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Author Topic: NCB-250 COAL  (Read 14455 times)

JDfarmer

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NCB-250 COAL
« on: November 26, 2013, 11:16:13 PM »

Does anybody have any advice on the NCB-250 Coal, how to effectively use coal in it.
I've been burning wood mainly, and it works pretty well ( I installed it about 2 months ago). I only get about 8-10 of burn time. It's set at 180F with 15 degree diff. , with the draft door open all the way.
Should I change these settings for longer burn time, and/ or different setting for coal?
What's the best way to burn coal in this unit? Mound it in one area (back or front), or just layer it evenly flat on the shaker grade, or just toss it in between bellow the bricks level?
Or is it better to mix wood and coal?
Also, should I fill up the boiler completely at each re-load, or just put in an approximate amount that it will need till the next re-load.
thank you.
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Scott7m

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 06:10:44 PM »

How many sq ft are you heating?  Thats short burn times

In regard to how to load, a mound cemtered over grates will Work better than a thin layer

The more coal you burn the tighter ur differential will need to be, if your all coal you may need to go down as low as a 3 degree dif or it will go out
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 09:20:04 PM »

How many sq ft are you heating?  Thats short burn times

In regard to how to load, a mound cemtered over grates will Work better than a thin layer

The more coal you burn the tighter ur differential will need to be, if your all coal you may need to go down as low as a 3 degree dif or it will go out

Thanks for the reply;
Our house is 4000+ sqft, very well insulted.
I was wondering about the differential. I was worried that the coal will die out if the boiler is idle for a long time with a larger differential.
The last couple of days; I've been adding about 7 split logs (boiler about 40%-50% full); about 2 foot long, and 12-14 hours later it all burnt down to ashes and some red coal. The water temp goes down by then to 100F.
So, I might have to add more wood, or add coal to the wood. The boiler seem to do better if I add 7-8 logs and about 25 lb of coal in a small mound. If  use both wood and coal, is it ok to still tighten the differential to 3-5 degrees? 170F with 3-5 diff.
Thank you for your help.
 
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Scott7m

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 09:45:48 PM »

Yep, id likely go 180 sp with 175 refire

Is yours a 3/8 or 1/4
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 10:32:12 AM »

I have a 2013 3/8 NCB 250 Coal.

I actually went to amish country to buy organic chicken feed, and steped by a fireplace store. They sell stoves boilers, fireplaces and I buy anthracite coal from them too. I told him my issues; and he went through step by step how he recommend burning coal in the boilers.
So, I went home and did exactly what he said;

1. changed settings to 3 differentials; so I did 180/175 5 diff. that is as low the NCB 250 goes. Cannot not set it to 3 diff.
2. build a FULL bed of coal, as thick as the fire bricks are and as long as the firebox. The intensity of the fire is determined by the air you add to the burning coal not the amount of coal you put in.
3. Don't brother it, poke at it, or do anything to it other than shaking the ask down twice a day.
He said I should get about 24-30+ hours of burn time.

Well, tried it. It's been 16 hours. I have not done anything.
I did have to lower the setting to 175/168 7 diff right at the beginning; because the water temp was getting up to 195 and I was worried it will over heat.
Other than that, I have not touch the boiler for almost 17 hrs. I just checked it because there was no smoke; water temp is at 175F, just like the settings; there is a full bed of hot coal burning. There is virtually no smoke out of the chimney!!!. I first thought my fire went out again like it aways does with wood after 12 hours. But no, the fire just as strong as 17 hours ago.
I hope this keeps up.

My house is 4400sqft and we are heating the water tank too.
 ;D

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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2013, 05:17:38 PM »

We are still going strong. I think I got it figured out. I've been getting 26-28 hrs of burn time with one reload of 4 shovel full of coal.
I finished my chimney last week. The boiler works much better with the 16 foot chimney by the way. No over heating issues like some has predicted that it may happen. NC actually said it's ok to add a 20 foot stack if need to.
Now, there is no smoke at all at the house with the top of the chimney 7+1(clean out T)+16+1(cap)=25 high.
I filled up the entire firebox three days ago with anthracite coal. All the way from front to back and to the top of the fire bricks.
Settings are 175/168 with 7 differential.
Draft 100% fully open.
I have a 16 foot double wall chimney on.
Once the first load burned for 26 hours, I added 4 shovel full of coal, than it goes another 24-28 hours.
I shake the coals down ever 12-16 hours, and empty the ash once every two days. Not full but very important not to let it fill up or the grade can warp I guess.
That's it. It is working way, way, way, better than with wood. And, there is no smoke, or embers coming our at all.

