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61
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Protocol when come home after a long day water 98 degrees?
« on: January 10, 2017, 11:07:34 AM »
This used to happen to me all the time with my old boiler. Rarely got to 100 degrees because my hot water tank would backfeed my OWB (heat exchanger works both ways!) but often down in the 130s to 140s and a few small coals left in the ashes. I would load it right up with cardboard and newspaper balls, drop a bunch of smaller pine or fir splits on top of that, and then load it the rest of the way with hardwoods. Then get out my Ryobi 18v cordless leaf blower (which was bought specifically for this purpose), fire it up and get the thing lit. A few minutes of the leaf blower and you had a fire hot enough to forge steel.
62
HeatMaster / Re: G200 on the way!
« on: January 07, 2017, 09:29:53 AM »
Yeah, I was just thinking that maybe I could start counting splits. Gonna be bad enough just thinking about it. I burn such a huge variety of wood that I'd have to start estimating average BTU count per loading, taking moisture content and wood volume into account.
Just since Wednesday the G200 has eaten at least one piece each of balsam fir, white pine, black birch, sugar maple, ash, Norway maple, black locust, basswood, butternut, white oak, hop hornbeam and beech. Might have missed a couple but I know that's at least what I put in. All my stacks are like that, 20 to 30 different species. I'm just happy that I am burning less wood.
Just since Wednesday the G200 has eaten at least one piece each of balsam fir, white pine, black birch, sugar maple, ash, Norway maple, black locust, basswood, butternut, white oak, hop hornbeam and beech. Might have missed a couple but I know that's at least what I put in. All my stacks are like that, 20 to 30 different species. I'm just happy that I am burning less wood.
63
HeatMaster / Re: G200 on the way!
« on: January 07, 2017, 08:49:02 AM »
Another update: came home @ 4 pm yesterday and checked firebox, still full of wood just like the day before, water temp at 176*. I'm beginning to see a pattern.... 
This morning went out @ 9:30 am, lots of coals in the bottom of the firebox, couple large chunks of unburned wood. This time the unit was running when I went out there, although I was within 20' before I could see anything coming out of the chimney. It was a plume of heat, just a shimmer in the air above the chimney, not even white in color. Water temp was 176*. I stirred up the coals, filled the firebox and within two minutes of shutting the door and closing the smoke bypass damper, the unit hit 180* and shut off.
Noticed that the "creosote" built up on the firebox door was not creosote - it was the gray paint they put on the door, which had blackened and was peeling. Underneath was clean stainless steel. I suppose eventually all the paint will come off the inside of the door.
Also must give two thumbs up to the Grundfos pumps. After 10+ years of fighting with quality issues on Taco pumps, these little red monsters are dead silent and smooth. No more Taco for me.
Have to say thanks again, Richard, for getting this critter installed and operational on short notice. Hope to see you in the spring for a service visit.
This morning went out @ 9:30 am, lots of coals in the bottom of the firebox, couple large chunks of unburned wood. This time the unit was running when I went out there, although I was within 20' before I could see anything coming out of the chimney. It was a plume of heat, just a shimmer in the air above the chimney, not even white in color. Water temp was 176*. I stirred up the coals, filled the firebox and within two minutes of shutting the door and closing the smoke bypass damper, the unit hit 180* and shut off.
Noticed that the "creosote" built up on the firebox door was not creosote - it was the gray paint they put on the door, which had blackened and was peeling. Underneath was clean stainless steel. I suppose eventually all the paint will come off the inside of the door.
Also must give two thumbs up to the Grundfos pumps. After 10+ years of fighting with quality issues on Taco pumps, these little red monsters are dead silent and smooth. No more Taco for me.
Have to say thanks again, Richard, for getting this critter installed and operational on short notice. Hope to see you in the spring for a service visit.
64
HeatMaster / Remote monitoring of a G200
« on: January 06, 2017, 12:42:58 PM »
Wondering if any of you guys have set up some kind of remote monitoring system for your OWF that would send you temperature readings and other data to a smartphone or tablet? I know that Central Boiler has their Firestar XP system, but that was not nearly enough of a selling point to convince me to buy another Central Boiler. On the other hand, the technology can't be all that complicated. Something as simple as a temperature monitor that would let me know what the water jacket temperature is at any given moment.
