding as to why thermal breaks are so important in preventing thermal conductivity to the earth. Go to the 8th post on page 1, or the 5th page(last one in the thread) and scroll down to the 5th post.
 

[Sluggo]

I would chince on a stove before chincing on underground line.  Logstor or thermopex.  You can build a house foundation out of wood for less than concrete but what do you have in the end?  Don't be a fool.

[mlappin]

When I guesstimated all the extra wood I've burnt over the years, the extra time to cut the extra wood, extra fuel and oil, extra wear and tear on the chainsaws, Logstor worked out to be pretty cheap.


Not to start a pissing match, but the old houses, siding on the outside, lathe and plaster on the inside, the air space between the two was called a dead air space, or more technically a thermal break.

[atvalaska]

I would chince on a stove before chincing on underground line.  Logstor or thermopex.  You can build a house foundation out of wood for less than concrete but what do you have in the end?  Don't be a fool.

  x10 !!!  """"Easy Lay 5 wrap""""" I wouldn't use that crap for nothing  I paid like 20$ a foot .....add to that the fact that i'm so tight I could crimp off rebar with my but- h.o.l.e   

[cando attitude]

absolutely agree....pay for the better quality pipe.  I personally would not use a "wrapped" product simply due to the water intrusion concerns while in the ground.  The Logstor and Thermopex brands are very tough and use closed cell foam on the inside. If you did have a pin hole, the water would not invade the entire pipe unlike a wrapped line.

Cando

[Jwood]

A big part on the failure of the tiled 5-wrap is how it was back filled. If it was backfilled with rocky soil and not sand then you are going to have a better chance at having it fail. Don't sit and tell ever that if you have a 5 wrap its going to fail. You bury sharp rocks next to your logstor and it will be able to puncture the outside. Back fill correctly. Also I know people that have taken 2" pink foam board insulation and made a long box in the trench one was 7 years ago and he spent about 150 on his underground lines. Just don't want people lurking out there to think that $10-$15per foot underground line is the only option.

[mlappin]

The Woodmaster dealer in town tried the 2in foam board as a box thing, worked great until water got in, he buried factory pipe after that.

[Jwood]

Im not saying its going to last but his has so far he's getting 24 hr burntimes out of his heatmor 200 all I'm saying is buy what you can afford if you can afford logstor perfect if you can afford 3 wrap perfect you are still burning wood vs propane.

[WoodMOJoe]

I ran Badger 5-wrap through 6" SDR35 bell end gasketed pipe, and backfilled with 1" crushed limestone.  Came in at about $8.50/ft.

[mlappin]

I ran Badger 5-wrap through 6" SDR35 bell end gasketed pipe, and backfilled with 1" crushed limestone.  Came in at about $8.50/ft.