Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: merrellroofing on March 21, 2011, 10:09:58 AM
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Central Boiler 6048 for $8030
Natures Comfort 325 for $7980
You get a few more pieces with the NCB (1 pump & maybe a few others) but for the little price difference 6048 looks pretty good
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I've have a 6048 for about 4 seasons now, have had no problems with it. Can't tell you about the NCB, and I'm sure it's a good unit, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another CB. Gonna be hard to find a person with experience from both units... Good luck...
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I am new at this. But i would go with a Hawken 2100 I had a 6048 what a pile of junk. I am heating 6000 sq feet with the cb i burn about 60 face cord with the hawken hawken about 20 face cord and put on the biger pump on 1/6 hp the heating is so much hotter. I hope this will help you in any way.
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The NCB325G does qualify for the $300 tax credit if that helps.
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I was looking at a 2100 but with all the things you read on here Hawken kind of scared me. How long have you been running yours?
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I don't know if I'd call the CB "a pile of junk"... I may be a little biased, but I wouldn't call any of the popular brands that are named on the main page of this forum, a pile of junk. They all do the job very well. Some better than others.
In case you didn't know... CB is kinda popular.
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Well if you must ask i had the dealer out 15 time in the frist year with cb every thing that went wrong went wrong had it for 3 years. Then the spray foam coulk on fire it took half a year to get my money out of cb. That when i look at the hawken 2100 it hold 370 gallon of water. Had this for 3 years with out a bit of trouble the dealer is very experince in the outdoor woodstove he has been installing then for 18 years. I have talk to other that had the cb and the hawken dealer has replace 12 popular brands. I know hawken had trouble in the past with the gh stove but it was a bad deal and they got in middle. But there new stove is very very good unit. I have look at 15 popular brands of stoves before buying hawken.
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I went to see a hawken 2100 in action last night. There is a new dealer about ten minutes from my house. He just had installed at christmas and it is his first unit so most here have more knowledge on owb than me or him. I thought it looked pretty good except it looked like the fire caulk around the chimney was already burning out. I assume you get that with any model that pipes thru the roof. And when the fan kicked on, man was that thing smokin.
I also got a price from Burnrite, Which is here in Mt. Pleasant. They have a very similar model to the 2100. It is built much stronger and is almost twice the weight of the 2100. I saw the smaller models from burnrite and was very impressed, but the price on the big one was almost 9g's and only a 10 year warranty. But to me it looked to be far superior build quality than the 2100.
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I own an Empyre, my father-in law has the CB6048, a friend has a NC, not sure what model number. You'd think I'd be biased, but I'm not. I have done boat loads of research like it sounds like you have, and from what I've seen and read, the Portage and Main is by far the best Wood boiler out there. I drove down to Louisville Ky. about 5 weeks ago and looked at every manufacturer there, and the Portage and Main guys were the only ones who gave realistic efficiency ratings for their units. Some of the manufacturers actually want you to believe that their boilers will get more than 90% thermal efficiencies out of their gasifiers and as high as 75% out of their non-gasifier units. (one dealer actually told me that theirs tested at 107% at the EPA test site) Anyone on this site can tell you that that is simply not possible unless you started with wood that is at 0% moisture. Brian with Portage and Main(I don't know what position he holds with the company) gave me and everyone else that was in attendance realistic expectations of what today's modern boilers can achieve. As far as efficiencies are concerned, there isn't squat for difference between any of the top 5 or 6 players, so to me an investment like this has to boil(pun intended) down to construction and manufacturer support. The Portage and Mains are easy to work on if you have to, and the way they are welded together is better than any that I've come across. At the end of this burning season I am going to get rid of my Pro 100 and drive more than 100 miles to buy a Portage and Main. That's if spring ever gets here!
That's my 5 cents.
P.S. Anyone interested in a 6 month old Empyre Pro Series 100?
Marty
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The problem is with the burn rite 4100 when you to steel in the fire box at 3/8 you loss a lot of heat transfer and out the chimmy it go. If you could find a steel that would hold up at 10 gauge you get 75% more heat transfer. And the other thing when you buy a canada stove if you have a problem it will cost you a 1000.00 to get it there and back. I look at a lot of stoves and the hawken is best for your buck at 6800.00 20 years warranty 1/4" fire box and water jacket and the water treatment is very best on the market by certfied lab they test the water not you then they tell you what to do.
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The NC325G has a 1/4 firebox and a water jacket around the chimney to reclaim the heat before it escapes out the chimney. Nature's Comfort has a computer model of the waterflow inside the boiler. They use this modeling software to determine where to put deverters in the waterflow stream so there is a consistant temperature throughout the boiler. The NC325G also has a secondary air tube at the top of the firebox to help promote gasification. All of the NC boilers are lazer cut and robot welded.
