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31
Electronics / Thermostat wiring for oil as backup
« on: October 07, 2015, 07:33:29 PM »
Ok so I have gotten my new system installed and I am trying to figure out how to control everything with a single thermostat. So I have a water to air hx in a plenum with my blower. That is a zone which has its own pump to feed the hx, the pump comes on when the fan comes on.
Then I have my oil boiler which is on its own loop and pumps into the primary loop. The oil boiler power is powered through a Ranco 111000 which I have the probe on the incoming line from the owb and when it drops to 140 it makes the connection and lights up the oil boiler.
So currently I control the Fan and the pump in the plenum with a Honeywell RA89A1074. This is a Single pole Single throw. It has 24 volt transformer and switches the load via signal from the thermostat.
I would like to control the aquastat on the oil boiler with my one thermostat, the thermostat will call for heat and kicks on the fan and pump in the plenum as well as telling the oil boiler to fire which it can as long as the temp on the incoming owb water has dropped to 140. I tried hooking up the thermostat wire to both the aquastat on the oil boiler and the honeywell controller and the oil boiler backfeeds the honeywell control and causes it to run the fan in the plenum constantly.
My solution is to use a Honeywell R845A which is a single pole double throw control. One Pole you have to use line voltage and then the other pole you can use either line voltage or 24 volt. If I hook up thermostat wire to the 24 volt pole side and run it to my aquastat on the oil boiler will this work correctly? I just need to signal the oil boiler to fire or pump the loop when the thermostat tells the fan plenum to run.
Then I have my oil boiler which is on its own loop and pumps into the primary loop. The oil boiler power is powered through a Ranco 111000 which I have the probe on the incoming line from the owb and when it drops to 140 it makes the connection and lights up the oil boiler.
So currently I control the Fan and the pump in the plenum with a Honeywell RA89A1074. This is a Single pole Single throw. It has 24 volt transformer and switches the load via signal from the thermostat.
I would like to control the aquastat on the oil boiler with my one thermostat, the thermostat will call for heat and kicks on the fan and pump in the plenum as well as telling the oil boiler to fire which it can as long as the temp on the incoming owb water has dropped to 140. I tried hooking up the thermostat wire to both the aquastat on the oil boiler and the honeywell controller and the oil boiler backfeeds the honeywell control and causes it to run the fan in the plenum constantly.
My solution is to use a Honeywell R845A which is a single pole double throw control. One Pole you have to use line voltage and then the other pole you can use either line voltage or 24 volt. If I hook up thermostat wire to the 24 volt pole side and run it to my aquastat on the oil boiler will this work correctly? I just need to signal the oil boiler to fire or pump the loop when the thermostat tells the fan plenum to run.
32
Plumbing / Redesigning my system
« on: July 24, 2015, 05:45:56 PM »
I think this approach may be a little be controversial but I believe for me it is the best way to go. I would like some suggestions on my approach and my design. I purchased slimjim's Heatmaster G200 show boiler which I will get at the end of October.
So a little background. Heating a 220 year old 2800 sqft colonial in New England. I am currently heating with a hardy h4 boiler built in 1991. Current set up in the house is a lay down oil furnace circa 1985. I have a water to air hx in the plenum and have burned very little oil since buying the home 4 years ago. I have found that whenever I have tried to use the furnace it takes a long time for it to heat up the water in the hx before it actually can send some decently hot air out of the vents. I average around 12 cords Of hardwood from November 1 to around May 1.
Now to the new System. I would like to try and cut down on my wood usage and would like an efficient back up system in the house that I can go away for the weekend and it will keep the owb warm and heat the house. I have purchased a heatmaster g200 to install this fall. It should help cut down on my wood usage. Second thing is that I have purchased a 10 year old Weil mclain gold series 185k btu oil boiler to replace the old oil furnace. I plan on removing the old oil furnace and installing the boiler in its place. I will tie the supply and return lines for the forced hot air together with a plenum that has the water to air hx and the blower in it. I plan to run the supply line from the owb through a flat plate hx on the boiler then to the water air hx then back to the boiler.
