Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Portage & Main => Topic started by: blmike on March 26, 2016, 02:19:24 PM
-
I have had this stove all this winter,and if they would take it back and refund my money i would give it back.First i made a outside stove that i used for 13 years ,till the back rusted through.
-this stove smokes out the fill door no matter what i do,need a hazmat suit to fill the stove LOL
-the water level gauge is a joke,i have to remove the gauge to fill it,and it only takes a bought 3 quarts from full to empty.
-the fill door is made for left handed people,get dirty when my back end rubs on the open door.
-they never finished the corners in the opening between the two doors, open insulation is exposed to sparks
-have to open the back door to access the switch to shut of fan
-no back light in control ,need a flash light to read temp
-no insulation on back door
-to deep from fill opening to bottom of stove,makes it hard to fill with big wood.
-
I wouldn't give mine back just yet, but I have to agree with a few things. I only owned a Heiss heater before this and had no problems for the 5 yrs I had it where if you do a google search I was lucky I guess as others had nothing but issues. I am also in my first yr with my 28-40 and burned twice the wood as the heiss and this winter was almost non existent.
The smoke that barrels out the door is huge (thought this might be just me) this is fan on or off
I moved the bracket that guides the front door back some so it allows it to swing open a few more inches as my coat sleeve was constantly getting covered in ash from hitting the inside of the door, it's a little better now
I was disappointed in the way they left the insulation exposed in the lower corners
The recessed corners of the doors were not caulked which allowed rain water to get into the bottom of the rear cabinet, now fixed and dry
Plan on adding a light in the rear cabinet activated by a door switch and add some insulation of some sort.
Was also surprised with the amount of water from gauge reading low to full but can get over that.
Lastly the hinges on the back door broke the first week before I even had a first fire. Call and left a voicemail at p&m asking where to source in order to find ones with same hole pattern and never heard back or bothered to call them again I just bought some steel ones and drilled holes to fit.
I like the way it's welded and the way the air flow is designed from the bottom. The refractory and brick work along with the two sided welds were the main reason I went with it.
Am I sorry I purchased mine? Not really but is it as good as they say? Give me a few yrs of getting things the way I want and then ask me until then overall happy but still room for improvement
-
There has to be a way to fix the smoke it is the biggest problem for me,maybe a longer chimney?
The lower corners is just poor workmanship,also the bark and such accumulates on that ledge.
As for a light with a with a door switch is a good idea.
There should be a fill hole,so you can watch the gauge when filling with water.
It is well built just needs some changes to make it a lot better.For the price of this stove,it should not have to be re-engineered get it right.
-
I have had this stove all this winter,and if they would take it back and refund my money i would give it back.First i made a outside stove that i used for 13 years ,till the back rusted through.
-this stove smokes out the fill door no matter what i do,need a hazmat suit to fill the stove LOL
-the water level gauge is a joke,i have to remove the gauge to fill it,and it only takes a bought 3 quarts from full to empty.
-the fill door is made for left handed people,get dirty when my back end rubs on the open door.
-they never finished the corners in the opening between the two doors, open insulation is exposed to sparks
-have to open the back door to access the switch to shut of fan
-no back light in control ,need a flash light to read temp
-no insulation on back door
-to deep from fill opening to bottom of stove,makes it hard to fill with big wood.
I agree with each nitpick you list except the last one, but I just view them as minor inconveniences because the stove is burning wood really well for me (I have the next size bigger). I put foam around the pipes in the back, then covered with fiberglass insulation. The lack of a light is annoying only if I stop at night to check the temp without my headlamp on my head that I always where on a planned excursion to load it in the dark.
I think the reason it can smoke a lot when the door is open is because it doesn't just shoot smoke straight up out the chimney. It burns more efficiently with that return on the exhaust though, so I'd rather have it that way. Also, I don't get a lot of smoke anymore now that I'm using more dry wood than wet wood.
I do wish the door opened the other way though. Never dawned on me that that is why my left side of my jacket is all dirty.
