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1
Natures Comfort / Re: Fuel for thought
« on: January 29, 2015, 07:26:16 AM »
Thanks Wissel. Since our log splitter can take 24" that's probably what we'll cut to as
long as it's not too heavy.
long as it's not too heavy.
2
Natures Comfort / Fuel for thought
« on: January 29, 2015, 06:45:27 AM »
Just brought a new 325G online. First brought the in law apt (where we live) online 2 weeks ago
then the main house (where son & wife live) on last week. A question on another NC thread about
how often a 400G is loaded inspired this posting.
My brother questioned how much wood we're burning. He claims his buddy only adds about 6
pieces of wood twice a day to his CB boiler to heat his 3000 sq ft home with DHW. I visited the
fellow last summer. He buys unseasoned wood in the fall for the winter so I suspect the story
is not quite complete.
So I did some calculations and would appreciate any feedback. Here they are:
One cord of seasoned red oak: 24.6 million btu/cord
2000 sq ft home, 8' ceilings: 60000 to 80000 btu/hr (using 30 to 40 btu/sq ft)
DHW 30000 - 50000 btu/hr (estimates reviewing several heating sites for sizing hot water heat)
therefore consumption should range from a low of 2.16 million btu/day to 3.12 million btu/day
net consumption would be a high of 11.4 days/cord to low of 7.9 days/cord
We are heating more than double the example as we also heat a 1000 sq ft basement
and a 900 sq ft garage though these would have much smaller heat differentials.
We are seeing not surprisingly about 4 to 5 days/cord
Some known errors:
Boilers are probably 75-80% efficient so consumption would be higher
DHW shouldn't be 24 hr/day so consumption should be lower
btu/hr numbers are based on heating to 70 degrees in 20 degree weather
we've seen single digit nights recently so consumption will be higher
Our loading experience using mostly oak split 18 - 21" originally for inside wood burners
tossing into boiler results in loosely full load, next wood will be cut longer and split less
a single digit night will burn a loose full load in 6-7 hrs
20 degree night with 30 degree day can be loaded just once in morning and once in
the evening.
Any thoughts
then the main house (where son & wife live) on last week. A question on another NC thread about
how often a 400G is loaded inspired this posting.
My brother questioned how much wood we're burning. He claims his buddy only adds about 6
pieces of wood twice a day to his CB boiler to heat his 3000 sq ft home with DHW. I visited the
fellow last summer. He buys unseasoned wood in the fall for the winter so I suspect the story
is not quite complete.
So I did some calculations and would appreciate any feedback. Here they are:
One cord of seasoned red oak: 24.6 million btu/cord
2000 sq ft home, 8' ceilings: 60000 to 80000 btu/hr (using 30 to 40 btu/sq ft)
DHW 30000 - 50000 btu/hr (estimates reviewing several heating sites for sizing hot water heat)
therefore consumption should range from a low of 2.16 million btu/day to 3.12 million btu/day
net consumption would be a high of 11.4 days/cord to low of 7.9 days/cord
We are heating more than double the example as we also heat a 1000 sq ft basement
and a 900 sq ft garage though these would have much smaller heat differentials.
We are seeing not surprisingly about 4 to 5 days/cord
Some known errors:
Boilers are probably 75-80% efficient so consumption would be higher
DHW shouldn't be 24 hr/day so consumption should be lower
btu/hr numbers are based on heating to 70 degrees in 20 degree weather
we've seen single digit nights recently so consumption will be higher
Our loading experience using mostly oak split 18 - 21" originally for inside wood burners
tossing into boiler results in loosely full load, next wood will be cut longer and split less
a single digit night will burn a loose full load in 6-7 hrs
20 degree night with 30 degree day can be loaded just once in morning and once in
the evening.
Any thoughts
3
Portage & Main / Re: Western PA, BL versus Optimizer, 250 vs 350
« on: May 13, 2014, 05:21:39 AM »
Drove back through Maine from Quebec City once. It is beautiful. Might be tempted to buy a pallet of those famous
Maine ultra pelletized bricks or whatever they are called if we come up.
Maine ultra pelletized bricks or whatever they are called if we come up.
4
Portage & Main / Re: Western PA, BL versus Optimizer, 250 vs 350
« on: May 13, 2014, 05:04:34 AM »
Would love to attend Richmond but too short of a notice. Might try Harfford (if that's Connecticut) in Nov.
Hope to have a P&M installed long before that though.
Hope to have a P&M installed long before that though.
5
Portage & Main / Re: Western PA, BL versus Optimizer, 250 vs 350
« on: May 13, 2014, 04:37:01 AM »
Slim, found it. Thanks. Hope to begin the OWB journey in 4 weeks.
6
Plumbing / Re: Two zone heat
« on: May 07, 2014, 12:38:19 PM »
slim, I would like to know how to build that heater (for future garage use) even if ms1780 doesn't. Thanks.
7
Portage & Main / Re: 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 30, 2014, 03:32:01 PM »
I'll go by again and look. Probably next week. They're about 25 miles from here.
