Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Electronics => Topic started by: donahuej on October 13, 2011, 08:08:39 AM
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Ok team – I have worn out the search function on this site and I think I have a fairly simple problem I’m trying to solve, help is appreciated; here it goes:
Looking to run one thermostat to control two heat sources:
System configuration:
- Outdoor boiler on/off on aqua stat in the unit & pump runs 24 x 7 (so no need to control anything out there)
- Inside forced hot air system with water to air heat exchanger
The issue; I’ve tried a number of professional Honeywell thermostats ( I have the 7600 right now) to control two heat sources. The heat pump with emergency backup is out as I have no heat pump and I don’t want my condenser running while I’m trying to heat :bash:. So I went to the two stage heat, it works but I can’t configure the settings, I can’t change the temperatures. I called Honeywell to verify my connections they said everything was correct and the only way to use any Honeywell in this configuration is to use the non configurable two stage heat. I’ve attached a picture of what I have done, the yellow lines are how I’m setup in the 2 heat stage mode and it works but the furnace kicks on after about five min of the fan just running so it defats the purpose of running the OWB. I realize I can go the two thermo route – just feel like we are smarter than this problem and I just have the wrong thermo – any thoughts? Trying to stay away from adding switches (I can think of a few ways to do that) and or additionally relays, trying to make this as straight forward for the wife and kids while I’m away on business. HELP!!! :-[
Thanks,
Jamie
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I cant help ya,but hopefully someone can.I am glad I just have a simple old furnace. ;)
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DO you have the G and W jumpered together?
If so, take the wire that would normally go to the G and put it in W2.
Do not use any jumpers on the G wire going to your heat pump.
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Thanks for the reply... no G & W are not jumpered together and no heat pump in this system. The thermo can control one - If I set the thermo to heat pump with emergency backup my condenser runs - If anyone has one thermostat controlling and is configurable for a forces air and OWB please let me know what model I the wiring is pretty straight forward... If I moved the G to W2 is would make the OWB my second heat source with this thermostat....the more digging I do I feel like I'm going to be stuck with two thermos....
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I guess I read your post wrong.
What are the yellow lines? It looked like the one went from the W to the G.
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Why move the G terminal? If you are looking to only run the fan as primary heat and the strip heat as secondary heat I would leave the G and W2 terminal alone and disconnect the W1 and Y terminals. But maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to do.
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Am I reading right now and you put the G wire in the W terminal and the W wire in W2? Is the G terminal empty?
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I appreciate the help - I'll do my best to answer the questions asked in order:
RSI
The yellow lines are where I moved the respective wires.
Yoderheating
Moving the G to the W terminal only runs the fan when the first stage calls for heat (that is working correctly when I set the thermo up as single stage). You may be on to something taking the y out of play on stage one...had not thought of that..I was setting the thermo up as 2(H) 1(C)...
RSI
Yes the G terminal is empty. Is this wrong?
Maybe the easiest way to nail this is tell me how you have set up a single thermostat to control two heat sources, OWB primary and forced hot air (no heat pump) secondary. I just can not seem to find a thermo that is capable of 2 stage heat that will let you control each stage separately. I simply want the OWB as a primary heat source set to say 72 and my forced hot air propane system as a backup set at 67 in one thermo.
Thanks again for all the help - Installing this system was a ton of work and I just can't seem to get over this last hurdle...
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I'm still not clear what heat comes on after 5 mins of the fan running. If its the outdoor unit for the heat pump removing the y terminal should fix that. If its the propane kicking on you most likely have a different problem. Normally propane furnaces have heat sensors that can play with your mind.
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I heat a house and shop with two Honeywell focuspro th5000 series. They are for 2heat/ 2cool systems. They are wired up as directed. The only issue is that if the indoor temp is lets say 70 degrees and u turn the heat on and enter 73 degrees the stat does all it can to reach that temp as fast as possible. It will go ahead and bypass the first stage of heat(OWB) and use gas/propane to meet stat temp. During cold weather i set stats at 73 degrees and don't adjust thermostats temp. The wife will sometimes adjust stat a couple degrees warmer and the propane will kick in since there's a big difference between the setpoint and the indoor temp. Hope this helps!! Good luck!