-
Open the ash pan door, give it about 30 seconds, and then open the fill door. Shouldn't be much smoke coming out the fill door. Do this even if the fan is running. Just remember to close the ash door when your finished. I never turn the fan switch off when loading.
I plumbed in a valve at the house loop, to use to fill and top up the stove. Just need the wife to open and close while I watch the gauge.
Agree it would be nice to have a light at the front and back, however, I really don't have to open the back door very often. Every couple of days or so to check. . For the front, I installed a light on my wood shed the provides plenty of light on the fill side.
I found cutting my logs 32 to 36 inches works best for loading ease. Any longer and the big logs are hard to get in. I keep a bar close to help with the really big ones.
I am finishing up my second year, very happy so far with the performance.
Hope this helps.
Rick
-
WOW BL ! That's a pretty ripping review, I would agree on the door hinges but that's about all!
It is a very nice conventional unit in my opinion, perhaps you didn't think it through and now your sorry for your choice, adding a light is a very simple addition that most folks will not pay extra for!
-
^^^^
You seem to forget i ( we ) payed for the Cadillac not a Lada. And when i built my own stove i had none of these small issues,and you would think that a company that makes these to sell would have more pride to make it right.
This is what i would expect from a dealer ::)
-
BL - it's too bad you are unhappy with your unit. I have just about completed year three with mine. I am very happy with it but it is my first OWF so I have nothing to compare it to. Mine does seem to smoke out the door more this year than the first two years but this is my only complaint. The wood is dry ( split and stacked 2 years) but I did put in the newer bigger fire grate bricks. Does the wider grate brick equal less air coming up through the coal bed result in more smoke ?? I am going to say maybe, I'll have to test more next season.
Being a previous owner/builder I would think you would have known what you were looking for as far as options, fit and finish etc.
-
^^^^
I read all the reviews,but like most things people buy they will not admit to short comings in their purchase.Most of the things i have posted a bought may seem small,but should not happen on a stove of this price.There are alot of good things they have done and the stove in the most part is well built.The stove i made i only added water a couple of times a year,this one it is every week and more often at times.On mine i ran the intake for the draft fan in the attic of the stove,this way it got worm air and dropped the temp of the water far less.When i buy something form a stove to a motorcycle i will tell the truth of it's short comings,of coarse this is IMHOP. ::)
-
If you are adding water that often, you have an issue, I'm going to bet it is due to low flow and not enough mixing within the boiler, remember it is a dry base boiler and will run hot in spots if there is not enough circulation, although I don't work for them anymore, I still think it's a great unit and will be happy to try and help if I can!
-
i am using the grundfos ups26-99fc on #2 speed.Some have said to draw from the bottom and return to the top,i was planning on doing this in the off season.The biggest problem is the smoke,i have suggested to my dealer to add one more length of stove pipe.He said no as it would be worst. I can fix most off my ( or the stoves ) problems,but do not know what to try next for the smoke.
thanks Mike
-
An extra length of stack would certainly increase the draft and therefor probably increase stack temp losses but would perhaps take care of your smoke issues, perhaps a damper in the stack would help with your heat loss in that case.
-
I do wish the door opened the other way though. Never dawned on me that that is why my left side of my jacket is all dirty.
Yes my one complaint...
-
^^^^
I read all the reviews,but like most things people buy they will not admit to short comings in their purchase.Most of the things i have posted a bought may seem small,but should not happen on a stove of this price.There are alot of good things they have done and the stove in the most part is well built.The stove i made i only added water a couple of times a year,this one it is every week and more often at times.On mine i ran the intake for the draft fan in the attic of the stove,this way it got worm air and dropped the temp of the water far less.When i buy something form a stove to a motorcycle i will tell the truth of it's short comings,of coarse this is IMHOP. ::)
I have added a total of 2 quarts of water over 4 and half months use.... Might wanna check all your connections???
-
I added an extra length of pipe,and it did not help.I checked for leaks and have found none.
