Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Home Made => Topic started by: Bull on September 16, 2011, 10:38:44 PM
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I was wondering if the gas from a gasification stove could be used to power a small engine like on a generator? Like this How The Liberator Gasifier Works (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnjDqDbtHx8#)
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Hopefully all of our OWB's, gasification style or otherwise, have gone through a complete combustion process. The main exhaust products from burning a hydrocarbon based fuel like wood are carbon dioxide, water vapour and nitrogen which gets carried along for the ride. None of these products are further combustible.
The gasification liberator works by heating, not burning, the wood fuel and causing combustible gases to vent off. It is the same basic principle used at many landfill sites which collects methane gas from rotting garbage which is then burnt to produce power. I thought it was very telling that the video did not actually show the liberator working. I personally think it is a very poor process for that application. I will stick with gasoline for my generator.
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you can do a search on the net and rind out a lot about this process. from what i have read this can be done and it will work well if you have time to tinker and fine tune...but i also read it works best on low rpm engines and becasue of it's slow burn timing of the engine has to be advanced up to 30 or 40 degrees this in turn will lower your engines power by about 30 percent (thats what i read)
if i can find the link again i can post it. I do know this type of process was used during the second world war a lot as fuel was hard to come by.
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I know there are systems out there (even FEMA put out info) that will run a genset. There are several on youtube but I was wondering if you could tap into a gasifier (before it burns all the gas) and get enough fuel to run a small genset to power your pumps and blower on the furnace. Just in-case something would happen and you could not get gasoline.
"food for thought and a future project"
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I have been wondering the same thing. I think I posted something about it a few months ago in a thread about making electricity with an OWB.
The only way I can think of to get the gasses out of the firebox is through the door and I don't really want to cut a hole through the door on my new gasifier but might.
If I did it and it worked, I would probably get cheap engines off craigslist and use an alternator and grid tie inverter and just let them run till they died.
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I don't have a gasifier RSI but if this would work (and I think it should) I will have one.
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im not sure if it would or would not work but if it did work you would only be making "gas" for your combustion engine when the house or some a"appliance" was calling for heat. when your OWB water was up to temp wouldn't your gasifier stove be idling (i dont own one so i don't know exactly how they work) and if it was i don't think you would be making "gas" for your gen set. you would be required to go out and start your gen set each time your OWB started to cycle and make "gas"?
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gassifying wood boilers are designed to burn the gas in the secondary burn chamber.There is no provision to suck off the syn gas to run an engine.Your getting your clean burn by burning the wood gas going through the nozzle into the refractory chamber.
Now if you had a bypass to exit the flue gas out and seperate the particles you could produce wood gas to run your generator.
I would say way too much hassle and redisgning of a stove to even try it.Instead just make a producer off of one of the plans or kits on the net.
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Thanks for the reply's all, I was trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. LOL
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What is the difference between the syngas used to run an engine and what is produced in the firebox of a downdraft stove?
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rsi i don't think there is any difference (guess on my part) except there is not likely as much as we all are trying to burn a hot fire and then burn what gasses escape. in a fire you are trying to produce the syngas you are using a smoldering fire to produce much more of it.
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Yeah Willie your right,I am not an expert on all of it,but from my research thats what we're doing.We are burning all the syngas,wood gas,etc.. whatever you want to call it in the secondary burn chamber.These stoves are not designed to be a producer of the gas.They are made to burn it up to get a clean stack exhaust.Then also extracting that extra high heat burn to heat the water.So you get more efficiant use of your burnt wood.While also burning less at the same time. :thumbup:
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Wouldn't a pipe fitting welded through the door all you would need to get it out? I am not sure what would be needed for a filter system. I have seen some mention of running it through some sort of filter with water in it but that wouldn't work in the winter.
I am willing to cut a hole on the door and weld a pipe in it if it has a reasonable chance of working.
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I am not sure what part of the stove would be best to capture the gas but not sure the door would be the right place.
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It is the only way into the firebox (where the wood sits) without going through the water jacket.
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Long time lurked here, first post ever. If I might chime in on the subject as I have studied and experimented myself with syngas. The proper place to "tap into" the burner would actually be in the secondary chamber. But the process would require that absolutely NO secondary air is introduced, and that the producer gas must be cooled immediately after it leaves the coals to prevent it from igniting. So the heavily insulated secondary chamber would hinder the process. The gas cannot be pulled from the primary chamber, as only pyrolosis has happened at this point and not the reduction phase that is necessary. The heat from the bed of coals releases the wood gas in its raw state. This is the pyrolosis phase. Then the raw wood gas must be passes through the bed of burning coals with just the right amount of oxygen at just the right velocity to induce "carbon cracking" and to initiate the exothermic process of "reduction" where all the chemical compounds are reduced to basic elements of flammable gases of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The inert atmospheric gases pass through to help carry the heat and the carbon settles out in the form of fine ash. It is possible to do such a thing with a boiler, but the conditions would have to be absolutely perfect.
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Long time lurked here, first post ever. If I might chime in on the subject as I have studied and experimented myself with syngas. The proper place to "tap into" the burner would actually be in the secondary chamber. But the process would require that absolutely NO secondary air is introduced, and that the producer gas must be cooled immediately after it leaves the coals to prevent it from igniting. So the heavily insulated secondary chamber would hinder the process. The gas cannot be pulled from the primary chamber, as only pyrolosis has happened at this point and not the reduction phase that is necessary. The heat from the bed of coals releases the wood gas in its raw state. This is the pyrolosis phase. Then the raw wood gas must be passes through the bed of burning coals with just the right amount of oxygen at just the right velocity to induce "carbon cracking" and to initiate the exothermic process of "reduction" where all the chemical compounds are reduced to basic elements of flammable gases of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The inert atmospheric gases pass through to help carry the heat and the carbon settles out in the form of fine ash. It is possible to do such a thing with a boiler, but the conditions would have to be absolutely perfect.
and continuously!
Welcome to the site!!
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Thank you for the warm welcome. This is a great place to find lots of information and the people here are very open and friendly with it. As I get settled in I hope I too can become a contributor to the vast amount of knowledge available. :thumbup:
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Welcome to the forum.glad to see someone e who has knowledge on gasification. To come on and give us some insight.jump on in as everyone is great in here.
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Welcome to the site peacmar, all info you can offer will be appreciated.