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I can appreciate the cleanliness on one stat. Wouldn't it be easier to just run two? Put a two wire right next to the original system. That is how I did mine because the headache just wasn't worth it. Propane sets at 60 just in case. OWB does the primary. Untested though. Never had a situation where owb did not do it's job.
Not trying to cause friction, just asking.
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I hear you and I may end up there - this one seems so damn easy....after all the other work done for the OWB. I know it's possible I'm kust not sure there is a thermostat the will let me contorll two heat sources.... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
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n D....I re-read your post and this is exactly what I'm dealing with on EVERY Honeywell I've tried. The techs at Honeywell said it's not configurable on any of their models. So I'm looking at another brand venstar they seem to have what I need - just double checking with their technical support. I'm all about simple - this damn problem is simple - it's finding the solution that is a pain in the a@s.
Thanks for the replies - suggestions appreciated keep em coming.....yes I know two thermos makes this go away
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I have the answer to your problem honey well does not make a thermostat that will control 2 stages of heat with a adjustable timer in between stages the type of thermostat you need is a Tekmar control with a adjustable timer in between stages of heat so if your wood boiler runs out of wood and your temp drops it will fire up second stage of heat by sensing delta t or by a set timer between stages of heat only problem is Tekmar thermostats are expensive
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Did you ever get this resolved? Just picked up a filtrete 3M-50 from Home Depot. Not only did it appear they cover all types of heating systems, but they have tech support from 8am-midnight daily. I have a 19 year old heat pump and this was the second attempt in 10 years to try to install a modern thermostat. This is the one that did it all and worked with my system.
I left my aquastat in play, set the DIFF set point to 4* so the heating strips won't come on and it worked! I programmed it for 70* at night 10pm to 6 am and 73* during the day. I set the swing to 1* which means it drops one full degree before kicking on the fan.
If your still looking, I highly recommend this one!
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No I have not soled this one. just a reminder - no heat pump in my system. Just a propane furnace that I'm trying to keep only as a backup. The Tekmar seem to be where I need to go - they are pricy. Right now I'm using two thermos and it is working fine....just looks like crap.
This seems too easy!! We just need a programmable thermo with 2 stages of heat that has adjustable set points....
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You might might want to look at the Filtrete 3M-50 Thermostat at Home Depot.
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Problem SOLVED
]Well Ridgekid - the Filtrete 30 50 does the trick!! It will work for almost any configuration I can think of using one of our wood boilers. The key is the differential setting that is configurable on the 30 50 between two heat sources. The honeywells wait like 4 min then kick the secondary heat source in to play, not what we want. I was able to set a 10 degree delta between the boiler and my natural gas furnace burner coming on. It works like a charm!!! :thumbup: And the darn thing is wireless with applications to mange it remotely!!!! Here is how its wired for my configuration:
C - common hot to run the Wi-Fi
G - Open
Y - Yellow
W - Green (fan)
R- Red
W2 - White
So when Heat is called for just my forced air fan comes on (W), if the boiler is out of wood or the pump dies and the thermostat sees a 10 degree temperature drop the secondary (w2) comes on. I may shorten the delta so the house doesn't get so cold if there is a problem, but right now I just do not want to use any natural gas!! The free software even has detailed logging to dial you system in.. an example below. Thanks for all that provided input - I appreciate it. If you have any questions, 'll do my best to help you out but this thermostat does the trick!! ;D
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Sweet Thermostat huh? Glad it worked!!! :thumbup:
Now if you want to start doing some real data logging, head over to inthrma.com!! Right now it's still free and this is a new thermostat for that company. (They do proliphix thermostats) NOTE: For data logging to begin, you have to clear your browser cache after you create your account.