-
I have not added any water since I filled it in Oct. the gauge is sitting in the 3/4 full mark when up to temp and just below 1/2 when cooled down. You must have a weeping fitting somewhere to have to add water all the time.
-
Have not added water since start up in October.
Open the ash pan door, give it about 30 seconds, and then open the fill door. Shouldn't be much smoke coming out the fill door. Do this even if the fan is running. Just remember to close the ash door when your finished.
Thanks for this information. Really made a difference.
Small motion sensor lights work well and are easy on batteries. Lee Valley or Amazon.
-
Are you guys returning water to the top and drawing from the bottom.
-
I am pulling from the top and returning to the bottom. I add about 5 gallons per season.
Rick
-
Brian indicated to me that it would not matter how you connected.
I went with the manual.
I draw from the bottom left side and return to the top far right side.
-
I am not sure if the manual has been changed since I purchased mine in '13, but mine shows pulling from the top and returning to the bottom. This is how I hooked it up, as well as everything else such as grounding rod, thermostatic bypass etc. Went by their manual so if/when I have an issue and may require warranty repair there should not be a problem. ;)
Anyways mine has been excellent so far except I had to replace several grate bricks after only the second season. The original ones were an issue with moving around if you raked your ashes to much or tried to reposition a large chunk of wood and the gaps would open up on some and close somewhere else. I installed the new style brick with the built in spacers.
I have only added water once this season, a total of 2 1/2 gallons, but it is due again soon but will wait till it is shut down for the summer and after I have sent in my water sample and received my results.
-
Drawing from bottom and return to top same side. Right now I am only using one set of ports as my shop wasn't ready to go this year.
-
Going by these post,the ones adding water ( myself included ) draw from the top and return to the bottom.
-
Just read through all of this. My connections are good but I also add water. maybe a gallon a month, I have a valve plumbed into my line in the basement so nbd. But I would like to know where my water goes.... Mine is plumbed to draw water from upper right and returns to lower left. Slim why would the plumbing affect this??
-
Just read through all of this. My connections are good but I also add water. maybe a gallon a month, I have a valve plumbed into my line in the basement so nbd. But I would like to know where my water goes.... Mine is plumbed to draw water from upper right and returns to lower left. Slim why would the plumbing affect this??
Brain told me that there is likely hot spots from not enough circulation,and by drawing from the bottom and return to the top should help this.It does not make sense to me but i will revers my lines as soon as it warms up ( it has been -20c lots of mornings here yet ).
-
I am not sure if the manual has been changed since I purchased mine in '13, but mine shows pulling from the top and returning to the bottom. This is how I hooked it up, as well as everything else such as grounding rod, thermostatic bypass etc. Went by their manual so if/when I have an issue and may require warranty repair there should not be a problem. ;)
Anyways mine has been excellent so far except I had to replace several grate bricks after only the second season. The original ones were an issue with moving around if you raked your ashes to much or tried to reposition a large chunk of wood and the gaps would open up on some and close somewhere else. I installed the new style brick with the built in spacers.
I have only added water once this season, a total of 2 1/2 gallons, but it is due again soon but will wait till it is shut down for the summer and after I have sent in my water sample and received my results.
If you have added 2.5 gals it was to low and you risk sucking air if you draw from the top.On mine it only takes 1 gal to go from near the bottom to full.
-
Just read through all of this. My connections are good but I also add water. maybe a gallon a month, I have a valve plumbed into my line in the basement so nbd. But I would like to know where my water goes.... Mine is plumbed to draw water from upper right and returns to lower left. Slim why would the plumbing affect this??
Brain told me that there is likely hot spots from not enough circulation,and by drawing from the bottom and return to the top should help this.It does not make sense to me but i will revers my lines as soon as it warms up ( it has been -20c lots of mornings here yet ).
Ok so there is hot spot... what happens to the water??
-
This may be a dumb question. But to test this theory could you just flip the pump?
-
I think mine steams some out. And since it's small water capacity, it's more noticeable than other 300 gallon units. I pull from the bottom but can hear some boiling sometimes if the fire is rockin.