If I load wood only at 10pm, it is almost all died down by 8am. By 10am, the fire would be completely out.
Now, I have 100% coal, and I love being able to go an entire day (yes 24-28 hrs) with just shaking the coals and adding 2-4 shovels full of coal.
I am so much happier with this boiler now.
I hope this helps anybody else wanting to burn coal in the NCB-250 coal.
I tried butanious coal too. Works well, but too smelly, and too many clinkers to clean. With the anthracite coal, no clinkers, just load and shake. I love it.

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Scott7m

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 12:35:43 AM »

Sounds good

the risks of adding chimney are minimal when its new, but after time the tiniest of air leaks that would normally go un noticed could cause a boil over,  but when every thing is right, it does fine

glad your enjoying the ncb
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 09:50:55 AM »

Thank you Scott7m;

I was worried about the over heating with the added chimney, and potential draft. Unfortunately, the way we are in the woods and the wind direction; 25% of the time the smoke was coming towards our house. So, adding the chimney was not an option (according to my wife). How can I prevent air leaks as the boiler gets older? Should I change the seals every year? How often do you spray the seals with WD40?
As I see it there are 3 main places air can leak;
1. Main load door.
2. Ash pan door.
3. Blower rubber seal.
Am I missing something? The boiler is working so incredible well now, I hope it keeps it up, and nothing changes. I do love it now.
Actually, I like having the chimney, because when I open the door now, the smoke all clears through the chimney, and I don't even get my cloths smoky if am heading to work and want to top off the fire.
Thanks again.

Attila
 

Sounds good

the risks of adding chimney are minimal when its new, but after time the tiniest of air leaks that would normally go un noticed could cause a boil over,  but when every thing is right, it does fine

glad your enjoying the ncb

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woodedacres

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 06:29:41 AM »

We are still going strong. I think I got it figured out. I've been getting 26-28 hrs of burn time with one reload of 4 shovel full of coal.
I finished my chimney last week. The boiler works much better with the 16 foot chimney by the way. No over heating issues like some has predicted that it may happen. NC actually said it's ok to add a 20 foot stack if need to.
Now, there is no smoke at all at the house with the top of the chimney 7+1(clean out T)+16+1(cap)=25 high.
I filled up the entire firebox three days ago with anthracite coal. All the way from front to back and to the top of the fire bricks.
Settings are 175/168 with 7 differential.
Draft 100% fully open.
I have a 16 foot double wall chimney on.
Once the first load burned for 26 hours, I added 4 shovel full of coal, than it goes another 24-28 hours.
I shake the coals down ever 12-16 hours, and empty the ash once every two days. Not full but very important not to let it fill up or the grade can warp I guess.
That's it. It is working way, way, way, better than with wood. And, there is no smoke, or embers coming our at all.

If I load wood only at 10pm, it is almost all died down by 8am. By 10am, the fire would be completely out.
Now, I have 100% coal, and I love being able to go an entire day (yes 24-28 hrs) with just shaking the coals and adding 2-4 shovels full of coal.
I am so much happier with this boiler now.
I hope this helps anybody else wanting to burn coal in the NCB-250 coal.
I tried butanious coal too. Works well, but too smelly, and too many clinkers to clean. With the anthracite coal, no clinkers, just load and shake. I love it.

4 shovels full? what size shovel?
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 08:59:34 AM »

4-6 shovels full per day = about 50-60lbs / day. (That's with minimal wood use. If the temperature gets to be warm 50F+ I use wood, because the boiler's fan doesn't come on as much and the coal goes out. Otherwise, no wood.)
 
Which is about right, because 1350lb of coal is a load I get on my tractor, and it will lasts me about three-four weeks  or less.
Our house is large 4000+ sqft, well insulated, and it has been very cold here. Also, we are heating the water tank with the boiler.


We are still going strong. I think I got it figured out. I've been getting 26-28 hrs of burn time with one reload of 4 shovel full of coal.
I finished my chimney last week. The boiler works much better with the 16 foot chimney by the way. No over heating issues like some has predicted that it may happen. NC actually said it's ok to add a 20 foot stack if need to.
Now, there is no smoke at all at the house with the top of the chimney 7+1(clean out T)+16+1(cap)=25 high.
I filled up the entire firebox three days ago with anthracite coal. All the way from front to back and to the top of the fire bricks.
Settings are 175/168 with 7 differential.
Draft 100% fully open.
I have a 16 foot double wall chimney on.
Once the first load burned for 26 hours, I added 4 shovel full of coal, than it goes another 24-28 hours.
I shake the coals down ever 12-16 hours, and empty the ash once every two days. Not full but very important not to let it fill up or the grade can warp I guess.
That's it. It is working way, way, way, better than with wood. And, there is no smoke, or embers coming our at all.

