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[chadley]

When this site was down I went looking around on hearth.com.  They are WAY ANTI OWB!  They claim none of the companies on this site sell gassers.  I gave them the Hawken GX10 as an example of a gasser and they say that it isn't a gasser.  They are talking about companies like Biomass, Tarm, Garn, EKO, Orlan etc.  What is the difference in those units vs. what we are calling gassers on here?  Is it simply the indoor vs. outdoor that is making the difference between "their" gassers and "our" gassers?

They claim all of the arguments for OWB's and against gassers are false and that there is no more maintenance and the wood doesn't matter and the efficiency on theirs are WAY better than OWB's yet on here I hear people say they OWB's are not that less efficient and the gassers need more maintenance, and are more finicky on the wood they will burn.  Who is right?  Help me understand both sides.

Thanks,

Chris

[Scott7m]

You'll never encounter a more arrogant bunch than that you see on that forum..  They often times have 15-25k in there systems and by god there not going to think for a second they paid to much...  I know little about hawkens other than they have a bad name around here...

As far as there gassers there small units holding 40 gallon or so, some hook them up to storagrnto do batch bursns and pull heat of the stored water for a day or so... 

Empyre for example is unveiling an outdoor woodnfurnace that's simply there indoor model, weatherized and suited for outdoors.  Same stove different casing

Go toyoutube and type in empyre elite series, you'll see there indoor gasser, very nest units

As far as green wood being as efficient as seasoned, I won't even go there.  The math is very simple and only morons would tell you it is as good... 

So when your on that forum, take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt....  There is some smart folks on there and then you have the arrogant ones who know little besides what there dealer told them, they fail to realize it's a sales pitch and not the biblical gospel they proclaim

[martyinmi]

The Garn has been tested by an EPA accredited lab, and the results show a decently efficient boiler, but there are many gasifying OWB's that perform better where efficiency and emissions are concerned. Scott's right about the grain of salt thing.

   I have a sneaking suspicion that the EPA will soon be regulating the indoor gassers the same way they do the outdoor ones, and I believe  there are a few that will not meet the EPA's new Phase 2 standards. In fact, if some of the bragging over there is indeed true where ash production(or lack thereof) is concerned is true, then their pounds of particulate matter per million BTU's will far exceed the EPA's limit of .32 lbs.

   I for one will not sit back and allow the EPA to over regulate us, all the while imposing essentially no regulations or restrictions on  the mass storage guys. 

[TheBoiler]

I have a Garn.

It is true that there are more efficient boilers available.

I have friends with CB OWB's and a CB gasser. The CB gasser uses a lot less wood than the conventional CB's.

I have not seen anything other than CB's around here.

I have never seen a Hawken, just looked on their web site and they look like the standard CB's we have around here.

[martyinmi]

Your Garn is an awesome unit. They are "in" as far as the EPA is concerned. Welcome to the site!

[Scott7m]

I'm supposed to be going to Minnesota this spring to become a Garn rep.

[Roger2561]

Last year when I began my quest for a new heating system for my house, I called our local Garn dealer.  I was up front with him regarding my intentions.  He said that's all the OWB's are good for is heating the outdoors.  I knew immediately that he had never visited my local CB dealer because he uses one to heat his business and I was able to lean against it while were discussing options.  Roger

[Scott7m]

Last year when I began my quest for a new heating system for my house, I called our local Garn dealer.  I was up front with him regarding my intentions.  He said that's all the OWB's are good for is heating the outdoors.  I knew immediately that he had never visited my local CB dealer because he uses one to heat his business and I was able to lean against it while were discussing options.  Roger

See, right away the salesman gave you the impression he doesn't know the market or the competition.  As a buyer that already puts you on edge that he doesn't know what he's talking about

[vpd66]

Hearth.com has alot of smart people and is a great place to gain knowledge on boiler systems, but they can be very arrogant. Everytime I post a topic, with in a few replys I get "go buy a gasifier" form someone. I have a OWB that is bought and paid for and every season I use it keeps money in the bank. Why would a get rid of a perfectly good boiler and spend $8000.00 plus on a gasifier just to use a guess of 30% less wood? I've never had a problem getting enough firewood cut and between my land and a coworker 80 acres down the road I have plenty. Even when it come time to buy a new boiler its going to be hard to justify the extra money for a gasifer. It took me about 4 years to make my OWB pay off and it would take 10 plus years for a gasifer to pay off. OWB aren't really all that bad if you run them right. Seasoned wood, correct installatiions, and common sense and they really don't smoke much. I know mine is not very effient and I lose some heat up the stack, but it heats my house and its paid for!