-
This may be a dumb question. But to test this theory could you just flip the pump?
If you just flip the pump, then the pump will have to pull water thru the entire circuit, expect a short pump life then if it even works. Would also be extremely difficult if not impossible to get the air out.
-
I am not sure if the manual has been changed since I purchased mine in '13, but mine shows pulling from the top and returning to the bottom. This is how I hooked it up, as well as everything else such as grounding rod, thermostatic bypass etc. Went by their manual so if/when I have an issue and may require warranty repair there should not be a problem. ;)
Anyways mine has been excellent so far except I had to replace several grate bricks after only the second season. The original ones were an issue with moving around if you raked your ashes to much or tried to reposition a large chunk of wood and the gaps would open up on some and close somewhere else. I installed the new style brick with the built in spacers.
I have only added water once this season, a total of 2 1/2 gallons, but it is due again soon but will wait till it is shut down for the summer and after I have sent in my water sample and received my results.
If you have added 2.5 gals it was to low and you risk sucking air if you draw from the top.On mine it only takes 1 gal to go from near the bottom to full.
Never has it gone below the halfway mark on the gauge. I also run mine at 190* with a 13* differential and never really noticed it steaming from the level gauge.
I do have a fill port in the basement but I fill it through the top so I know exactly how much treatment vs water goes in.
-
Just read through all of this. My connections are good but I also add water. maybe a gallon a month, I have a valve plumbed into my line in the basement so nbd. But I would like to know where my water goes.... Mine is plumbed to draw water from upper right and returns to lower left. Slim why would the plumbing affect this??
Brain told me that there is likely hot spots from not enough circulation,and by drawing from the bottom and return to the top should help this.It does not make sense to me but i will revers my lines as soon as it warms up ( it has been -20c lots of mornings here yet ).
Ok so there is hot spot... what happens to the water??
Steam out the gauge.
-
I am not sure if the manual has been changed since I purchased mine in '13, but mine shows pulling from the top and returning to the bottom. This is how I hooked it up, as well as everything else such as grounding rod, thermostatic bypass etc. Went by their manual so if/when I have an issue and may require warranty repair there should not be a problem. ;)
Anyways mine has been excellent so far except I had to replace several grate bricks after only the second season. The original ones were an issue with moving around if you raked your ashes to much or tried to reposition a large chunk of wood and the gaps would open up on some and close somewhere else. I installed the new style brick with the built in spacers.
I have only added water once this season, a total of 2 1/2 gallons, but it is due again soon but will wait till it is shut down for the summer and after I have sent in my water sample and received my results.
If you have added 2.5 gals it was to low and you risk sucking air if you draw from the top.On mine it only takes 1 gal to go from near the bottom to full.
Never has it gone below the halfway mark on the gauge. I also run mine at 190* with a 13* differential and never really noticed it steaming from the level gauge.
I do have a fill port in the basement but I fill it through the top so I know exactly how much treatment vs water goes in.
How can you put in 2.5 gal if the gauges is at 1/2?
-
Don't know? ??? Maybe there is a difference in the gauges from the early models? Also I sloped my pad very slightly so if I ever developed an internal leak water that didn't evaporate would run to the ash door. So with that in mind my supply line would be even closer to pulling in air if it was too low at 2 1/2 gals.
