Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Home Made => Topic started by: peacmar on August 21, 2012, 07:58:38 PM
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****The following images are the property*****
Of Peachy Custom Stainless, they are not to be reproduced or reused for any other reason than personal use or learning purposes. They are not to be used for for financial gain, scaling or design purposes, or any other purpose other than descriptive of the objects displayed. Any use must be authorized by written permissions given by Peachy Custom Stainless. Any design resemblance to any existing product is purely coincidental and only a direct result of common manufacturing processes and all ideas hereafter are the sole property of Peachy Custom Stainless.
Well the sky is the limit here, going to have a secondary condensing heat exchanger after I have it running and can collect some data to use for design. Initially it will be a forced draft but once the condensor is functioning it will be induced draft.
Primary chamber formed up and tacked to formed up secondary chamber
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7117/7604568506_a4b908537f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7604568506/)
Back view primary tacked to secondary. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7604568506/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Back welded on, air inlet plasma cut out of both chambers and exchanger pipe lower box tacked on.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8285/7832354984_722a43b629.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7832354984/)
IMAG0943 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7832354984/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Exchanger plate punched and welded in place. 8 tubes, 2.375" od with .140" wall at 40" long. The plate is 1/4" thick, knocked it out on a strippit cnc punch on my lunch break.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8290/7832361636_41ff75d2b8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7832361636/)
IMAG0944.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/7832361636/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Looks good. I wish I could weld that nice. :thumbup:
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Thanks on that, I've got a few years under my belt ;D
The welding is the easy part, calculating bend tolerances, material lost, material gained, inside dimension, outside dimension, that's the hard part. Non of this project will have any CAD design, only good ol' fabrication skill. So when I get to weld its like a chance to kick back and relax and enjoy it for a moment.
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Thanks on that, I've got a few years under my belt ;D
The welding is the easy part, calculating bend tolerances, material lost, material gained, inside dimension, outside dimension, that's the hard part. Non of this project will have any CAD design, only good ol' fabrication skill. So when I get to weld its like a chance to kick back and relax and enjoy it for a moment.
Lookinf good !!!!
I know what you mean.Got to count for loss in a bend and where your going to gain on a side.Thats how I built mine ,and she came out great.
I see you went with the octagnal box shape like i did.I know you will get better heat transfer from all the flat sides than a circle.
I am going to enjoy seeing how yours comes out.As I know you have alot more research done than I did on the calculation side of things.Should be an great performer when its done. :thumbup:
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thats looking nice looking foward to see how it turns out
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Peacemar...wow! nice work, I'm a bit envious. :thumbup: looking forward to the upcoming posts.
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Slow going lately. fire wood season is here, tree business is booming, and the snowmobile world is starting to pick up again.
Here are a couple pics, need to get some more taken so I can get them up.
Inside of front primary chamber
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8453/8003720680_300072309d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8003720680/)
IMAG0955 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8003720680/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Inside bypass chamber
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/8003717403_2f12a71846.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8003717403/)
IMAG0956 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8003717403/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Nice work thus far. Any chance of seeing a few dimensions along the way? Also on the secondary chamber, whats the channel on the side? Secondary burn air duct?
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If this thing works as planned I hope to make a downloadable file with blueprints and dxf files for laser cutting available.
The channel formed into the secondary is where the secondary air is pumped in, then will enter through passages cut in the bricks that line it. Pre-heating the air as it passes through the heated fire bricks and will be directed to make a swirling and mixing effect. I based everything on common firebrick splits to make replacement cheap and simple.
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Todays progress
Front plate tacked on, temporary stiffened to hold width and square.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8035/8028660864_fa25351b61.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8028660864/)
IMAG0957 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8028660864/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
All outside welds of burn chambers complete
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/8028663668_12114c6421.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8028663668/)
IMAG0958 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8028663668/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Following some of the design aspects of the Froling units out of Germany along with a mix of the orlan eko60. Primary is 30" deep, 24" wide and tapers slightly, 40" tall. I calculated my needs based on a 12 hour cycle. I need to burn about 120 lbs of fuel to make the required amount of btu in this time period. This gave me an idea roughly what my primary needed to be in size. I then used a scale with a plywood box set on top of it to estimate the displacement of the wood. I built the box the same width and depth of the intended primary and 48" tall. I then filled it with 150 lbs of completely dry (20% moisture content) basswood as this was the lightest most energy less useless stuff I had laying around. That gave me an estimate for the needed height and I added about ten more inches. This way I don't have to worry about not being able to load enough wood in there. Fill it to the top with anything and it will make it through the intended period. I'm figuring a minimum of 80% efficiency if all goes well, more on that later.