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So how do they get the water to come up out of tha tube that goes on the chimney. Seems like sitting water to me.
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I am new at this. But i would go with a Hawken 2100 I had a 6048 what a pile of junk. I am heating 6000 sq feet with the cb i burn about 60 face cord with the hawken hawken about 20 face cord and put on the biger pump on 1/6 hp the heating is so much hotter. I hope this will help you in any way.
I do not own a CB but have read a lot and know a few people who do, I do not know anything about Hawken nor do I have anything against them, but there is no way I believe your wood consumption would be 1/3 of the CB,unless there was something seriously wrong with your CB. There are many very happy CB owners and I doubt they are "junk"
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So how do they get the water to come up out of tha tube that goes on the chimney. Seems like sitting water to me.
From that reply I see you have not looked at a Nature's Comfort in person yet.
You should really try looking at actual boilers instead of just going off the internet. Everyone says theirs is the best on the internet but when you look at the actual stoves you see the real differences.
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As a matter of fact I have. My friend is a NC dealer. He just got his stove and became a dealer a few months ago. His is a 250 and it is his first owb so his knowledge is fairly green. I have also seen CB, Hawken, Burnrite and Heiss in person. Only ones nearby. I am just trying to gain knowledge from people with more experience who may or may not know what they are talking about. Big $$$ so I hope to do it right and be happy.
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The 250 is a similar design. Just look inside the firebox and you will see the waterjacket around the chimney. There are no actual tubes. It does not go any higher than the main waterjacket and the water is pumped through it. (internal water flow, can't see that). The 325G has a much longer jacket around the chimney than the 250 because it is a taller firebox.
I think you will find most people like whatever brand they have until it has something go wrong. I used to have a Pacific Western and thought it was good till it cracked. After the experience with them I would never even consider any boiler built in Canada.
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I'm looking at the Natures Comfort also but leaning towards a Legend. For you the Legend may be interesting as it is made in N Carolina, a modification to a Taylor as I understand.
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The more moveing parts the more welding more electronics and ash pans more prolbems! Talk to lot of people with diffence stoves. Hawken stove in simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jonserd 2188
jonserd 2172
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The more moveing parts the more welding more electronics and ash pans more prolbems! Talk to lot of people with diffence stoves. Hawken stove in simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jonserd 2188
jonserd 2172
Aqua-Therm a very simple furnace as well ..Only moving parts is the pump, fan and the solenoid that lifts the flap off the fan...
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As you can see most people will say whatever they have is best. What it really comes down to is it is a firebox with water around it. Not rocket science. There are only so many things that can be different and most don't make that much difference.
Personally I wouldn't consider anything without an ash pan and forced draft from under the fire. I also wouldn't consider anything made in Canada if you consider the warranty worth anything.
These are just my opinions but I did use a Pacific Western for 8 winters which is where they came from. If you asked me about it 5 or 6 years ago, I would have been it not knowing what I know now and how much better they work with a grate and ash drawer.
If you find pictures of a pacific Western, compare it to other brands still on the market. There are a lot of other brands that look very similar. I don't know if they are coming out of the same factory or just copies but I sure wouldn't want a copy of a bad design.
If you get a quality built boiler that has been robot welded the welds are probably the strongest part of the boiler.
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RSI is right... There's not much too these things. I think the biggest difference in stoves is the fan or no fan thing. And not very many more differences than that. Either way, you're gonna find everybody will probably defend their brand to the death... RSI likes the ones with the fans... I personally don't.
I think any of the brands listed on this forum would be much better than burning gas. Either way, you'll save a ton of money.
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RSI is right... There's not much too these things. I think the biggest difference in stoves is the fan or no fan thing. And not very many more differences than that. Either way, you're gonna find everybody will probably defend their brand to the death... RSI likes the ones with the fans... I personally don't.
I think any of the brands listed on this forum would be much better than burning gas. Either way, you'll save a ton of money.
Good call...Its like buying a car..Ford, Chevy, or foreign..Bottom line is they all serve the same purpose - burn wood and not foreign oil..Im a huge fan of all OWBS..I think its great when someone invest in one..Some are simple.. some are more advance ..like buying a car lol..Either way all are great....
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Maybe you guys can help me make sense of this.
CB 6048-390 gallons Rated for I think 5 or 6000 sq.ft.
