Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: Marleywood on February 02, 2017, 11:29:57 AM
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Hi,
New to the forum and new to owning a wood furnace. We recently bought a house in central New Hampshire which has a Central Boiler CL-5648.
The house has oil heat via 2 furnaces, one in 2BR garage apartment (separate systems). When the wood furnace system is engaged, it will heat both areas.
I'm a total noob on this system, so please bear with me if I have seemingly obvious questions.
I have the manual that came with the furnace, but it's a bit overwhelming.
My first simple(?) question is on on to fire it up.
In my crawl space in the main house, near the furnace are four hot water pipe valves that are clearly marked as to their required positions for wood heat Vs the oil system only.
I have checked the boiler for water (good).
So, I build a fire.......
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Welcome to the forum Marleywood. I'm in NH also. If you're at all familiar with Dartmouth College, I live about 15 miles south east of the college in a small town called Enfield. You'll find a lot of smart people on this forum who are willing to share their expertise with anyone who asks for help. Ask all the questions you want. Every question is an important one.
I have a Central Boiler E-Classic 1400. This is my 6th season heating my 4500sqft house and domestic hot-water (DHW). I fired mine up in early October and I think I'm approaching 3 cord of wood. For the past 6 seasons my oil burner has been my backup heating system. Roger
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Before you light the fire you must make sure your pump or pumps are working and you have no leaks and the water is circulating . I would let it flow at least 24 hrs and then you need to test the water it tells you how in the manual ,then you to see if the draft door is working you can do that by shutting the unit on and off then if it works light the fire but do it when you can be the to make sure it shuts itself down when it reaches the temperature it's set at
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Where in central nh? I'm in Canterbury 10 mins north of concord.
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I'm @ Newfound Lake.
The water is already circulating through the system via the furnace system. All the heat is hot water, either through baseboards or radiant floor heat.
I'm wondering what the sequence is for lighting the fire, and when to turn the valves for the wood furnace flow.
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Welcome. I'm fairly new here as well and everyone has been especially kind. Wood heat is the blood of America, this is how we survived for so many years. If there is one thing I can recommend that you didn't mention doing is to make sure your water treatment is up to central boiler's standards. You can do this in may different ways. You can send in a water sample to central boiler, you can send it in to a local culligan or even do it yourself. I have culligan water systems test my water for me. It cost me 2 dollars extra on my monthly statement. Whatever way you decide to do this doesn't matter but make sure you keep that treatment in the stove or it will quickly rot away from the inside out. You can purchase water treatment from a lot of different places, I choose to purchase mine locally which ends up being a big eBay supplier.
Here is a picture of my stove after a full load of black walnut -25 degrees outside.
Good luck and enjoy the heat!
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I am 30 mins south of you. No idea how the previous home owner set up your system. Trace your lines to and from the boiler so that you can get your head wrapped around what is going on. As far as firing the boiler I would just power it up and light a fire in it. Let the water temp come up to 150+ and then turn on your pump on the boiler. If you need help with figuring out how your system works then I would draw a picture and post it here so we can help.
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If youve never ran the stove before I'd turn on the pump and look for leaks first. If no leaks are found, shut the pump off and start your fire. The inside of the stove will probably sweat when you first build the fire as the water jacket will be cold so it helps to keep the pump off and warm the stove as quickly as possible. Once the stove is up to temp, turn on your pumps and start drawing some heat into the home. Watch the stove go through a cycle or two to make sure it starts and stops with what your water temp set points are set at.
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I've never run the system, but I am 100% positive that the system has been well maintained and that the anti corrosion protocols have been observed throughout the life of the system. We were fortunate enough to purchase this home from the original owner, who also built most of the house himself. He is a commercial pilot and a former fighter pilot. As such, preventative maintenance, frequent inspection and proper labeling of everything is the theme of systems of the entire house.
I was told by a furnace technician who was servicing our oil burner's, and has a wood furnace, that I should just unplug the pump power from the panel (at least I thing that's what the plug is), wait until the water temp is up to about 180 and plug it in. Sounds simple, but I wanted other input. The water from one system (I assume the garage apartment) circulates out into the boiler to keep it from freezing (if I understand it correctly), so it should be warmed up to be good to go. I further assume that when I put the valves in the crawlspace into their proper position for wood heating, that the circulation system now opens up for both buildings.
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We have no idea how he set it up without a pic or schematic.