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Plasma cutting secondary chamber access door. A Straight edge helps make a nice straight cut. Drape the cables over your shoulder also so your not fighting the cord and you will be more steady.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/8029327597_0076cc4135.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8029327597/)
IMAG0959 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8029327597/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Secondary door frame all welded up. Sheared out the jamb strips this morning and burned it up this afternoon.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8322/8044159432_8349d2f4de.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8044159432/)
IMAG0960.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8044159432/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Looks like it will be a very nice boiler :thumbup: I'm really excited to see how the condensing heat exchanger will work out. The best thing about building it all yourself is that you know it was done right.
You mentioned an oxygen sensor, have you looked into where to get one or the controls for it?
Very nice work
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The oxygen sensor will be a standard Bosch automotive wideband type. Once I have the mechanical aspect of the airflow controls worked out and this thing is running well enough, I will dive into that. The controller may be an off the shelf unit from another manufacturer, but I am looking into making my own. An oxygen sensor coupled to a simple pc logic board that will control a servo motor will continuously monitor and adjust the secondary air flow. Constantly targeting optimum burn. Which will in turn help the condensor work at its best. We have an exhaust sniffer we use on the dyno at work and I will use this to monitor the content of the exhaust until I find a range that will not foul out the oxygen sensor, then that will be implemented and take control. The logic board aspect seems to be pretty simple. I've looked at a couple of DIY servo controllers on the web and have found some that operate in an "if this then do that" manner and with some basic programming from the supplied software it should be easy. Oxygen sensors of the wideband type put out a voltage signal from 0-5V, if I give it a Target voltage of say 3V it will constantly adjust to try for that. The other option I am investigating is a P.I.D. controller. These work on the same basis but are self learning in the algorithms.
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Couldn't sleep this morning so I Got the front face of the water jacket burned out and tacked on before I had to headed off to work.
Bench is a little crowded right now so I had to find another one to use, not quite a comfortable height but still manageable.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/8070350244_c8acdb260b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8070350244/)
Front face of water jacket (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8070350244/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
I'll get a pic up of it tacked on tonight hopefully.
Next is the arduous task of designing hinges and latches. Over-center latches can be a bear sometimes. The hinges and latches will be completely adjustable like my last burner so the doors will always stay perfectly sealed.
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Front tacked on and doors set in place
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8196/8093702097_d852cf3fc3.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8093702097/)
Front tacked on, doors set in place (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8093702097/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Door hinge brackets
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8185/8093383181_7e47020f23.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8093383181/)
Hinge brackets door (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8093383181/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Got the primary door fitted up and hinges tacked on today, more pics of that tomorrow.
Here's a lil weekend project I worked on. Older husky L65, model 61 piston installed, squish band adjusted to .030" by turning down the base of cylinder. Ports where re-timed, and pop-up turned on face of piston. 182 psi compression and still climbing as it breaks in. Muffler mod and carb ported along with the transfer ports smoothed out. Pulls that 32" bar with ease, Just a lil nose heavy now. Ran it through some 48" red oak pieces Sunday and it never bogged no matter how hard I leaned on the bucking dawgs. Real pain in the a$$ to pull over but screams once its running.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8451/8057664747_c65ba2c0e0.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8057664747/)
26" tsumara on husky L65 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8057664747/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Gald to see you are not stuck on this burner project. Some times a little side trip can keep you from getting bogged down in a project. Nice bugs on the aftercooler!!!
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I love your workmanship, very professional. I am starting on designs for my third build, your info is great but I have built a owf of a different animal. I call it an inverted fluidized bed, I get high temps , gasification and no fire brick. I have been running it now for four years heating a 2800 ft house and hot water. It does it very efficiently with minimal smoke. my new build will address a few issues and hopefully improve on what I have already done . I need to increase the size of my firebox as it is quite small , it still gets 12 hr burn times in cold weather. I am also going to modify the shape , hoping to increase efficency. I have read your posts with much interest and have also followed your build, very impressive. My next build may take me a while as I have lost access to a fab shop. I'm working on a shop of my own and my press brake is eagerly waiting on my driveway under a tarp.