-
I agree the fit and finish should be as good as the boiler itself and Portage and Main is working towards and close to achieving that goal. The unfinished corners between the outer door and the loading door have been addressed, the corners are finished off on the new models. You can close off your corners with some foil tape. There are some other minor fit and finish issues that will also soon be addressed at the factory. All boilers smoke out the loading door when opened, as smoke takes the path of least resistance. Because of our efficient four pass design this may be a bit more of an issue than your average straight shot boiler, but I think the benefits of our design in wood savings out weigh any smoke. If you let your wood burn down to a bed of coals before reloading there will be very little to no smoke. I recommend this to all my customers and it works well. Many of my customers comment that they like the float which is more convenient and easy to read versus the sight glass on their old boiler. If you put a boiler drain in your loop near your domestic hot water tank you can fill the boiler from the boiler drain on your domestic hot water tank using a washing machine hose. Or you could plumb to a domestic water line and use a ball valve to fill the boiler. All Ultimizer boilers should take their supply off the bottom and return to the top to prevent excess evaporation. With one pump, take off the bottom left and return to the top right, with two pumps it doesn't matter as long as you're pulling from the bottom and returning to the top. Do not add water to the boiler unless the float is completely bottomed out, the guage does not have to be on the full mark. If you continue to add water it will expand the next time
the boiler fires and spill out the top, let the float find its sweet spot and leave it. I am right-handed but being an old guy with a bad back, I try to do my chores half right-handed and have left-handed to balance out my back, loading the boiler like a lefty works well for me. Many brands of boilers have doors that open right to left. To me, walking to the back of the boiler to turn off the fan is no big deal, if it is too much of a hassle for you, install a toggle switch on the front and you can control the fan from there. Personally I don't like a light on the boiler, it shines in my face and no matter the boiler brand they all get sooted up over time. I recommend backlighting to my customers, a good solar light with a motion detector on a pole works very well. I don't see an issue with the depth from the fire pot door to the bottom of the boiler, never heard that before. All boilers are little different and there is a learning curve, if you work with it, you will have a better experience. All in all I don't think you will find a better boiler. Feel free to pm me anytime with questions.
-
So straw bale. My manual from P&M said plumb return to bottom and supply from top. Has P&M changed this? If so may they should have let people who already installed them know and give a reason why they changed their position??????? I have a 3444 but that should not matter.
-
-close off the corners with foil tape.now that is a great idea-not (Brian sent me some pieces to finish the corners off )I have not tryed them yet as i have been ill.
-I can add water from a tap in the basement,two man job with use of phone.Why not have a gauge and a fill hole ?
-Yes there is less smoke if there is almost no wood left.When it is -30 c i for one will not be standing there waiting for the fire to burn down.I know what you are saying with the upper chamber,and yes i do think it has helped with the amount of wood i have burnt.It is very hard to get just the right amount of wood,it is easier now that the temps are much warmer ( -10 to -20 ).
-your own instructions say to draw from the top and return to the bottom.
-the depth is not a big deal,but i like to get the wood as close to the front as posible. Have to use the poker to pull the wood to me some times,again not a bogey.
-I have a light on my wood shed.What i need is a light on the controller to see the temp.This is something that should be built in not an after thought.But yes i can fix this also.
-
It could effect the circulation inside the boiler which might allow for boiling in spots, good circulation is key.
-
Took a while but the manual has been changed. I have been telling my customers all along the manual is incorrect and the supply should come off the bottom and return to the top. Not all boilers boil if the supply is off the top, depends on flow rate. If the supply comes off the bottom there will be less evaporation loss and a more even temperature in the water jacket. Although foil tape may not be ideal, it is an easy short term fix if you are worried about dirt. If you are filling from the basement I don't see how Portage and Main is different from any other boiler that you can't see. If you are filling small amounts of water, open the valve, count to five, close the valve and you should be good.
-
Took a while but the manual has been changed. I have been telling my customers all along the manual is incorrect and the supply should come off the bottom and return to the top. Not all boilers boil if the supply is off the top, depends on flow rate. If the supply comes off the bottom there will be less evaporation loss and a more even temperature in the water jacket. Although foil tape may not be ideal, it is an easy short term fix if you are worried about dirt. If you are filling from the basement I don't see how Portage and Main is different from any other boiler that you can't see. If you are filling small amounts of water, open the valve, count to five, close the valve and you should be good.
Yes you are right,but the point i was trying to make is if they had a float gauge and a fill spot i could fill it from a gal jug and watch it at the same time.