65
HeatMaster / Re: G200 on the way!
« on: January 06, 2017, 12:35:56 PM »
Richard, glad to hear you made it way up to the border in good shape.
A few comments on the new boiler so far:
It's obvious wood use will be way down. Yesterday morning I had to leave for work before I could check the boiler, but Richard and Mike were still at the house and were ready to fill the firebox and add boiler conditioner, and take a water sample. I assume they filled it up before they left. So, yesterday afternoon when I got home (about 4 pm) I went out to have a look. Opened the bypass, cracked the door open, waited a few seconds, and looked inside. First think I noticed was a pretty substantial coating of creosote on the door frame and door. It was almost the consistency of glue. I scraped a lot of it off and put it back in the firebox, on top of the wood. Wood was totally charred but still whole, and the level was down to the bottom of the door frame. The water temperature was at 179* and holding. I added three small pieces (2-3" dia.) and closed it up for the night.
This morning, 6 am, went out to check it before work. Water temp still at 179*. I opened the firebox and saw that there was about 2" of small hot coals at the bottom of the firebox, and the nozzle (slot) in the bottom was wide open. I raked the coals around and loaded the firebox with new wood to about 6" above the bottom of the door frame. By the time I got done loading, the wood on the bottom had started actively burning. The creosote that was there the previous afternoon, had more or less turned to a dry brown dust coating. The overnight heat demand consisted of water for three showers, a couple loads each of dishes and laundry, and the heating demand for 4300 sf of well-insulated house with an outdoor temperature of 19*.
So it looks like I am getting about 24 hours of burn time with a full-to-the-top firebox. I probably won't do that unless I have to, I will stick to twice a day feedings. I suspect that my demand is currently too low for the system as it sits, but adding another heat zone in my house (which up to this point has never been used) and adding my garage (24x36 uninsulated) will probably be right on the money for this boiler.
In my best estimate, I am using no more than 30% of the firewood I was using last week with the old boiler, and the outdoor temperatures are lower. Once I add new heat zones, I will probably still be only about 50-60% of my historical wood use. I call that a WIN! Even if that wasn't the case, I really like all the features of this new system - the smoke bypass, the higher firebox door, the clean and accessible pump and piping area, the lack of heavy smoke, etc. Lots of good things.
Should have done this years ago.
A few comments on the new boiler so far:
It's obvious wood use will be way down. Yesterday morning I had to leave for work before I could check the boiler, but Richard and Mike were still at the house and were ready to fill the firebox and add boiler conditioner, and take a water sample. I assume they filled it up before they left. So, yesterday afternoon when I got home (about 4 pm) I went out to have a look. Opened the bypass, cracked the door open, waited a few seconds, and looked inside. First think I noticed was a pretty substantial coating of creosote on the door frame and door. It was almost the consistency of glue. I scraped a lot of it off and put it back in the firebox, on top of the wood. Wood was totally charred but still whole, and the level was down to the bottom of the door frame. The water temperature was at 179* and holding. I added three small pieces (2-3" dia.) and closed it up for the night.
This morning, 6 am, went out to check it before work. Water temp still at 179*. I opened the firebox and saw that there was about 2" of small hot coals at the bottom of the firebox, and the nozzle (slot) in the bottom was wide open. I raked the coals around and loaded the firebox with new wood to about 6" above the bottom of the door frame. By the time I got done loading, the wood on the bottom had started actively burning. The creosote that was there the previous afternoon, had more or less turned to a dry brown dust coating. The overnight heat demand consisted of water for three showers, a couple loads each of dishes and laundry, and the heating demand for 4300 sf of well-insulated house with an outdoor temperature of 19*.
So it looks like I am getting about 24 hours of burn time with a full-to-the-top firebox. I probably won't do that unless I have to, I will stick to twice a day feedings. I suspect that my demand is currently too low for the system as it sits, but adding another heat zone in my house (which up to this point has never been used) and adding my garage (24x36 uninsulated) will probably be right on the money for this boiler.