I still have the Aquastat controlling which heat source comes on. In other words if I am above 150F OWF temp only the fan kicks on. If I drop below, my heat pump will kick on. I also have Heating strips (AUX heat). Those will kick on if I drop below 4.5* below set point. My setpoints are:
6AM-10PM 74*/Day
10PM - 6AM 71*
SWING 1.5*
DIFF 4.5*
AIR FILTER 45 days
(Heat pump with Aux Heat (Efficient recovery) "B"
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i went through all of that and we finally installed a braeburn thermostat model3200 multi stage 2 heat 2 cool my electrican friend carl ran in to these and put one in his house and it worked good so he put one in my house and it has a settable heat differental mine is set to drop 2 degrees and turn on the blower.boiler go out temp drops 2 degrees the furnace kicks on and we are automaticaly on propain.they are 70.00 dollars but they elimanate the head aches. well worth the money. :) ;D
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Problem SOLVED
]Well Ridgekid - the Filtrete 30 50 does the trick!! It will work for almost any configuration I can think of using one of our wood boilers. The key is the differential setting that is configurable on the 30 50 between two heat sources. The honeywells wait like 4 min then kick the secondary heat source in to play, not what we want. I was able to set a 10 degree delta between the boiler and my natural gas furnace burner coming on. It works like a charm!!! :thumbup: And the darn thing is wireless with applications to mange it remotely!!!! Here is how its wired for my configuration:
C - common hot to run the Wi-Fi
G - Open
Y - Yellow
W - Green (fan)
R- Red
W2 - White
So when Heat is called for just my forced air fan comes on (W), if the boiler is out of wood or the pump dies and the thermostat sees a 10 degree temperature drop the secondary (w2) comes on. I may shorten the delta so the house doesn't get so cold if there is a problem, but right now I just do not want to use any natural gas!! The free software even has detailed logging to dial you system in.. an example below. Thanks for all that provided input - I appreciate it. If you have any questions, 'll do my best to help you out but this thermostat does the trick!! ;D
Hey, sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I just picked up the Filtrete 3M-50 last night. I can't seem to set the DIFF above 4.5 ... I was just wondering how you achieved 10 degrees of differential? I plan to have my setback during the day be 8-10 degrees, so unless I can figure this out, I'll probably have to bring it back :-\
If I can't get it working, I'm just going to mount a snap disc thermal switch on my PEX and have it redirect the heat request signal between the 'heat' pin and the 'fan' pin at the furnace. I'm already planning on using a snap disc thermal switch to run the furnace fan continuously if the water time ever drops below ~45 or so (to prevent freezing), so it would be minimal extra effort. I just liked the idea of being able to see if the boiler is working from the thermostat's screen...
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Reviving an old thread but I read in a review of the Honeywell Th8320 WiFi that a guy successfully used it with his wood boiler and LP gas furnace. No idea how it was wired though. I am still digging as I have the TH8320 already before I installed the boiler.
Ok team – I have worn out the search function on this site and I think I have a fairly simple problem I’m trying to solve, help is appreciated; here it goes:
Looking to run one thermostat to control two heat sources:
System configuration:
- Outdoor boiler on/off on aqua stat in the unit & pump runs 24 x 7 (so no need to control anything out there)
- Inside forced hot air system with water to air heat exchanger
The issue; I’ve tried a number of professional Honeywell thermostats ( I have the 7600 right now) to control two heat sources. The heat pump with emergency backup is out as I have no heat pump and I don’t want my condenser running while I’m trying to heat :bash:. So I went to the two stage heat, it works but I can’t configure the settings, I can’t change the temperatures. I called Honeywell to verify my connections they said everything was correct and the only way to use any Honeywell in this configuration is to use the non configurable two stage heat. I’ve attached a picture of what I have done, the yellow lines are how I’m setup in the 2 heat stage mode and it works but the furnace kicks on after about five min of the fan just running so it defats the purpose of running the OWB. I realize I can go the two thermo route – just feel like we are smarter than this problem and I just have the wrong thermo – any thoughts? Trying to stay away from adding switches (I can think of a few ways to do that) and or additionally relays, trying to make this as straight forward for the wife and kids while I’m away on business. HELP!!! :-[
Thanks,
Jamie