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Inverted fluidized bed..... I envision a T.L.U.D with a forced draft in the hearth zone.... Could you elaborate on that a bit? I think I may have tried something similar to that in one of my test projects.
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Actualy its an inverted mechanicaly fluidized bed, I presurize the fire box and burn in a bed of ceramic marbles. my new furnace will have a variable speed high presure blower and a digital manometer so i can optimize the burn. Whats a T.L.U.D.????????
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Peacmar, simply fantastic work. I'm looking in the background for the press brake in your shop. So I don't have to be totally jealous I'm hoping you at least have to go out to get access to that! :)
On your comment about using a PID. Last year I converted my heat treat kiln from manual control to electronic and went with a PID. I wouldn't go back now for anything. The ability to hold within one degree is fantastic. The learning ability of the PID was a little bit overstated (by some folks on the internet) in my opinion as the PID doesn't exactly sit and read the Wall Street Journal but it does begin to administer it's changes in a way that dials in to your settings pretty quickly. With variable conditions like a wood boiler, I'm not sure exactly how well it will hold it's setting but it will be tremendously closer than anything else.
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Thank you for the compliments everybody, much appreciated.
I grew up on a family farm but that was only home life for everybody. My father was an iron worker, my grandfather a machinist, my uncles where everything from tool and die makers to metalurgist in the heat treat field. My other grandfather was a gunsmith, and have other uncles that have mechanical backgrounds so its in my blood so to speak. one of our buildings was a 60' by 120' post frame fully finished as a workshop where we had every tool and machine imaginable, everyone contributed and everyone made money out of it. So I know my way around metal. As far as at my home shop, I currently do not have room for a press brake. I have a mostly automotive based shop where I build tube chassis and auto parts for the local racing community and do engine work on the side. All the pictures you see here are in my little welding corner I have curtained off. Some day ill talk the wife in to letting me add on but for now I use one of the brakes at work as I have unlimited access to the shop there and all the equipment also. So as it works right now I really don't need one at home, just wake up early or stay a few minutes late and form it at work.
Bullworker: A T.L.U.D is an acronym for Top Lit Upside Down gasifier. A very common form of camp stove and the simplest of gasifiers. Batch loading only, and can function perfectly without any sort of forced draft. Convection currents cause airflow through the apparatus to feed the fire.
Mrdan: my intentions of using the P.I.D are far greater than simply temperature control. I will actually be using a couple of them, all synchronized to communicate with eachother. One will monitor water temp, one will monitor secondary combustion temp, one will monitor flue gas temp, one will monitor flue gas oxygen content. My intentions are to have a self monitoring, self adjusting control module that will always aim for optimum burn, regulate secondary airflow, and shut down when combustion is complete. And lastly, buying 3 or 4 PID controllers together is cheaper than a single aquastat.
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Sounds awesome Peacmar, I'm looking forward to hearing about your PID setup. You obviously have the skills on your metal work, it shows.
Dan
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Made a couple changes which ill elaborate more on later but here's a pic of the progress so far.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8045/8138049134_14c9814758.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138049134/)
IMAG0975 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138049134/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
The door frame and water jacket border are all welded up along with the pipe in and welded too. Pipes where a bear to weld...... I changed to a smaller diameter pipe also for many reasons. I'll get into that more but the biggest reason was velocity through the turbulators I'm going to make. Needed more velocity to get the transfer I wanted.
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Looking at the photos this appears to be a single pass set-up? Are the 2nd-3rd passes on units like the P&M not worth the cost for the heat extracted?
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Those units are modeled after the "scotch boiler" and it has its merit, but in my opinion that particular design is better suited for the coal that was burned in those boilers. This boiler will have a second and third pass, as stated in the first post, but I needed to design it as such that when burning with the bypass damper open these dirty flue gasses would not plug up the higher efficiency second and third pass. Only gassification combustion will be allowed to flow through these so there is no condensation of particles on the inner walls to plug them or inhibit efficiency. That will be a separate but attached unit, and is yet to come.
