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[ssr]

the fire box is 1/4 '' thick 32'' dia. and just shy of 40'' long.switching around the inlet and outlet might be a good place to start,after it was brought up.the pump i got  pumps 40 gpm per minute and 30 ft head. hopefully this is big enough.im getting the mixing valve next week .ill install it also . thanks for everyones input.  im pulling my hair out on this project, i spend to much more money on it  the wife will hang me.lol

[willieG]

your pump sounds like it should be fine. your floor loop should only be around 10 feet of head (i think) like i said earlier pull the return line off at the OWB and see how many GPM is returning from your system then you will know for sure.

also as i stated before the return temp should never be more than 20 degrees less than your feed temps. most in floor radiant temps should only be between 7 and 12 degree drop from feed to return

when your floor system is calling for heat  and you say your stove cant recover...it MUST recover at some point if it is working at all,,what i mean is the water temp at the stove should reach a point where it does not go lower..

also how is your stove fed air...naturally or forced?

[martyinmi]

How many brands out there pull the supply water from the bottom? You guys have me scratchin' my noggin now. I dug up my installation and operation manual for my P&M 250 to make sure I'm doing it right. It shows several pictures of supply water being pulled from the top ports and return water being directed to the bottom ports. My friend's CB 6048 is hooked up that way also. Our systems use the pump as a "pusher" on the top ports, with no other pump in the system.

[willieG]

martin, my home made is the same i have never had a problem with temps

perhaps the OWB cycles a little sooner than  the other way but the water (if your pump runs 24/7) is always mixing. yes i agree that the hot water rises and if you put the cold in the top it will mix well. but i also think that if you are pushing 10 or 20 gpm into your tank it is mixing at a good rate as well. i mean lets face it..water going out the top is being pushe back in the bottom and your stove is always holding the same amount of gallons so what goes out the top has to be replaced with something. also if your system is operating properly (and sized properly) there is likley only a 10 or 12 degree difference between feed and return

i have seen some stoves where the feed and return are on opposite sides of the stove?

[martyinmi]

How cold is it getting up there? Supposed to get up to 58* or 60* here tomorrow. It's 50* right now.

[willieG]

52 rigth now and supposed to stay near that for the next 4 days

[ssr]

also how is your stove fed air...naturally or forced?




it is fed by a fan in the front door.i got the fan blowing under the fire. it is around 120 cfm. and i got a reastat on it to adjust the fan speed 1-10 .i can run the fan at what ever speed i want. good info on here

[willieG]

ok your stove never recovers how do you mean?

1 does your stove never get back up to your set temp?

2 does your fan ever shut off ?

3 does your stove "settle" at a lower temp (i mean does your stove say...stay at 70 or 80 degrees, it must settle somewhere?)

4 do youknow at what temp your water is entering your floor loop and what temp it is returning to the boiler?

5 have you determined the GPM flow returning to the boiler?

[yoderheating]

 You are correct that it doesn't matter all that much where the supply/return is. However with him starting and stopping the pump it only adds to the problem. With 2800ft of pipe full of cold water you need plenty of reserve to be able to pull from when the system kicks on. One thing I have learned from radiant in floor systems is that you can waste a lot of heat by pumping in water that is too hot. What you really want to do is slowly heat the floor up evenly and then it shouldn't take as much to maintain. Radiant heat systems are much slower systems than forced air systems. As WillieG already suggested you need to only pull a portion of the heat off the outdoor furnace. To do this properly you need two pumps and a mixing valve.

[willieG]

the water in my floor loop leaves teh loop anywhere from 80 degrees to 110 but meets up with the water in the return header that is anywhere from 135 upwards

my floor loop is set up that the floor loop itself is always circulating..when the themosta calls for heat the zone valve opens and the mixing valve does its thing.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h308/billie_boy7/P2120004.jpg

[ssr]

willie  g

THE FAN ON THE BOILER DOES VARY RARELY SHUT OFF.

THE FEED TEMP AND RETURN TEMP ARE AS MUCH AS 45 DEG APART ALOT OF TIME.THEY ARE NEVER THAT CLOSE.

I HAVE NOT YET GOT A EXACT GPM ON THE RETURN LINE.I GUESS I COULD JUST DUMP IT IN A BARREL AND TIME IT OR WHAT.

THE WARMEST THE AMBIANT AIR TEMP IN THE SHOP WILL ONLY STAY AROUND 55 DEG. AND THAT IS WITH THE BOILER CRAMED FULL OF WOOD WITH THE FAN ON HIGH CHEWING UP WOOD.

[yoderheating]

 Well the heat is going somewhere. I guess you have insulated pipe between the shop and furnace and insulated below the concrete?

[ssr]

there  is 2'' insulation under the concrete.i dont have insulated pipe in the ground,but it is ran 4' deep in 4'' pvc   for only 50 ft.

[Scott7m]

there  is 2'' insulation under the concrete.i dont have insulated pipe in the ground,but it is ran 4' deep in 4'' pvc   for only 50 ft.

Well....  There is a big part of the problem.   It doesn't matter if it's 4" deep or 4' deep.   Once the heat leaves the pipes it's gone and your not getting it back.  It doesn't matter if your heating the air around the tubing, the dirt, whatever.  When it's gone it's gone.  That's why the insulated pipe is so important.  It wouldn't surprise me if 30 degrees of the temp difference in supply and return is simply lost in getting there.

If youve got a roaring fire and no results.  Well, the heats going somewhere. 

[Scott7m]

This is one of the most common problems I see in DIY owb's is people skimp on the pipe and think PVC is somehow an insulator.  Ive seen folks make there own insulated pipe, some of it is "ok" but not as good as a true quality triple wrap.  They usually end up over 4 bucks a foot in DIY pipe, I don't see how it's ever worth a couple bucks a foot to run into problems and have to do all the work involved with it.