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Author Topic: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40  (Read 3748 times)

mlappin

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Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« on: December 11, 2015, 09:00:24 AM »

From another new member stuck in posting approval limbo:

I ordered a BL 28-40 from the factory (no local dealer) and it was delivered on Saturday. With the help of a rented Genie 5519 telescoping forklift, we had it off the truck and on the pad in probably 30 minutes. Terrifying and exhilerating at the same time! Now the fun begins.. What components do I need.. How do I make this thing go..

I have a few (heh) questions, if any of you would be so kind to assist me with them.

1) Pump - I have 110' of Logstor and there's probably 15' or so of elevation difference from the lowest point water will be in the house, to the supply lines on the back of the OWB. Any suggestions on what might be appropriate for that?

2) Pump Location - Why would I want the pump mounted at the OWB itself, as opposed to in my basement? Or vice versa? Noise?

3) Pump Direction - If it's mounted at the OWB, would it be configured as water supply line to pump which then pushes towards the house (downhill but not relevant in a closed system I presume) and ultimately back (up) to the OWB? If it's in the house, would it be installed on the "return" line to the OWB, pushing what's already came through heat exchangers back to the OWB? Or in a closed system does it not really matter all that much? Seems like gravity would pretty much take care of getting water from the OWB to the input of the heat exchanger...

4) DHW - A plate heat exchanger is typically used to heat the water coming into the HW heater isn't it? A sidearm is used to keep water already inside of it hot? With ~180F water coming from the OWB, the HW heater would come up to pretty close this temperature as well wouldn't it? That's too hot to go to a faucet/tub so I assume that's where a mixing valve comes in? Sum in a bit of cold water to bring it back down to ~130F. Our tap water is ultra cold in the winter, probably because the pipe goes through a creek. I'm inclined to install both a plate and sidearm heater, thoughts?

5) Home - It's 1700sqft with a single heat pump. Which survived the last two winters with a moderate amount of "emergency heat" usage. The full basement is not heated and falls to the low 40's at least, we've sealed it off from upstairs entirely these last 2 winters. The upstairs we've completely remodeled, insulation is pretty good, very little leakage/drafts or similar. I plan to put an air handler only in the basement and water-to-air heat exchanger. Floor joists are insulated but that could be removed, basement ceiling is not finished. I hope to heat the basement, and not have to have a second heat exchanger for the upstairs air handler. If that becomes necessary though, shouldn't be too difficult to add. The basement stairs come out very close to the upstairs air return, plus just what tends to rise over the entire ceiling/floor area.

That covers some of my more pressing questions on the basics. As an electronics tinkerer though, I can't help but ponder improvements, additions, etc.. I've not looked closely at the supplied aquastat yet, nor have I looked at any technical documentation for it. Does it by chance have the ability to act as a remote thermostat, providing current temperature information along a cable to a remote receiver? Or would I need to purchase an additional sensor for that? I'm thinking of putting some direct burial ethernet in the trench so that I can monitor some aspects of the system from inside the home, provide alerting, etc.. I read on here about a mod to cut off the fan when temps drop below a certain point, I think that sounds like a very good idea as well. Always interested in additional mods like this, and especially anything related to monitoring or better automation.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
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rickldb22

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 08:47:44 PM »

You'll want the pump pushing towards the house.  I have one pump at the boiler for the house. And one in the shop. The pump for house is at boiler as the house is higher then the boiler, and in the event I have to replace it in a hurry, I don't want to fight trying to prime it.

My set up has the circuit going to a w/w plate exchanger then to w/air exchanger then through filter and finally back to the stove. Also have a bypass valve before going into the exchangers as well as around the filter. I run the stove at 180 and do not have a mixer on the domestic hot water. We just be careful with the faucets. The plate exchanger heats the domestic water going into the hwt. I turn the elements off.

I installed a receptical at the stove to plug the pump in.

Make sure to install bypass valves.
Rick
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rickldb22

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 08:58:20 PM »

I burried some cat6 in the trench to the boiler, but have not used it. Most likely never will as I check/fill the stove twice a day anyway so I can check the temp there if a want to know it. I will however install a strobe light warning if the tempture gets to high.

If you have a plate exchanger for domestic hot water, you won't need a side arm.
Rick
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wdingus

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 11:39:00 AM »

Thanks for posting this and fixing my account mlappin...

Rick, thanks for the answers to my questions, and for some excellent suggestions.

Some kind of remote alarm for overtemp would certainly be nice. I may go ahead and bury ethernet while I have the trench dug as well.. Not sure what exactly I'll use it for, but can probably come up with something.

Logstor pipe.. The stove/pipe combo came with 4 female NPT-PEX compression fitting connectors. The stove has 2 male and 2 female NPT supply/return ports, so those will half work. I was surprised to see they were compression fittings, I had anticipated using barbed connectors and copper rings and my PEX crimp tool. I did some reading last night and am now wondering, is this PEX-AL-PEX? If so will I need a chamfering tool? Crimp rings won't work?

I've looked at a fair amount of install photos, diagrams, etc.. This one seems to be somewhat  close to what I'm trying to do: http://www.polarfurnace.com/my_folders/install_schematics/Open_-_Central_Air_and_DHW_-_Single_Pump.jpg

It helps me to visualize the finish line.. Anyway, not sure if the Flexible Reinforced Tubing would be needed or not, the PEX might be long enough (and should provide plenty of give/take). Suggestions on what could be used as that tubing otherwise?

Thanks.
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MerrellRoofing

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 11:56:32 AM »

Logstor is bigger than 1" pex. Your crimp tool will be too small. A reamer tool will be good to have for those compression fittings so you don't booger up the o-rings.

Some people use all pex for install. Some switch to copper once inside. It depends on looks and personal preference. Some have also used heater/radiator hose as well if you need some flexibility.
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wdingus

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 03:12:30 PM »

Logstor is bigger than 1" pex. Your crimp tool will be too small. A reamer tool will be good to have for those compression fittings so you don't booger up the o-rings.

OK, that makes sense...

PEX OD is 1.125" and ID is 0.875"
http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-tubing-technical-specs

Logstor OD is 1.26" and ID is 1.032"
http://www.pexflex.net/html/techinfo_index.htm

PEX-AL-PEX OD is 1.28" and ID is 0.98"
http://www.pexheat.com/Catalog/PEX-AL-PEX

So the compression fittings they supplied, are probably for PEX-AL-PEX, or are at least close enough in size that they'll work it sounds like. Sounds like...
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fireboss

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 07:20:51 PM »

I no it's a lot at first but most of us have a spare pump ! They always go in the middle of the night or at the worst possible times! Just a thought!
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mlappin

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Re: Questions on finishing install of BL28-40
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 10:24:40 PM »

Take it from somebody who didn’t spend the money where it should have been spent the first time, smart move with the Logstor, it will be the cheapest pipe you can buy as you’ll only have to bury it once. It takes an obscene amount of wood to heat the ground and keep the lawn green above your buried pipe thru the winter, wanna guess how I know?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 10:30:46 PM by mlappin »
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