[jrider]

Hearth.com has alot of smart people and is a great place to gain knowledge on boiler systems, but they can be very arrogant. Everytime I post a topic, with in a few replys I get "go buy a gasifier" form someone. I have a OWB that is bought and paid for and every season I use it keeps money in the bank. Why would a get rid of a perfectly good boiler and spend $8000.00 plus on a gasifier just to use a guess of 30% less wood? I've never had a problem getting enough firewood cut and between my land and a coworker 80 acres down the road I have plenty. Even when it come time to buy a new boiler its going to be hard to justify the extra money for a gasifer. It took me about 4 years to make my OWB pay off and it would take 10 plus years for a gasifer to pay off. OWB aren't really all that bad if you run them right. Seasoned wood, correct installatiions, and common sense and they really don't smoke much. I know mine is not very effient and I lose some heat up the stack, but it heats my house and its paid for!

Are you saying you would only use $1,100 to heat your home with your OWB with your statement that it would take 10 years to pay off a gasifier??  I bought a gasifier this season and it will be paid for sometime during the 4th year I own it...and thats if only oil prices stay the same.  It will be sooner if they climb.

[vpd66]

Hearth.com has alot of smart people and is a great place to gain knowledge on boiler systems, but they can be very arrogant. Everytime I post a topic, with in a few replys I get "go buy a gasifier" form someone. I have a OWB that is bought and paid for and every season I use it keeps money in the bank. Why would a get rid of a perfectly good boiler and spend $8000.00 plus on a gasifier just to use a guess of 30% less wood? I've never had a problem getting enough firewood cut and between my land and a coworker 80 acres down the road I have plenty. Even when it come time to buy a new boiler its going to be hard to justify the extra money for a gasifer. It took me about 4 years to make my OWB pay off and it would take 10 plus years for a gasifer to pay off. OWB aren't really all that bad if you run them right. Seasoned wood, correct installatiions, and common sense and they really don't smoke much. I know mine is not very effient and I lose some heat up the stack, but it heats my house and its paid for!

Are you saying you would only use $1,100 to heat your home with your OWB with your statement that it would take 10 years to pay off a gasifier??  I bought a gasifier this season and it will be paid for sometime during the 4th year I own it...and thats if only oil prices stay the same.  It will be sooner if they climb.

I have a house that is 1200sf built in 2004 well insulated. It has a lp forced air furnace. I'd use about a tank and a quarter of a 500 gallon lp tank to heat it. I also have a 1200sf shop insulated but not has good has the house. I keep the shop at 45 degrees and turn it up to 60 when I'm working in it. It uses about 3/4 of a 500 gallon tank. I haven't bought any lp in 3 years so I don't know the current price, but I think I paid around $2 a gallon and I'm sure its closer to $3 a gallon now. I use 6-7 full cords of seasoned wood to heat my house, shop, and DHW.

[TheBoiler]

Everybody's situation is different. I am not sure I would ever tell anybody to do what I did, I had my reasons, which made sense to me. I am sure there are better solutions, but probably not ones I could afford.

If you have something already that works then you would have to have a very good reason to change it. I just had more Propane, I use it for back up and cooking etc, 2.12 a gallon. But I think nationally that is cheap.

My pay back is about 2 years ish, but that is I know quicker than most. Difficult to do a direct comparison as I am happier heating hotter with wood.

When I looked around there was not a big difference between Gassers and others when you look at the total install cost. For me the biggest difference was the construction cost.