So my original plan was to just tie everything together in a loop. It was suggested to me that I do things a little different but I am not sure if it is the right move. The suggestion was to put only the flat plate in the owb loop. Then run the water to air hx on a loop off of the oil boiler. That would keep me from having to heat the owb water up to 180 and keep me from having alot of standby loss when I am just running the oil boiler. Now my thought was that the oil boiler may be a little bit oversized for my application but not way out of the ball park. I figured that I would use the owb as basically a buffer tank when I run the oil boiler to keep it from shortcycling.
So a little background. Heating a 220 year old 2800 sqft colonial in New England. I am currently heating with a hardy h4 boiler built in 1991. Current set up in the house is a lay down oil furnace circa 1985. I have a water to air hx in the plenum and have burned very little oil since buying the home 4 years ago. I have found that whenever I have tried to use the furnace it takes a long time for it to heat up the water in the hx before it actually can send some decently hot air out of the vents. I average around 12 cords Of hardwood from November 1 to around May 1.
Now to the new System. I would like to try and cut down on my wood usage and would like an efficient back up system in the house that I can go away for the weekend and it will keep the owb warm and heat the house. I have purchased a heatmaster g200 to install this fall. It should help cut down on my wood usage. Second thing is that I have purchased a 10 year old Weil mclain gold series 185k btu oil boiler to replace the old oil furnace. I plan on removing the old oil furnace and installing the boiler in its place. I will tie the supply and return lines for the forced hot air together with a plenum that has the water to air hx and the blower in it. I plan to run the supply line from the owb through a flat plate hx on the boiler then to the water air hx then back to the boiler.
So my original plan was to just tie everything together in a loop. It was suggested to me that I do things a little different but I am not sure if it is the right move. The suggestion was to put only the flat plate in the owb loop. Then run the water to air hx on a loop off of the oil boiler. That would keep me from having to heat the owb water up to 180 and keep me from having alot of standby loss when I am just running the oil boiler. Now my thought was that the oil boiler may be a little bit oversized for my application but not way out of the ball park. I figured that I would use the owb as basically a buffer tank when I run the oil boiler to keep it from shortcycling.
33
HeatMaster / Waterford fair
« on: July 18, 2015, 02:22:39 PM »
Slim, any action pics from this weekends fair??
34
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Hydronic Air as a backup system
« on: March 08, 2015, 09:48:37 AM »
I have been running my Hardy H4 for 4 winters now and I would never be able to heat my house for the 1200 or so that it costs me in wood so it is great. But like almost everyone on here we are tied to these things every 12 hours for loading. I would really like to be able to leave for a weekend and be able to just burn a little oil and have the system run as normal without having to do anything drastic to keep the boiler from freezing or the lines from freezing etc etc. So my current set up is
1980s lay down style oil furnace in the basement(200k btu)
Hardy H4 owb
Two 1 inch pex lines each way into the house
1 24x24 water to air hx
1 sidearm hx for the dhw
The set up works great for just owb operation but if I try to run the oil furnace it takes a long time to heat up the water in the water to air hx in order to get any decent heat out of the ducts in the house and is very inefficient. What I think would work very well would be to remove the old oil furnace out of the basement and pick up on craigslist for a reasonable price a (175k btu I think) oil boiler. For one thing it would only take up a small area of my basement where as the old oil furnace is HUUUUGE. It would have a plate exchanger on it where the water from the owb would flow through that and then to the dhw and then to the water to air hx. It would keep the two systems separate but if you went away for the weekend you would simply turn on the oil boiler and leave. Once the water dropped down to what ever temp you had the aquastat set to on the oil boiler it would kick on and start heating the water in the owb and keeping it at temperature just like if you had the fire still going. Anyone else out there have this set up?
1980s lay down style oil furnace in the basement(200k btu)
Hardy H4 owb
Two 1 inch pex lines each way into the house
1 24x24 water to air hx
1 sidearm hx for the dhw
The set up works great for just owb operation but if I try to run the oil furnace it takes a long time to heat up the water in the water to air hx in order to get any decent heat out of the ducts in the house and is very inefficient. What I think would work very well would be to remove the old oil furnace out of the basement and pick up on craigslist for a reasonable price a (175k btu I think) oil boiler. For one thing it would only take up a small area of my basement where as the old oil furnace is HUUUUGE. It would have a plate exchanger on it where the water from the owb would flow through that and then to the dhw and then to the water to air hx. It would keep the two systems separate but if you went away for the weekend you would simply turn on the oil boiler and leave. Once the water dropped down to what ever temp you had the aquastat set to on the oil boiler it would kick on and start heating the water in the owb and keeping it at temperature just like if you had the fire still going. Anyone else out there have this set up?