In my best estimate, I am using no more than 30% of the firewood I was using last week with the old boiler, and the outdoor temperatures are lower. Once I add new heat zones, I will probably still be only about 50-60% of my historical wood use. I call that a WIN! Even if that wasn't the case, I really like all the features of this new system - the smoke bypass, the higher firebox door, the clean and accessible pump and piping area, the lack of heavy smoke, etc. Lots of good things.
Should have done this years ago.
66
HeatMaster / Re: G200 on the way!
« on: January 05, 2017, 05:34:46 AM »
Well, it's up and running! Had some minor "traction" issues withe the Magic Liberty Bus 
but we got that all sorted out, yanked the old Central Boiler unit (which immediately disappeared in the back of a friend's dump truck), set the new G200 and fired it up. Wanted to use my old pumps (Taco 007) but they decided not to cooperate, leaking just as bad as the old boiler 
, so replaced with new Grundfos (which is a better pump anyway).
First photo is the old junker, second is the new unit in place (temporary until spring), third is the first firing (little smoke, mostly condensation from the cold water jacket and ambient moisture from the day and the road trip, fourth is the refractory chamber after the first load fired off. I just missed catching the gasification burn but the little coals are still glowing. If anyone is wondering about why we didn't put the new unit on the old slab - the piping arrangement for the old and new are completely different. I will be putting in a new slab in the spring, if I can't convince myself to relocate the entire unit to another part of my yard, next to my garage. The white PEX that we didn't hook up, goes to my as-yet-unfinished garage and will be hooked up soon. The G200 appears to be oversized for the current heat load but will be perfect once I have everything else hooked up that needs to be.
I'd been cutting and splitting all my wood to 20" and that's perfect for the G200 firebox.
Sufficient adult beverages were consumed following the initial firing and during the "monitoring" phase of the process.
but we got that all sorted out, yanked the old Central Boiler unit (which immediately disappeared in the back of a friend's dump truck), set the new G200 and fired it up. Wanted to use my old pumps (Taco 007) but they decided not to cooperate, leaking just as bad as the old boiler , so replaced with new Grundfos (which is a better pump anyway). First photo is the old junker, second is the new unit in place (temporary until spring), third is the first firing (little smoke, mostly condensation from the cold water jacket and ambient moisture from the day and the road trip, fourth is the refractory chamber after the first load fired off. I just missed catching the gasification burn but the little coals are still glowing. If anyone is wondering about why we didn't put the new unit on the old slab - the piping arrangement for the old and new are completely different. I will be putting in a new slab in the spring, if I can't convince myself to relocate the entire unit to another part of my yard, next to my garage. The white PEX that we didn't hook up, goes to my as-yet-unfinished garage and will be hooked up soon. The G200 appears to be oversized for the current heat load but will be perfect once I have everything else hooked up that needs to be.
I'd been cutting and splitting all my wood to 20" and that's perfect for the G200 firebox.
Sufficient adult beverages were consumed following the initial firing and during the "monitoring" phase of the process.
67
HeatMaster / Re: G200 on the way!
« on: January 03, 2017, 07:50:22 AM »It may have been the best hurried decision you ever made! You won't believe the reduction in wood usage if your wood supply is less than 25% mc and spilt in 4-6 inch splits.
Yeah, that's one thing that I have always done, in spite of the early assumptions that the old OWB's were capable of burning anything. Admittedly, I've burned a fair share of wet wood, oversize pieces or stuff that you should simply not put in a gasifier, but that's rare. I have always used a woodshed for the current year's firewood, and last year I finished another woodshed so that I should have at least three years of wood under a roof. The smaller shed holds six full cords and the larger one should hold between 12-14 depending on how high I stack it. I cut everything to 20" long and split so that I can pick up any given piece by the end with a gloved hand.
68
HeatMaster / G200 on the way!
« on: January 03, 2017, 06:54:16 AM »
Made a big decision in a big hurry during the week between Christmas and New Year's, decided to replace my old leaky Central Boiler Classic with a brand new G200. It arrives tomorrow!
Phase One will be a straight up swap with some temporary connections to existing plumbing and electrical. Phase Two will be in the spring, when I can pour a new pad, rebuild my wood shed, reconfigure my layout, and get everything the way I want it.
I am looking forward to not having to worry about the possibility of catastrophic failure with the new unit. Sadly ironic, the old OWB must have suspected it was on the way out and mysteriously slowed way down on the rate of leakage. Too late!