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Is the original owner still in the area? If so maybe he’ll explain the whole thing over a 6 pack of adult beverage.
From reading your posts I’m thinking the whole thing might have been made overly complicated.
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So, this is what I've got going on out on the panel.
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This one didn't show up in the other post
So, someone told me to simply unplug the pump (seen in photo), start a fire & when the water gets up to temp (180 I believe) to plug the pump back in & go.
Is this correct? Do I do anything with the "Power Disconnect" shown in the other picture?
As I mentioned earlier, there are some valves in my crawl space the are supposed to be opened & closed for the water flow in my heating system that allow for the wood furnace to circulate. That's all clearly marked by the furnace, so no worries there, but my question is do I open that all up before I bring the wood furnace on-line or wait until after it's at temperature?
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I would just wait to open the valves in the house until your boiler is up to temp. Once the boiler is up to temp, turn the valves to the correct positions then plug in the pump.
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I would just wait to open the valves in the house until your boiler is up to temp. Once the boiler is up to temp, turn the valves to the correct positions then plug in the pump.
OK, cool, that sounds logical (and kind of what I was thinking).
So you think unplugging the pump as discussed is what to do? Sorry, I'm kind of a nervous Nelly about this.
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Yeah, that's the easiest way to do it. No need to be nervous. Just light the fire, go out every hour or so to check the water temp to make sure the aquastat turns the damper soleniod off when it reaches the temp that the aquastat is set to. Once it is up to temp and the soleniod has closed down open your valves and plug in the pump.
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Honda is right, don't be jumpy. A CB Classic is about as simple of a furnace as it gets. Not extremely efficient or cutting edge but it runs and makes good heat.
Solenoid opens and closes to control draft (water temp), pump circulates to buildings, you load wood daily and shovel out ash every once in a while. Keep your water treated and watch for moisture buildup at the ash line in the firebox. You don't want condensation to set anywhere on a mild steel unit (stir ashes). Loading only what you'll burn in the next 12-18 hours will really help on moisture.
Keep it dry and you'll purr along and love your unbeatable comfort in the house.
Welcome to the forum!
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Thanks folks, you've made me feel better about this. I know it's silly to sweat this stuff, and I'm sure it is pretty simple, but I'm a n00b @ this and it's a little daunting. I'm sure I'll laugh about this later!
I should also point out that this furnace is in it's own little wood shed next to my garage. I'll post pictures when I can. This is a great forum, thanks to everyone who has contributed!
Marleywood
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Don't be scared, fire it up.
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My 2 cents is to plug in the pump when you light it. I do the so I don't forget it. There are videos of lighting a CB furnace but yo don't need it. News paper in corners and the center, cover with good small kindling and light it with a propane torch.
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OK, going for it. How long should I expect it to take for it to get up to temperature to make the switch? The fire box is warm from the water circulating the system to keep the boiler from freezing. Just looking for a rough estimate as to when to go back and check on it's progress....
Thanks.
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My 6048 takes over 3 hours to go from 60 to 180 degrees. I don't put a lot of wood in it at a time when I first start up. I will have to add wood a couple times before its up to temperature.
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My previous stove was a 5648. Its a big stove, nearly 400 gallons iirc. Not sure how warm your back up heat is keeping your water, but when I'd start mine up cold late in the fall it took a good 3 hours. Sometimes longer. Its a natural draft stove so its going to take some time and some tending too to get the fire lit and get a big enough coal bed built to get a good hot burn going.
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My back up heat had the water @ 130, so it didn't take all that long. Burned through the night nicely and is doing well.
More dumb questions though......I really don't have the greatest understanding of how this system works....HVAC is not my area of expertise....
So, the wood furnace is burning nicely, up to temperature and "on line", meaning the pump is running and I threw the valves on the oil heating system into the position indicated for using the wood furnace.
My understanding was that in this configuration, the oil should only kick in if the water temperature in the system dropped below what the wood furnace was set to keep it at. (such as if the fire burned out)
That being said, I've occasionally noticed my oil furnace running, although it seems to happen much less frequently than if the wood furnace was not on. Is this normal?
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Welcome to the forum Marleywood. I live in Holderness and would be happy to swing by and go through your system with you. I'm in the Newfound area frequently.
Good luck!