If I load wood only at 10pm, it is almost all died down by 8am. By 10am, the fire would be completely out.
Now, I have 100% coal, and I love being able to go an entire day (yes 24-28 hrs) with just shaking the coals and adding 2-4 shovels full of coal.
I am so much happier with this boiler now.
I hope this helps anybody else wanting to burn coal in the NCB-250 coal.
I tried butanious coal too. Works well, but too smelly, and too many clinkers to clean. With the anthracite coal, no clinkers, just load and shake. I love it.

4 shovels full? what size shovel?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 09:02:49 AM by ati53 »
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Scott7m

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 07:59:22 PM »

Yep keep the door adjusted, probably change rope gaskets a little more often than normal just for precautionary reasons, likely every 2-3 seasons would work

keep an eye on the rubber flap, ive seen them dry rot before
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 08:50:42 PM »

Thank you Scott7m. Can I wipe the rubber flapper with ARMOR ALL that you use on car interiors and tires? I was wondering if that would help prevent it from cracking. Or just replace it as needed?
Also, when I got my boiler the dealer sprayed the rope seals (door, and ash pan) with WD-40. He said it prevents the creosol build up. Should I spay the rope seals periodically with the WD40? I mainly burn coal 80%, and 20% wood.

thank you



Yep keep the door adjusted, probably change rope gaskets a little more often than normal just for precautionary reasons, likely every 2-3 seasons would work

keep an eye on the rubber flap, ive seen them dry rot before

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woodedacres

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 07:16:39 PM »

okay, ncb250coal unit. decided to try ant coal again. bought 5 50 lb bags of reading nut coal. put 3 bags in to start with to fill up to the fire brick and started a fire. got it going and boy did it burn hot. have my stat set at 175° with a 3° diff. draft wide open. this was at 2:30pm. just checked it here at 8:30pm and there is plenty of coal still fire was dismal and the stove was down to 167°. it really seems like it is starving for air. i took a hoe and moved the coal around and the coal on the bottom was molten lava caked to together and i noticed it no longer sounded like a blast furnace like it did when i first lit it. after i moved the coal around the fire came back. it got crazy hot again and sounded like a blast furnace again. stove came up to 169° in ten minutes. any ideas why it is doing this? ati53 advises not to touch it but didn't think it was ever going to recover if i didn't. consumption seemed minimal over the period.
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 08:57:42 PM »

I would leave it alone and see what happens.
Does it drop down to 140f, or does it come back up to 175f
I have my 250coal set at 175, 170 5 diff. It goes between 165 to 190.
Big swings; however I load it and leave it alone for 12 hrs. You should test;
Does it keep the house warm? Does it cool down to 140 , or does it heat up to 200.
When my stove is idle/blower is off it will look exactly what you described; red hot in the bottom. If you stir it it will come up roaring because air is getting in through the open door.
Coal fire with the blower off will look dead. It isn't. You need the differential close together otherwise the coal fire will go out. Just trust me. I heated with coal in eastern Europa for 20 years. My grandfathers brother was a black smith.
Coal will only burn if it get air. No air for longer than 1 hr or so , coal fire especially Anthrocite will go out.
Keep the differential between 3-7. 175/170/5 diff is perfect. It will swing from 165-190. Mine does for sure.
Just try it.
Stop messing with it:)
Call me so I can explain. I sent you mine number.
Coal is very tricky. It's not like wood. Wood you have to move, poke, rake.
Coal you load and go away.
Call me.

okay, ncb250coal unit. decided to try ant coal again. bought 5 50 lb bags of reading nut coal. put 3 bags in to start with to fill up to the fire brick and started a fire. got it going and boy did it burn hot. have my stat set at 175° with a 3° diff. draft wide open. this was at 2:30pm. just checked it here at 8:30pm and there is plenty of coal still fire was dismal and the stove was down to 167°. it really seems like it is starving for air. i took a hoe and moved the coal around and the coal on the bottom was molten lava caked to together and i noticed it no longer sounded like a blast furnace like it did when i first lit it. after i moved the coal around the fire came back. it got crazy hot again and sounded like a blast furnace again. stove came up to 169° in ten minutes. any ideas why it is doing this? ati53 advises not to touch it but didn't think it was ever going to recover if i didn't. consumption seemed minimal over the period.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 09:25:17 PM by ati53 »
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JDfarmer