8
Portage & Main / Re: 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 30, 2014, 03:19:47 PM »
The dealer is TM Refrigeration in Lancaster county, PA. The owner is Titus Martin.
The salesperson is Rod High. My address is Mt Joy, Lancaster county.
Do you think this is a different dealer?
The salesperson is Rod High. My address is Mt Joy, Lancaster county.
Do you think this is a different dealer?
9
Portage & Main / Re: 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 30, 2014, 10:34:39 AM »
slimjim Thanks for doing that research. The name given to me and on their website
is Mr. Martin. I did talk to a salesperson, Rod or Rob, who may be a Mr. Cooper.
is Mr. Martin. I did talk to a salesperson, Rod or Rob, who may be a Mr. Cooper.
10
Portage & Main / Re: 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 30, 2014, 05:56:25 AM »
Thanks coolidge. They were about 10" apart from other units so I could only open the doors slightly.
I might have misunderstood the question. There were 2 back doors one at the top and one at the
bottom. I was thinking by double doors he meant side by side. If he meant top and bottom, yes there
were 2. If this means they are older, what changed that matters.
I might have misunderstood the question. There were 2 back doors one at the top and one at the
bottom. I was thinking by double doors he meant side by side. If he meant top and bottom, yes there
were 2. If this means they are older, what changed that matters.
11
Portage & Main / Re: 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 29, 2014, 04:35:33 PM »
Single doors. Did not note the air box. Which is better for these 2 items?
Thanks for you input.
Thanks for you input.
12
Portage & Main / 2 Year old 250's
« on: April 29, 2014, 02:35:40 PM »
We're still looking to install an Optimizer 250 this summer. Came across a dealer near where we live
who has 2 sitting on his lot. The plate inside says they were made in Feb 2012, though the rep said
they were 2013's. Does anyone know of any reason to be cautious about offering to buy on of them.
The dealer apparently did not cover the chimney and they are sitting outside. I noticed one had
rust on all the tube ends, the boxes stored in the back were water stained and the brushes rusty.
The other one seemed to have fared better. They both had brick slots. Do I understand the new
ones have steel? You input is appreciated.
who has 2 sitting on his lot. The plate inside says they were made in Feb 2012, though the rep said
they were 2013's. Does anyone know of any reason to be cautious about offering to buy on of them.
The dealer apparently did not cover the chimney and they are sitting outside. I noticed one had
rust on all the tube ends, the boxes stored in the back were water stained and the brushes rusty.
The other one seemed to have fared better. They both had brick slots. Do I understand the new
ones have steel? You input is appreciated.
13
Portage & Main / Re: Firebox size
« on: April 27, 2014, 06:37:05 AM »
You're right mlappin. P&M is probably being honest about usable volume. You wonder it the other
who use firebox volume as a sales pitch do it honestly. Allowing for the air intake, firebrick, etc.
the 11 cu ft is the usable volume.
who use firebox volume as a sales pitch do it honestly. Allowing for the air intake, firebrick, etc.
the 11 cu ft is the usable volume.
14
Portage & Main / Re: Firebox size
« on: April 26, 2014, 04:17:09 PM »
That all seems to be part of it.
Assuming the rounded top is circular and given the 28" width, half the area of a radius 14" length 30 cylinder is 9236 cu in
The remaining box (30-14) * 28 * 30 = 13440 cu in
(13440 + 9236) / 1728 yields 13.12 cu in, so the other factors must come into play
I only pondered this because some of the competitors use the 'my box is bigger than your box' line
Would like to thank everyone's input on this forum. We've pretty much decided on the 250.
Just need to sell the town home so we can move back into the country home.
Assuming the rounded top is circular and given the 28" width, half the area of a radius 14" length 30 cylinder is 9236 cu in
The remaining box (30-14) * 28 * 30 = 13440 cu in
(13440 + 9236) / 1728 yields 13.12 cu in, so the other factors must come into play
I only pondered this because some of the competitors use the 'my box is bigger than your box' line
Would like to thank everyone's input on this forum. We've pretty much decided on the 250.
Just need to sell the town home so we can move back into the country home.
15
Portage & Main / Firebox size
« on: April 26, 2014, 05:36:17 AM »
Just a light question, probably for slimjim, the P&M consultant
The Optimizer specs say the firebox (or firepot) size is 28' x 30" x 30" or 11 cu ft.
Isn't a cu ft = 12 x 12 x 12 cu in or 1728 cu in?
28 x 30 x 30 = 25,200 and 25,200 / 1728 = 14.6 cu ft
Are the dimensions nominal and the volume precise or vice versa?
Or are these Canadian inches?
The Optimizer specs say the firebox (or firepot) size is 28' x 30" x 30" or 11 cu ft.
Isn't a cu ft = 12 x 12 x 12 cu in or 1728 cu in?
28 x 30 x 30 = 25,200 and 25,200 / 1728 = 14.6 cu ft
Are the dimensions nominal and the volume precise or vice versa?
Or are these Canadian inches?
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