Phase One will be a straight up swap with some temporary connections to existing plumbing and electrical. Phase Two will be in the spring, when I can pour a new pad, rebuild my wood shed, reconfigure my layout, and get everything the way I want it.
I am looking forward to not having to worry about the possibility of catastrophic failure with the new unit. Sadly ironic, the old OWB must have suspected it was on the way out and mysteriously slowed way down on the rate of leakage. Too late!
69
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: OWB rusted out & leaking - time for a new one?
« on: December 31, 2016, 09:40:33 AM »
It'll get to the point where it drops below the ports and then it won't circulate. I know I have a bad leak right above my door, and another one somewhere near the bottom.
70
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Now's my chance - changing the layout
« on: December 30, 2016, 10:40:49 AM »
In another post I mentioned that my existing OWF is on the way out and I am looking into a new one. I think I already made up my mind that repairing the old one is a losing proposition. So this gives me the opportunity to rework my OWB layout (concrete pad, wood shed, supply/return lines, etc.) to get me a more efficient system. I am somewhat limited to my existing location as I have two sets of PEX tubing coming to the existing boiler, as well as the electrical conduit and a propane line (although propane will be removed). I have a pad that is just a hair larger than the existing boiler, and a 16' x 8' timber-frame wood shed sitting on concrete blocks next to it.
I am considering pouring a new pad which would have both the wood shed and the boiler on it, with the front half of the boiler being inside (or underneath) the wood shed so that in bad weather, I would still be under a roof while feeding and maintaining the boiler. It would also help to have the wood shed sitting on that same pad, so that I had a hard flat surface to stand on while feeding. Right now it's just a bed of wood chips.
Also, has anyone has any success with extending OWB supply and return lines? If I could extend my lines, I could put both the pad and the boiler in a better location. My old supply lines to the house are the old green 1" PEX inside wrap insulation and a hard corrugated shell. This is the stuff that Central Boiler used to sell in 2004-ish. The run to my garage is a very flexible white PEX in a white corrugated shell, from Z-Supply in Michigan. I can easily extend the PEX, it's the insulation and shell I would be concerned with.
Looking for best advice on how you would layout your OWB system if you had the chance to do it over.
I am considering pouring a new pad which would have both the wood shed and the boiler on it, with the front half of the boiler being inside (or underneath) the wood shed so that in bad weather, I would still be under a roof while feeding and maintaining the boiler. It would also help to have the wood shed sitting on that same pad, so that I had a hard flat surface to stand on while feeding. Right now it's just a bed of wood chips.
Also, has anyone has any success with extending OWB supply and return lines? If I could extend my lines, I could put both the pad and the boiler in a better location. My old supply lines to the house are the old green 1" PEX inside wrap insulation and a hard corrugated shell. This is the stuff that Central Boiler used to sell in 2004-ish. The run to my garage is a very flexible white PEX in a white corrugated shell, from Z-Supply in Michigan. I can easily extend the PEX, it's the insulation and shell I would be concerned with.
Looking for best advice on how you would layout your OWB system if you had the chance to do it over.
71
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: OWB rusted out & leaking - time for a new one?
« on: December 30, 2016, 06:01:19 AM »
Well, I appreciate your comments. It certainly is a crappy situation, I think the boiler's leaking even more now than it was a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately I need some time to get financing in place so I won't be able to pull the trigger today on a Heatmaster even if I wanted to. It doesn't bother me too much to put water in the boiler, but it's also something I could do without. I'm on well water and it's hard water, so that likely contributed to the problem. The upside is that is not really costing me much to continue on with the leaking OWB until spring. Extra wood and a few bucks a month in electric bill for running well pump and circulators a bit more than normal.
I notice almost all of you who have responded seem to be favoring the Heatmaster products, and at least two of you are dealers or distributors. Any personal bias aside, should I be concerned about support and service after the sale? I was on my own from Day One with my Central Boiler unit, all the dealer did was deliver it and sell me the parts, and they didn't even set it on the slab because they said it was too difficult to get there (it's accessible by anything smaller than a semi-trailer, so I called BS), but I had to get the crane operator, that was setting my timber frame, to place the OWB for me. I would like a little more support than I have received, and easily be able to get spare parts. I work as a maintenance director for a large health-care facility, so HVAC, plumbing for both hot water and steam systems, and electrical work is not much of a challenge. But, I like simple.