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Re: NCB-250 COAL
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 09:54:58 PM »

Woodedacre;
I never had a coal boiler, we always used a coal fireplace. I can tell you, a boiler is different from a fireplace. In a fireplace you set the air vent so the fire is burning but not raging and not so little that it goes out.
Remember, with coal the limiting factor is air. More air, more fire. You can light 1 ton coal, if you adjust the airflow it will burn for a month. Very different from wood.
So, just imitate how you would burn coal in a fire place to a boiler.
In a fireplace you need a constant flow of air so the coal bed is burning but not raging but also not so little that the fire goes out.
In the boiler it's more difficult because of the on off cycle of the fan. So, you fan needs to come on frequent enough so the coal keeps burning but not so infrequent that it goes out. 1-2 hr off, and it might be out. Especially anthrocite. That's why it's a good idea to mix anthrocite with bit coal that keep lit longer than anthrocite.
Anyway, so you must keep the setting of the diff small to imitate a steady airflow. In my 250coal it's anywhere from 5-7. If its warm outside 5, if its a cold day more like 7. I keep it at 5. And it works great.
Now, coal is like a train, once it goes it goes with a momentum. Once a coal fire is lit it gives out tremendous energy. So when the fan shuts off, the train is going and the fire will keep heating the water which will over shoot in temperature. Mine goes 10F over the top settings. So I set my top at 170-172, and I get 180f top.
Now, like a train coal fire takes a lot to get it moving. Watch the fan kick in. Nothing happens for minutes. It take some time for the coal fire to gear up again. There fore your bottom number may fluctuate too.
Mine is set at 170/165/5diff. I get readings 160-185-190 even. I really don't care. If you have a coal fireplace do you keep measuring the surface temperature? Never ever. What do you measure? Is the room warm enough.
Do the same with then boiler.
Just try this trust me;
Set it 175/170/5 diff or anywhere 3-7.
Mix anthrocite with bit coal, or anthrocite and 2-3 logs.
Load/ fill up the entire firebox with coal up to the fire bricks front to back. 3-4 bags.
Lite it (I use pre soaked match lite charcoal for easy lighting).

Once lit, about 30 min; please don't mess with it. No looking, no poking, no nothing.

After 12 hrs very gently shake the ashes off for 15'sec. Gently, don't let the unburned coal fall down between the grates. The rule is shake till you see red ash fall down in the ash pan. Than stop when you see red ash in the ash pan. Difficult in a boiler to see. So shake gently for 10-15 second and stop. No steering, poking, raking, or nothing. If its very cold out, you would normally add 3-4 shovel of coals. Not at the first 12 hrs after lighting it. 3-4 bags of anthrocite will heat my 4500 sqft house and water tank for 26 hrs.
Just try it, mine is working awesome just doing it this very way.
If your's won't there has to be something wrong with the boiler or how you operate it, or the installation, or all. 
Since you have been heating with wood no problem, I really think that you just have to get used to heating burning  with coal. It's much much more difficult than wood at first.
Again, anthrocite is actually the most difficult coal to burn. So, if you can burn bit. coal, that would be about 100 times easier.
Bit coal burns like wood. Ohio bit coal smells like Satan just came over for supper but boy it burns. Most people burn ky bit coal, with great luck. It has less sulfur,and much cleaner. I love anthrocite because it's so clean. No, smell, so smoke. Awesome. However, very hard to light, and very hard to keep burning.
I mix it with bit coal. It help to keep the fire more steady. I put a football size bit coal in the firebox on sat at 3pm. It's 50%burnt at Sunday at 7pm. Wow.
 If you change your diff to higher than 7 I will guarantee you, the fire will go out. Especially if its only, 35-40f outside; too warm.

Again remember, coal fire will over shoot the top number; so at 170/165/5. You get 180+/160/ actual differential is 20+ even though you set it at 5diff. So, the fan will not kick in until the temp drops from 180+ to 160!!!!!! In a 45 F day, that could be 2-3 hrs. The coal will go out for sure.

If you have settings 180/165/15 diff like you would with wood burning, with coal you will get;
195/155+/40!!!!!diff. Remember you said that last year those were your setting when you tried to burn anth coal, and the fire kept going out? Are you surprised now that the coal fire went out with an actual diff of 40 degrees? In a warmer day it will take hours and hours for 250 gallons of insulated water to drop 40 degrees for the fan to kick in!!! That is just not happening with coal. Not ever.

 The diff has to be 3-7 no more. Just keep it at 5 for now.
Let me know how it went.



« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:09:34 PM by ati53 »
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