Hawken 10000-360 gallons rated for 10000
Burnrite 228 gallons-rated for 6500
Portage&Main ML36 190 gallons rated for 8000
Natures Comfort 325 gallons rated for 8000
I know they like to inflate the sq.ft. rating and I have seen both sides of the argument.(More water you have to heat less times, less water heats quicker)
I got a decent price on a P&M ML36 and I have heard good things about them but not sure about 190 gallons heating 8000 sq.ft. I think I am going to check it out this weekend. Also, opinions on P&M.
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If I was looking for a furnace I would throw all the manufactures hype out the window and look at the design. First you want a furnace that will produce a hot fire because it will burn cleaner and more completely uses all the btu's in the wood. You can get this from either a furnace that uses a forced draft preferably below the fire or by using a secondary burn chamber ( a gasifier). Secondly you want some way of transferring this heat into the water. Stay away from furnaces where the smoke travels a very short distance before exiting the furnace. You want to be looking for baffles, bypasses or some other way of capturing the heat produced.
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I have the P&M ML30 and it makes a lot of heat. My dealer has the ML36 heating his house and 2 shop areas. The P&M stoves named here are not gassifiers but they do force the air up through the ashes to make a hot fire and the smoke has 2 long horizontal runs through the water jacket before going out and up at the back. I have had mine going for 2 months now and have never seen a single spark come out of the pipe and that is burning without a chimney cap. That tells me they are capturing most of the heat. There are plenty of good stoves, my only other recomendation is to stay away from stainless fire boxes as stainless is a poor transfer of heat and as such will warp and crack faster than a carbon steel box. Good luck.
Gary
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I went to see a hawken 2100 in action last night. There is a new dealer about ten minutes from my house. He just had installed at christmas and it is his first unit so most here have more knowledge on owb than me or him. I thought it looked pretty good except it looked like the fire caulk around the chimney was already burning out. I assume you get that with any model that pipes thru the roof. And when the fan kicked on, man was that thing smokin.
I also got a price from Burnrite, Which is here in Mt. Pleasant. They have a very similar model to the 2100. It is built much stronger and is almost twice the weight of the 2100. I saw the smaller models from burnrite and was very impressed, but the price on the big one was almost 9g's and only a 10 year warranty. But to me it looked to be far superior build quality than the 2100.
I have a burnrite and like it a lot. As far as strong built not many can compete. I looked at a cb but do a search on craigslist and its full of people wanting to get rid of their used central boilers. So figure it out I guess. As far as a hawken they seem nice but a stove to me is all about weight cuz steel weighs LBS.
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Maybe you guys can help me make sense of this.
CB 6048-390 gallons Rated for I think 5 or 6000 sq.ft.
Hawken 10000-360 gallons rated for 10000
Burnrite 228 gallons-rated for 6500
Portage&Main ML36 190 gallons rated for 8000
Natures Comfort 325 gallons rated for 8000
I know they like to inflate the sq.ft. rating and I have seen both sides of the argument.(More water you have to heat less times, less water heats quicker)
I got a decent price on a P&M ML36 and I have heard good things about them but not sure about 190 gallons heating 8000 sq.ft. I think I am going to check it out this weekend. Also, opinions on P&M.
like mentioned stay away from stainless my old royall made it 4 years and cracked on alot of welds.........not shure on there new models?.........my neighbor has a p&m thats designed for 8,000 sq ft. very nice unit....very well built and heavy duty, his owb is about 4-5 years old now and he's had to have a blower motor changed this year.....first thing i think he has done to it that i know of......other than maintance....good owb in my book....
I like my indoor that runs off draft ,no blower and works really well.....(www.nationalstoveworks.com (http://www.nationalstoveworks.com)) there website they do make out door also....if your intrested....if not no big deal.....they are a good company to deal with and they do back there products..... good luck and let us know what you get....
kelly
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I have a Hawken 2100 and love it so far, First year on it, but went with them because the customer service has been great on getting answers to questions and they even came out to help with an on-site evaluation for location and set-up options. Did the install myself and they were more than helpful when I would call with a question.
They have evn checked to see how it has been operating since the install.
Our CB dealer in the area is more interested in the sale, I have 2 friends with thier boilers and they say trying to get service is like pulling teeth.
As far as Burnrite, I was very interested in thier stove. But when I called up the salesman to talk about them and go look at one in use, he was to busy. Tried to set up a couple of appointments to go look at them and he was always to busy.
I figured with this kind of customer service I definitly didn't want thier product.
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Update. I bought a 1 year old used cb 6048. Guy was losing his house and just wanted payoff. On my second season and wish I would have done it long ago. I might have bought a burn rite but the 228 was the biggest model at the time. Their dealer lives 1mile from me and I visited him a few times. Even after getting a good deal I still have 10,000 into it, but it was money well spent.