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Author Topic: New to Polar G2  (Read 9407 times)

DaveB

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New to Polar G2
« on: April 06, 2017, 01:17:24 PM »

Hi
I am building a home this spring and will be installing a Polar G2. I will have it going into the house for forced air and domestic hot water. I will also be putting a run into my detached garage with in floor heating.

I am having a hard time finding an installer in my area so I will be doing it myself. I'm not to concerned with putting the hot water side arm on or the water to air exchanger in the furnace. I will have my plumber and HVAC guys do that part when everything is being installed. The trouble I am having is determining what valves, manifolds, etc I will need to do it right the first time. I have the diagrams from the Polar web site but some of there lingo is still unclear to me at this point.

I believe the G2 has built in capabilities for two pumps right on the unit. I would assume I can run one to my garage and the other to the house. When I get inside is where the lack of information kicks in. I'm not sure how the system knows how to send heat to which unit/area. I see mixing valves, motorized mixing valves, circulators, thermostatic mixing valves, thermostatic radiator valves, diverting valves, diaphragm expansion tanks etc.

Want it right but don't want overkill.

I was hoping someone would have experience with this and be able to lend some guidance.

Thanks
Dave


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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 06:40:39 AM »

PMs have been exchanged, feel free to call or EMail any time Dave.
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mlappin

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 11:31:57 AM »

Itís not that difficult really, if you donít plan on burning year round just for DHW (domestic hot water) then it can be as simple as goto your water heater sidearm first, then from there to the furnace and back to the stove. For a little more flexibility or if you want the fan on your furnace to run all the time then you can either use a fan coil valve at the furnace, this simply bypasses the furnace heat exchanger with no call for heat and directs water thru it with a call for heat. A simpler way to do that is with a secondary loop using a small pump. You have one T in the line immediately after the water heater and a small pump, on a call for heat the pump is energized moving water thru the secondary loop to the heat exchanger and back to a T installed after the first T. Most prefer this method to using diverter valves as eventually the valve will decide to be troublesome.

Iím sure Slimjim will cover all this.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 03:25:08 PM »

Hi Guys..
Thanks for getting back to me. I have been doing a lot of searching on how to do this. It seems a little easier now that you have explained a bit. I have attached a PDF of what I have and a few questions on each. Any help would be great. Like I mentioned, I am not total up with the lingo so thanks for your patience.

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mlappin

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 09:01:03 PM »

Okay first one is easy enough, you need the mixing valve or anti scald valve as with a sidearm the water temp in your water heater can actually get much hotter than it could if your using a flat plate heat exchanger, say 170+ degrees. The anti salad or mixing valve helps to ensure you never get hot water out of a tap any hotter than what you set the valve for regardless of how hot the water is in your water heater. Iíve never seen it suggested to cut the tube off in the water heater before  though. Iíve also not seen it suggested to T your cold supply into basically the drain of the water heater.

Central Boiler really does have quite detailed schematics on their website.

Youíll only need an expansion tank if its a closed boiler, since Iím assuming like 90%+ of the outdoor boilers on the market Polarís are an open system, you shouldnít have any need for an expansion tank.

Lastly, if you go the route of using the valve at the furnace heat exchanger, then yes it will need 24 volt from some source to open it to direct water thru the HX (heat exchanger).

IF:

A: you donít plan on running your fan on the furnace 24/7 or

B: you donít plan on running year round for heating your household hot water

then you really have no need for a diverter valve at the furnace heat exchanger.

A more reliable way to do it is shown here using a secondary loop, look at the second picture to get a little better ideal about installing the tís for a secondary loop:

http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=8522.0



« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 09:23:40 PM by mlappin »
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 09:16:02 PM »

Your second PDF, I would skip the motorized valve altogether and go with a mixing valve that runs low enough for in floor radiant. I do take it your garage has in floor radiant in the cement?