35
Central Boiler / Used 2300 problems to look for.
« on: January 06, 2015, 11:56:41 AM »
I may be looking at a used 2008 2300. I know this was the first year model and it has upgrades available from CB but I can't seem to find any online links to them. Could some people familiar with the 2300 tell me what to look for as far as problem areas and what upgrades should need to be done to it. Thank you.
36
Electronics / Countdown Timer
« on: December 01, 2014, 06:07:14 AM »
I installed a countdown timer this year like Slim suggests in conjunction with a low temp aquastat to kill the fan when the wood gets low. It has worked AWESOME! My only issue is that the timer has failed and will sometimes get stuck(after a month of use!!!!!) This is the timer http://www.homedepot.com/p/Westek-12-Hour-In-Wall-Countdown-Timer-White-TMSW12HW/203675431#customer_reviews
As you can see others have the same issue with the timer getting stuck. What brand of timer do you use slim? Should I go to a digital one touch instead of mechanical? The switch has been located on the outside of the boiler inside a weatherproof electrical box with the wires being fed in through a hole I cut in the side of the unit. So the back side stays warm but the outside of the box is cold.
As you can see others have the same issue with the timer getting stuck. What brand of timer do you use slim? Should I go to a digital one touch instead of mechanical? The switch has been located on the outside of the boiler inside a weatherproof electrical box with the wires being fed in through a hole I cut in the side of the unit. So the back side stays warm but the outside of the box is cold.
37
Electronics / Continuous fan option
« on: November 22, 2014, 12:10:13 PM »
I am interested in putting an ECM motor in to replace my Psc motor. I would like to utilize a continuous fan option to keep the house at a nice even temp. I was wondering if anyone had any expierence using the continuous fan option with a Water to air hx. The evergreen Im motor goes down to 600 Cfm in low which seems like it would be to fast. I think at that speed it would heat the house above the set point. The evergreen oem motor goes down to 200 and that seems like it would work well but those motors are over $500. I would really like it make the house have less up and down temps. Any suggestions?
38
Plumbing / Apollo Pex Crimps cracking and failing
« on: October 31, 2014, 04:29:03 PM »
I started up the boiler last night for the year and had a major problem over night. Woke up this morning to the temperature gauge in the house reading 60 degree boiler water. I figured that the low temp aquastat had shut down the blower when the temp dropped below 160 to save the coals. So I walk out to load up the boiler and to my surprise steam is coming out of the over flow! I opened up the back to find that the low water cut off( I just installed this this year) had cut off all power to the boiler, thank god! I looked in the top and the water was down to the water cut off but not leak on the back of the stove anywhere. So I went in the house into the basement. I quickly found that the crimp connection at the side arm had cracked in half and that is where all of the water had gone. Upon close inspection the Apollo brand 1 inch crimp had spider cracking all over it and had failed on one of those spider cracks. I quickly replaced the bad crimp, filled the boiler back up with water and got everything back to normal. I checked all of the other crimps and found only one other one with the same spider cracking on it and that was outside on the back of the stove( I replaced this one too). I have no idea what caused just these two crimps to fail like that. I used all of the same brand and they were all bought at the same time. Anyone else have something like this happen? If not I would check your crimps. BTW I had ALOT of build up in the elbows when I opened up the crimps. Looks like calcuim/rust/iron. I do have bad water and have a water softener but apparently I am still getting build up in the lines.
39
Plumbing / Oil Furnace and Water to Air HX question
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:27:41 PM »
I have had my owb for 3 seasons now. I have not really ever used the oil furnace. I thought that it would be good to get the furnace in good working order as a back up. I installed a relay on the OWB pump so that when the oil furnace kicks on it cuts the pump from circulating water, before this the air from the oil furnace would be cool after it blew through the 60 degree water circulating through the water to air hx. I have found that while the oil furnace is running that the water in the hx is reaching 210-215. I can hear it popping and gurgling after the furnace fan shuts off. Is that ok? Everyone else that runs this set up must have the same issue?
