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Author Topic: New to Polar G2  (Read 9405 times)

slimjim

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2017, 02:52:50 PM »

That looks good!
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aarmga

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2017, 03:31:07 PM »

I can understand needing more but why not at that point use both?

Good question, I don't have an answer for that slim.  I could still do that. 
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2017, 04:01:09 PM »

If you want to heat the water before it goes into the tank then use a 20 or 30 plate heat exchanger instead. For that you would just put in series with the cold line and no need to tee into the other fittings.

Since I have 2 girls in the house with me I have found this is the best way to go.  My water heater kicks in if for whatever reason there isn't enough water used to keep it warm. The more the hot water is used the less the water heater has to run.  Sounds odd I know.  I ditched my sidearm because it wouldnt keep up with our hot water demands and went to a 30 plate.

Try turning your water heater temp down or turn it off. I doubt you will run out of hot water. The sensor is low enough that the water at the bottom of the tank can get cold enough to kick on the heater but the top is still plenty hot.
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RSI

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2017, 04:03:28 PM »

Does this look like I am on the right track...or not ?

Assume 80' from boiler to house and 20' inside.

Target drop in temputature = 30 degrees Farinhiet

GPM = BTU / Delta T / 500
GPM = 160000 / 30 / 500
GPM = 10.67

1” PEX Velocity of 4.22 ftps @ 11 gpm
1” House loop head = 100' x 2 = 200   
   Loss per 100' = 2.41
   Ft of 1” = 200'
   Add 10% for fittings and valves = 2.41 x 2 + 10% = 5.3 psi pipe loss
   5.3 x 2.31 = 12.24 ft head

Pump Requirements = 10.67 GPM @ 12.24 Head Ft

What are you going to have for heat exchangers? depending on what you use, it could add a lot of head loss.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2017, 05:14:14 PM »

Thanks..

These numbers are just estimates at this point, like I said I don't even have it installed yet. Just want to make sure that I am on the right track so that once I get the unit in position and know the exact distances I can figure out what I need for pumps, pipe, etc. I read somewhere that the target for heat loss is from 20 to 40 degrees. That's why I chose 30. Should I be aiming closer to 20 ? Just concerned about water going to in floor heat in garage could be to hot ? I don't know.. Could I have two different sized pumps, one for each loop ?

The exchanger for the furnace is 16 x 18. Haven't looked into the plate exchanges yet for DHW.
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mlappin

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2017, 05:20:41 PM »

You’ll need a tempering valve for in the garage regardless. Won’t be such a thing as too hot with the proper valve.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2017, 05:45:13 PM »

That's right..forgot about the mixing tempering valve ...there is a lot to try and keep straight for a novice.
So, it would be best to make both pumps the same ? 
The garage and the house will be real close to the same distances to the OWB, the only difference will be the pipe in the floor of the garage. Nobody answered that question. Do I count the pipe in the floor as part of the garage loop or just to the manifold for the radiant heat .
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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2017, 05:49:35 PM »

Refresh my memory, is the garage already built and has a source to heat it or will it be a new construction?

If it already has a heat source you will be using a flat plate heat exchanger to tie your wood boiler into the garage heat. In that scenario you will only count the loop directly to the garage and back since you would already have a pump in the garage.

To be perfectly honest this is the only types of radiants I’ve encountered, your insurance company may require you to have another heat source in the garage as a backup, think mini boiler or on demand water heater.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2017, 06:03:51 PM »

The garage will be a new build. The garage doesn't even need to be heated. Don't think the insurance companies here care..
I will have two pumps on the boiler itself. One for the garage and the other for the house. The Polar comes with an EZ manifold built right on the boiler with two adapters for pumps and two returns.
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slimjim

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2017, 01:25:03 AM »

Dave, I think you said that you were doing radiant in the garage slab, if so, your primary loop to the garage should run its circ constant and either a zone valve or additional circ should control flow from the primary loop to the floor, not a bad idea to separate the floor from the primary loop with a plate exchanger and expansion tank as well so that it could be anti freezed.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2017, 10:09:09 AM »

Yes, the garage will have radiant in the floor. It's not a floating slab though, it will have frost walls around the outside, plastic and rigid foam insulation under floor. Both pumps for the house and shop will run all the time. I was planning on a mixing valve in the floor loop controlled by a zone valve. Didn't think I could put antifreeze in the garage loop and not the house loop ? Would I need antifreeze ?
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slimjim

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2017, 10:22:21 AM »

First, remember that about 80% of heat loss from a radiant slab comes from the perimeter walls, that is the most important place for insulation and yes being from the North country I would certainly use anti freeze in the slab,
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2017, 10:41:47 AM »

First, remember that about 80% of heat loss from a radiant slab comes from the perimeter walls, that is the most important place for insulation and yes being from the North country I would certainly use anti freeze in the slab,

The frost walls around the garage will be ICF so there will be foam around the perimeter. So, you suggest running antifreeze in the entire system, 50/50 ?
If so, that will change my calculations for the pump a bit. The addition of antifreeze changes flow rates I believe.
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slimjim

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2017, 10:44:22 AM »

It does and you won't need it in the entire system, I would use a plate exchanger to separate the garage heat loop from the boiler primary loop and probably install the plate exchanger in the back of the boiler if there is room.
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DaveB

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Re: New to Polar G2
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2017, 11:21:08 AM »

I think I am slowing getting this...If I install a plate exchanger for the slab loop I would actually be creating a closed system for the slab right ? That's why the expansion tank in the loop and a pressure relief valve and another circulation pump too I would guess.
I don't know if there will be enough room in the back of the furnace with the two sets of pipes and pumps...don't know but, it could be installed in the garage too right ? The a small circulation pump on the floor loop ?
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