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No, thats normal for your oil furnace to kick on. So there is a couple possibilities here. Either the previous owner just shut off the breaker or emergency switch for the oil furnace when the outdoor boiler was running(this requires manual operation on your part if the owb goes out to put the oil back online) or he has an aquastat on the incoming owb line which breaks the connection to the oil furnace power when the owb water is above a certain temp, if the owb temp drops below this set temp then the oil furnace kicks on, that would be an automatic way of controlling it which would require you to do nothing at all if the owb went low on wood. If you have only a manual way of operating the oil as a back up I would suggest you look into getting a strap on aquastat or similar switching device and set it up so that you don't have to do anything manually.
I would guess that either your system is set up so that you manually have to kill your oil furnace when your owb is running or the aquastat is turned way up. Take a look at your oil boiler wiring and see if any wires go to a box attached to the incoming owb lines.
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@ Honda, I was certainly given the impression that I do not turn any (oil) furnace switches off in the transition process, nor would I need to if I were to be away any the fire burned down....The oil system is supposed to kick in...I'm fairly clear about that...
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Well if the system is supposed to be automated so that if the owb temp drops below a certain level then the oil will kick on it is not working. If your owb was running and up to temp then your oil should not be kicking on and you said it has been. So you need to figure out then what is controlling the oil boiler to run or not run when the owb is in use. Like I said this is usually accomplished with an aqua stat connected to the incoming owb line.
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Marleywood, what temp is your indoor boiler set at? If at 140 degrees or so, it should not be firing if you have your Classic set at a 185 or 190 set point with the typical default 10 degree differential. The Classic should easily maintain your indoor boiler water temp well above that 140 degree back up temp on the indoor boiler and it should not fire as long as you keep wood burning in the outdoor Classic.
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Quick question - What's heating your domestic hot water (DHW)? If you have on-demand from the oil burner, then it will fire occasionally to keep the water hot enough for bathing, washing, etc... Roger
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Quick question - What's heating your domestic hot water (DHW)? If you have on-demand from the oil burner, then it will fire occasionally to keep the water hot enough for bathing, washing, etc... Roger
Ahhhh, that might be the ticket! Yes, I imagine the hot water is still calling on the oil burner ....
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If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on it. Roger
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I guess things are good or we would have heard back.
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I guess things are good or we would have heard back.
Ha, sorry, I got distracted with issues with my snow plow truck & a couple of storms. It's pretty wintery up here in the NH mountains at the moment.
Furnace seems to doing well.
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I guess things are good or we would have heard back.
Ha, sorry, I got distracted with issues with my snow plow truck & a couple of storms. It's pretty wintery up here in the NH mountains at the moment.
Furnace seems to doing well.
:thumbup: :post:
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So, rolling along nicely.
I was watching a TV show the other day where they were doing a pit pig roast, and they had these big, almost bowling ball size pieces of lava rock that they put in the pit with the coals to help retain heat (like on a propane BBQ grill, but bigger scale). Has anyone done this with a wood furnace? It it crazy? Would it work?
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So, rolling along nicely.
I was watching a TV show the other day where they were doing a pit pig roast, and they had these big, almost bowling ball size pieces of lava rock that they put in the pit with the coals to help retain heat (like on a propane BBQ grill, but bigger scale). Has anyone done this with a wood furnace? It it crazy? Would it work?
Don’t see the point myself, thats what your coal bed and the ashes it holds is for.
If you’re stove already uses firebrick then thats what the firebrick is for.
On the other hand, I can’t see the harm in trying.
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:post:
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Don’t see the point myself, thats what your coal bed and the ashes it holds is for.
If you’re stove already uses firebrick then thats what the firebrick is for.
On the other hand, I can’t see the harm in trying.
I just thought the rocks might help the coal bed retain heat and possibly require less fuel. I'm not sure what "firebrick" is, or whether I have it, if so, it's not in the firebox itself. As I've said, I'm a N00b.
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The Classic wouldn't have firebrick, I think.
The lava rock would retain some heat, but I'd think it would just be a nuisance in the firebox for wood loading and raking ash. BBQ 's are a bit different in that they're trying really hard to avoid temp fluctuations . In your furnace it doesn't matter. The ash around the coals does retain heat very well.
To really change your firebox temperatures you would have to fire brick it all the way up the sides and across the top to keep the heat from being absorbed into the water jacket. But then your exhaust temps would go a lot higher and you would need a better heat exchanger on the exhaust which the classic doesn't have.
One thing affects the next. Never as simple as it looks on the surface but lots of fun. :)
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Thanks for the input. We have been enjoying heating with the wood furnace this winter.