Again, skip the motorized valve, they can and will be a nuisance eventually. I donít show a picture of it, but I used a mixing valve for my sidewalk snow melt and skipped motorized valves altogether. Something like this should work fine: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Sparco-AM102-US-1LF-1-Sweat-Union-Mixing-Valve-Lead-Free

You might want a valve that is adjustable even lower, if your floor is too warm I find it leads to sweaty feet for starters. In my snow melt I actually used this one except in 1Ē: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Sparco-AM101-US-1LF-3-4-Sweat-Union-Mixing-Valve-LF

DO NOT ever run boiler temp water thru your concrete slab, you will be a very sad panda.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 09:33:35 PM by mlappin »
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2017, 04:46:57 AM »

Marty is right on all of what he's saying, we used to have to cut some of the dip tubes if coming into the tank on the cold water side in order to get thermal siphoning but simply using the pressure relief valve opening solves that completely.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2017, 02:08:44 PM »

Thanks so much MLappin/SlimJim

Don't know why I am having a difficult time seeing this.. I don't understand what takes place and what is used when the thermostat calls for heat ?

I don't want to leave my furnace fan running 24/7 and I will not be using the OWB year round for DHW. I understand the mixing valve on the supply side of the hot water tank to mix cold water if the temperature gets to hot in the tank..

So, the boiler will constantly circulate through the hot water only to stop when the OWB is manually shut down ? Or are the pumps at the OWB controlled by the thermostat in the house ?

If you should never run boiler temp water thru the concrete slab, what cools it down, and how ? Another mixing valve on the return side that mixes the water that has already gone through the floor with water coming from the OWB ?

I have attached another drawing or what I think I understand for the house layout. Let me know what you think.
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2017, 03:43:44 PM »

Thanks so much MLappin/SlimJim

Don't know why I am having a difficult time seeing this.. I don't understand what takes place and what is used when the thermostat calls for heat ?

Simplest way is to use whatís called an aqua stat on your hot line from the boiler, strap it on the pipe/tube and set it for lets say 140ļ, then you run the white wire from your thermostat to the common terminal on the aqua stat. Then another white wire  from the NC terminal on the aqua stat to the W terminal in your furnace, from the NO terminal run a green wire to the fan terminal in your furnace. Water over 140℉ then the switch close and your white wire from the thermostat sends juice to the fan terminal in the furnace instead of the heat terminal, water under 140℉ then the white wire works as normal and the furnace runs just like you never installed an OWB (outdoor wood boiler).



So, the boiler will constantly circulate through the hot water only to stop when the OWB is manually shut down ? Or are the pumps at the OWB controlled by the thermostat in the house ?

It can be set up that the pumps only run on a call for heat, however with what little juice the newer pumps use this is somewhat pointless, some people leave their pumps run year round. On some boilers as well the pumps ar required to run 24/7 when it has a fire in it to help with mixing and circulation of the water.


If you should never run boiler temp water thru the concrete slab, what cools it down, and how ? Another mixing valve on the return side that mixes the water that has already gone through the floor with water coming from the OWB ?


Exactly, the hot from your boiler is hooked to the hot on the tempering valve, then the return from the floor is hooked to the cold, the pump is hooked to the outlet of the tempering valve. Of course the connections from the hot and cold are Tíd in so as not to interfere with the flow from the boiler, basically this is a primary/secondary circuit.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 03:49:32 PM by mlappin »
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 03:48:58 PM »

Marty, you are awesome!
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2017, 03:56:55 PM »

Marty, you are awesome!

I had a little time, bumped the owie toe and was turning an ice pack into a warm pack.
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 03:49:45 AM »

I saw that, it sure looked sore!
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 06:19:50 AM »

I saw that, it sure looked sore!

Better now not so much the bone but the nail is gone now so thats what sensitive. I did have it in a work boot yesterday morning when I processed the last half a dozen ash logs, hope to be planting that field in a few weeks if the weather ever straightens up.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 05:03:55 PM »

Thanks for all the help MLappin/ SlimJim.
 I think I finally have it.. The new G2 is ordered and I will let everyone know how it goes. Will share info and send pics too !
Probably be awhile though..have to start building the house right away, the OWB will have to wait until later in the summer.

Once again, thanks for the help. I may pop back with a question if I run into problems...
Dave
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2017, 06:13:43 PM »



Once again, thanks for the help. I may pop back with a question if I run into problems...
Dave

Anytime, we can always snap pictures and post em as well, you know what they say about a picture.
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