40
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Slim, new model??
« on: October 19, 2014, 05:15:36 PM »
Slim, I stopped by your roadside set up today as per usual on my way my way home from closing up camp. I noticed a model sitting towards the back that was a little different color and style then the others. Upon closer inspection it had a digital controller which is unlike portage and main. It also appeared to have only one fan and it was acting like a power vent?
What the heck is that thing? I swung up by your barn but didn't see you around. Your wood doctor was burning away I noticed though!
What the heck is that thing? I swung up by your barn but didn't see you around. Your wood doctor was burning away I noticed though!
41
Electronics / Evergreen IM blower motor replacement
« on: October 16, 2014, 10:48:32 AM »
Looking at putting an evergreen IM dc blower motor in to replace my 3 speed ac motor. I am looking to have the blower speed run on a slow rpm mode to keep the warm air in the house circulating and ramping up to meet the heat load requirements when necessary. Anyone have any experience with these?
42
Hardy / Rewired the Hardy
« on: August 03, 2014, 09:42:48 PM »
So I went from the basic wiring that was on the Hardy with only a few items that could go wrong to a whole bunch of items that could go wrong now! Hopefully though they will work as intended and actually help out. So in the picture you can see that I have a Fan outlet box and a pump outlet box. The pump outlet box is fed from the low water cut off sensor that you see down in the lower right corner of the screen. After it goes through the low water cut off it travels through the normally closed relay from the indoor oil furnace, if the oil furnace kicks on it kicks the pump off to keep water from circulating. Then on the fan side the power comes from the low water cut off and can power the plug either through the low limit aquastat or the 12 hour timer switch. These are to prevent the coals from going out when the temp gets low and the timer is to allow the temp to come back up when I add more wood. Also have a high limit snap disc for 200* set in line on the fan circuit to cut it off if it goes over 200*. Added a Ranco aquastat and homemade well also. Hopefully everything goes as intended!
43
Hardy / Summer cleaning
« on: July 13, 2014, 06:35:32 PM »
How well are you guys able to clean out the bottom of your Hardys for the summer months? I removed the two I beams in the bottom and the grates. I vacuumed it all out but could not get the build up off of the sides. It is about 3 inches thick in some places and hard as a rock! I believe it is just the creosote which had dripped down the walls and solidified with the ash. I tried scraping at it a little bit with a shovel but it is really on there good. Any reason I should work to get it off or just leave it?
44
Electronics / Oil burner back up wiring
« on: July 11, 2014, 10:02:31 PM »
I need to cut my pump on my owb from circulating when the oil burner thermostat in the house calls for heat. The most simple way for this to be accomplished that I can think of is to have the oil burner thermostat trigger a 24 volt relay out at the owb which would break the power from the pump. My question is will I need to buy a 24 volt transformer to trigger the 24 volt relay with the thermostat or can I somehow use the 24 volt transformer built into the oil burner controller? Thanks.
45
Plumbing / Oil burner as back up through water to air hx
« on: June 21, 2014, 10:41:23 AM »
Hello everyone, I have been very very busy for the past few months and haven't been around this site much. I have a question for those using there oil burner or gas burner as back up through the FHA system. I installed my system when I bought the house and have never used the oil burner since install. Recently I replaced the flue pipe for the oil burner since it was not in the best condition as well as vacuumed out the inside of the furnace. I then fired the furnace up to give it a little exercise to make sure it was working correctly. What I noticed that I had not thought about was the fact that the water to air hx had 60 degree water in it which was effectively cooling the hot air blowing out of the furnace way way down. The water in the HX did start to heat up, rose about 20 degrees in two minutes. At that point I shut it down since everything was working correctly and figured I would research more on what other peoples experience is running there burner through the hx. I assume that I would need to shut down the pump or isolate the hx from the loop if I was going to use the burner as a back up or I would never be able to heat up the water in the hx. Once the water gets up to temp in the hx will it stay up there for a long while so that the next time the burner fires it won't have to heat the water back up again in order to get warm air out of the registers?