If I swap my boiler out, I think I may need a new concrete pad. The CB pad is different from the Heatmaster pad because my pipes enter and exit on the right side, while the Heatmaster ones enter and exit the back. Another good reason to do a little planning and wait for warmer weather.
My plan for backup hot water is to install a heat pump water heater (GE Geospring) in my basement, in place of my existing indirect water storage tank, so once the heating season is over, I can shut the OWB down and do it right instead of slapping another band-aid on the system (even if it's a brand new band-aid).
I notice almost all of you who have responded seem to be favoring the Heatmaster products, and at least two of you are dealers or distributors. Any personal bias aside, should I be concerned about support and service after the sale? I was on my own from Day One with my Central Boiler unit, all the dealer did was deliver it and sell me the parts, and they didn't even set it on the slab because they said it was too difficult to get there (it's accessible by anything smaller than a semi-trailer, so I called BS), but I had to get the crane operator, that was setting my timber frame, to place the OWB for me. I would like a little more support than I have received, and easily be able to get spare parts. I work as a maintenance director for a large health-care facility, so HVAC, plumbing for both hot water and steam systems, and electrical work is not much of a challenge. But, I like simple.
If I swap my boiler out, I think I may need a new concrete pad. The CB pad is different from the Heatmaster pad because my pipes enter and exit on the right side, while the Heatmaster ones enter and exit the back. Another good reason to do a little planning and wait for warmer weather.
My plan for backup hot water is to install a heat pump water heater (GE Geospring) in my basement, in place of my existing indirect water storage tank, so once the heating season is over, I can shut the OWB down and do it right instead of slapping another band-aid on the system (even if it's a brand new band-aid).
72
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: OWB rusted out & leaking - time for a new one?
« on: December 28, 2016, 05:41:22 AM »
Appreciate the response from you guys. I did not consider that there would be a swap-out program available, I figured I would have to scrap this old CB or otherwise try to sell it on craigslist or eBay. While I would love to trade up now, I think it will have to wait until early spring. I will probably have to pour a new concrete pad. My existing piping is fine, in fact the piping that I installed for my garage was not hooked up because I wanted to fix the leaks first, and is still brand new.
I will look into the Heatmaster models a little more. Also going to look at some of the other products on the market. I want to make sure that whatever I get, I can easily maintain and hopefully will last me longer than the existing OWF. I also have to look at finances - a new OWB is expensive and I doubt my homeowner's insurance is going to cover this one.
SlimJim I will contact you after Jan 1 and thank you for the contact info.
I will look into the Heatmaster models a little more. Also going to look at some of the other products on the market. I want to make sure that whatever I get, I can easily maintain and hopefully will last me longer than the existing OWF. I also have to look at finances - a new OWB is expensive and I doubt my homeowner's insurance is going to cover this one.
SlimJim I will contact you after Jan 1 and thank you for the contact info.
73
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / OWB rusted out & leaking - time for a new one?
« on: December 27, 2016, 01:21:40 PM »
Hey all, new member, first post here.
I've been heating my home (4300 square feet of well-insulated SIP/timberframe) with a 2004 model Central Boiler CL5648. The boiler was planned from the beginning as part of the home construction. It is a dual-fuel model (propane and wood) and it has been running 24/7/365 since it was first put into service in September 2005. I have 30 acres of wood and do a lot of scrounging on construction sites, so getting wood cheap or free is easy. I only spend money on equipment and fuel for tractor and saws. I also keep at least two years ahead by cutting, splitting and stacking in two woodsheds that hold almost 23 full cords. I go through about ten cords a year plus burn about 300 gallons of propane during the summer. During the winter I load the firebox about 1/3 full twice a day, during the summer it's once every two or three days. I have no other heat source, so it has been supplying my domestic heat and hot water for over 11 years. I also need to admit that I have not been the best at preventive maintenance, so it now has problems I don't think I can fix.