-
I got my 28-40 from Strawbale Dave and fired it for the first time November 16 last year. It is plumbed as Strawbale says ( did it all myself ) and for the first time last week I added almost 2 gallons of water to bring it back up to near full. So in 5 months time that is all the water I added. For the first couple months I burned more wood that I would have had to because I was over filling it. After I figured that out my wood consumption has dropped. This is my first boiler so I have little to compare it to except my neighbors both have Central boilers and seem to burn more wood + more smoke. Can't prove it but it seems like it. My only complaint is now I cut wood not for fun but because I need to and so far I am still OK with that. I got mine after much shopping based on how it is designed and built and have no regrets.
-
Took a while but the manual has been changed. I have been telling my customers all along the manual is incorrect and the supply should come off the bottom and return to the top. Not all boilers boil if the supply is off the top, depends on flow rate. If the supply comes off the bottom there will be less evaporation loss and a more even temperature in the water jacket. Although foil tape may not be ideal, it is an easy short term fix if you are worried about dirt. If you are filling from the basement I don't see how Portage and Main is different from any other boiler that you can't see. If you are filling small amounts of water, open the valve, count to five, close the valve and you should be good.
Can we get a copy of the updated manual?
-
Straw or someone else can you post a pic of the back of your and how it is plumbed. I was looking at mine it is easy to put the pump off the two vertical outlets coming strait down but it going to be tougher to get the pump in correctly without all kinds of 90's. I plumbed mine myself and it is all copper. Just need a reference pic of a good way to do it this summer.
-
I am working on getting an updated manual on the Portage & Main website, I will let everyone know when that happens. Will also get a picture posted as soon as possible.
-
Thanks Strawbale. :thumbup:
-
Is it expected to have a few leaky connections after shutting down the boiler for summer? I did not need to add any water all winter and after cooling down a couple of the shark bites are leaking. Crimped ones seem fine.
-
On shark bites and compression fittings, it is fairly normal to have drips when they cool, compression fittings should be tightened after they cool.
-
On shark bites and compression fittings, it is fairly normal to have drips when they cool, compression fittings should be tightened after they cool.
Yep, was a common thing to give all the original compression fittings I used the first time around an 1/8 or a turn after it had cooled off, so far none of my Logstor fittings have leaked a drop hot or cold.
-
Well winter is coming to an end,and i still have not got the smoke problem fixed.I added a length of pipe,made and installed a flapper in the fill opening.Nothing has helped,except letting the fire right out before refilling. That works this time of year but not so much at -40.I have not had to add water for a month now,do not know what has changed other that the weather and that should not matter. :-\
-
For what it's worth, never saw adding water as a sore point. When I see the level going down, I just crack the water valve open a second to add water into the loop inside the house. No need to fill from outside.
Next time I feed it more wood, if it's still a bit low, I give it a bit more. If I had to add 2 gallons all Winter, I would be surprised.
I think this is acceptable loss since I see steam from it occasionally just as the aquastat kills the fan when it reaches max temp.
As far as smoke, I don't think you can avoid it but can be reduced. I just crack the ash tray open to allow a draft if the fan is off. I have made the mistake of loading wood into it and forgetting to close the ash tray because of a phone call that interrupted my normal procedure.
So now, before I go out to load wood, I increase the temp on house thermostat to get the boiler hot. This reduces the smoke that would be sitting inside looking for the path of least resistance, which seems to be the door due to the baffle in the back of the boiler. With an active draft in process, it makes loading wood less of a smokey procedure. Sometimes I get treated to coals burning with blue flames. It kills me to add wood and drop the temp of the boiler but -20 temps require more fuel to make it through the night. Again, all makes sense to me and just had to learn its behavior and adapted mine.
All in all, have been very happy with my boiler. I am grateful for the help from many people here that have made the path energy independence from oil much easier.
-
There is a fine line between to much wood and not enough at fill ups.I can fill the water from inside the house also,keep an eye on the float,as it will fill with water,ask me how know.I have extend the smoke pipe 4ft ,made and installed a flapper in the door opening,helps some .