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As of recent I have received a number of unusual PM's from individuals who have zero post history, asking for design drawings and blueprints. Due to the nature of these messages and their content I strongly believe that these are from individuals looking to make a profit from my design. Some of them are so clear in they're intent its unbelievable.... So I have taken a few precautions to make sure this doesn't happen. I've skewed the drawings so as to make it impossible to scale dimensions from them, I've edited a few critical dimensions from posts to prevent such things, and all these drawing are now filed as property of my design and fabrication business and are considered proprietary information. I find it rather dissapointing that this has happened, as I feel that all of us here are of the same type of creative individuals with some very talented skills among us. I'm not doing this for a profit and I intend to make sure nobly else does, and that unibody else takes this information from us. It should be shared freely as all knowledge should. I only have taken what I have learned and put it into a format that is easy for everyone to understand. So, from this point foreword I will continue as I am, but will do everything I can to keep this as public as it should be, yet be protected under the name of myself so that nobody else can try to take it. Now, should there be any corporate jerkoffs looking for ideas to make a buck around here.... My engineering consulting services go for $65 an hour, I have many large company's in my portfolio to back my knowledge, and I have fabrication services to offer also..... Should you be interested in making money off of this keep in kind ill be looking for my share also....
For all my loyal readers, thanks again for all the kind words. Let the fabrication continue!
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:post: Let me post a big thank you to peacmar!! I am glad to see a person put so much effort into a build like this then also log and document the process. While I could build a furnace without the internet or knowlage gained here it would be an ifferior unit as I have gained much from this board and its members. I hope the attempted theives are outed and that company black listed from our good graces. Thank you again for sharing the knowlage and skill. :thumbup:
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I appreciate the enthusiasm paperman but I don't think that I will be hearing from them again. As I said, they had no or one post listed, and where created the day the PM was sent. I have watched and nothing thereafter elsewhere. There where 5 messages sent on different days, clearly different individuals by the way they wrote, but where all after the same information. And as someone who has worked the engineering side of the patent process before, I know when I'm being approached by a knowledgeable individual who is trying to reverse-engineer something from a picture. There are certain words, engineering lingo so to speak, that are key indicators especially. I'm not trying to blacklist anyone, only preserve what is rightfully mine, of wich I choose to share with all of you.
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Welded door frame
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8476/8138072039_fe90dd4afa.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138072039/)
IMAG0976 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138072039/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
front door hinges
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8138073087_975fab056a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138073087/)
IMAG0970 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138073087/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Secondary door hinge, fully adjustable
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8138074561_beef90d051.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138074561/)
IMAG0971 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138074561/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
Backing up a little bit here, these are the new plates with the new pipes welded in place. I decided to use turbulators after some calculations and needed the smaller diameter to keep the velocity optimal to prevent fly ash buildup. The 3" pipes would have moved the air to slowly around the circumference as it swirled its way up the tube and the ash would have caked on eventually plugging the tubes.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8045/8138076441_bed36ee90e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138076441/)
IMAG0973 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/68676926@N06/8138076441/#) by Quicksilver99 (http://www.flickr.com/people/68676926@N06/), on Flickr
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Just an update
Two of the three burners have been put into use. The first one is running excellent, the owner finished winter still learning about gasification but is well on his way to success. The second one had a literal meltdown as the owner tried to tend to it while intoxicated and made a few mistakes that led to a chimney fire and damage. He is on his own now...
I haven't been able to finish mine yet. I need to get the shed it is going in finished first then finish construction of the burner in place. My baby bobcat only has a 2000 lbs limit and with it in the condition of the latest pictures it weighs about 1600 pounds. Water jacket, frame, insulation, and sheathing will put it close to 2800 lbs calculated. So mine is sitting in my pole building waiting for the next step. I do have some pics of the running units to post up when I get a chance.
We welcomed our son into the world back in march so he has been keeping me plenty busy also and I don't get to play in the shop as often but these are moment I wish to not miss. I'll document progress when I get back into it again. I still plan to share this with everybody.
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:post:
Glad to hear of the new little one. I was wondering if you fell off the planet or something. I too have back burnered my build until recently. Seems the details of life have a way of messing up the most well layed plans.
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SOOOOO whats going on
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I assume this was never finished?
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Very interested in the progress as well!
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The ideal of a o2 sensor to control the secondary air is something I've been tossing around, have already found a pid controller that will work and a damper that is powered on at all times but uses a 2-10vdc input to control the position of it. Biggest problem I could see is the o2 sensor might get fouled with fly ash in short order.