Last fall it started leaking. Just a little drip, nothing serious. Thought it might have been a loose fitting or maybe a pinhole. I let it go. As of writing this, I have to put almost 100 gallons of water per WEEK back into the water jacket in order to keep it filled. I don't know exactly where the leaks are coming from, but I know there's several. I tried some Hercules Stop-Leak in a desperate attempt to slow it down, but that did nothing. So for the rest of the winter, I plan on continuously adding water as a major band-aid until I can address the problem in the spring.
My initial feeling is that I should shut it down in the spring, take it completely apart and try to find a local welder who can either build me a new outer jacket, or repair the old one. I have a feeling that the water jacket is shot, however, and a new one would be the only solution. It would probably still cost me a few thousand dollars, but it's cheaper than a new OWB. Of course, I still have to worry that the rest of the system can crap out on me at any time.
On the other hand, because I live in Vermont, I am required to install an EPA Phase 2-certified boiler if I upgrade. I like the idea that I may be able to cut down on my wood use, especially since I just built a new 800-sf 2-story garage and was hoping to heat that with wood as well. Unfortunately, with the current system, there's no way I'd be able to keep up.
So, unless you guys can convince me that fixing up my old Central would be a better idea, I think I will be looking for a new OWB/OWF in the spring and would like some feedback from users here on what they think would be a good solution for me (what I should be looking at). I've looked at websites from P&M, Central, Heatmaster SS, and Heatmor. I have a Heatmor dealer fairly local, although he is nearly impossible to find open, my Central Boiler Dealer is about 25 miles away and is decent but only wants to sell parts and does not offer any kind of service. I don't know where anyone else might be located. I would like to see anything that I am considering, in operation, before I purchase it.
I've been heating my home (4300 square feet of well-insulated SIP/timberframe) with a 2004 model Central Boiler CL5648. The boiler was planned from the beginning as part of the home construction. It is a dual-fuel model (propane and wood) and it has been running 24/7/365 since it was first put into service in September 2005. I have 30 acres of wood and do a lot of scrounging on construction sites, so getting wood cheap or free is easy. I only spend money on equipment and fuel for tractor and saws. I also keep at least two years ahead by cutting, splitting and stacking in two woodsheds that hold almost 23 full cords. I go through about ten cords a year plus burn about 300 gallons of propane during the summer. During the winter I load the firebox about 1/3 full twice a day, during the summer it's once every two or three days. I have no other heat source, so it has been supplying my domestic heat and hot water for over 11 years. I also need to admit that I have not been the best at preventive maintenance, so it now has problems I don't think I can fix.
Last fall it started leaking. Just a little drip, nothing serious. Thought it might have been a loose fitting or maybe a pinhole. I let it go. As of writing this, I have to put almost 100 gallons of water per WEEK back into the water jacket in order to keep it filled. I don't know exactly where the leaks are coming from, but I know there's several. I tried some Hercules Stop-Leak in a desperate attempt to slow it down, but that did nothing. So for the rest of the winter, I plan on continuously adding water as a major band-aid until I can address the problem in the spring.
My initial feeling is that I should shut it down in the spring, take it completely apart and try to find a local welder who can either build me a new outer jacket, or repair the old one. I have a feeling that the water jacket is shot, however, and a new one would be the only solution. It would probably still cost me a few thousand dollars, but it's cheaper than a new OWB. Of course, I still have to worry that the rest of the system can crap out on me at any time.
On the other hand, because I live in Vermont, I am required to install an EPA Phase 2-certified boiler if I upgrade. I like the idea that I may be able to cut down on my wood use, especially since I just built a new 800-sf 2-story garage and was hoping to heat that with wood as well. Unfortunately, with the current system, there's no way I'd be able to keep up.
So, unless you guys can convince me that fixing up my old Central would be a better idea, I think I will be looking for a new OWB/OWF in the spring and would like some feedback from users here on what they think would be a good solution for me (what I should be looking at). I've looked at websites from P&M, Central, Heatmaster SS, and Heatmor. I have a Heatmor dealer fairly local, although he is nearly impossible to find open, my Central Boiler Dealer is about 25 miles away and is decent but only wants to sell parts and does not offer any kind of service. I don't know where anyone else might be located. I would like to see anything that I am considering, in operation, before I purchase it.