Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: Atwelltony on November 30, 2013, 04:48:50 PM
-
Hi
I'm new to this forum and I was wanting to get some feedback from other heatmaster users I purchased my MF 10000e 2 years ago I'm doing a lot of work with it and it burns 24hours a day 365 days a year since I've owned it, we noticed when we were filling the tank a couple weeks ago the water was coming out all around the roof line we contacted our dealer he asked us to pull the roof off and inspect it so we did to our surprise we had holes rusted or burnt thru the tank and I noticed how thin the tank was and I thought man that's paper thin but my dealer said that was the industry standard.so they said I may have bad water and I asked if I had bad water why did the water tests I sent heatmaster over last 2 years come back ok,so I took a waters sample last week and sent to a local lab came back good ph was perfect and there was some lime in my water but I live in wv there is lime in everyone water that lives in country any feedback or advise would be greatly appreciated
One good thing heatmaster has sent my dealer a new tank and they are going to fix it for me but I'm worried with constant use it may happen again
Thanks for everyone's time on this subject
Tony Atwell
Princeton wv
Www.tgsales.com (http://Www.tgsales.com)
Owner
-
Scott should have some good insight for you soon.
-
Honestly thats the first one ive ever heard of doing that. It didnt burn through though, you should have been looking at the top of the water jacket when you took the roof off.
As far as steel thickness, its 10 guage 409.
I sure wish you were close to me id love to see if I could figure out why it happpened. Was there a huge heat load on it? What temps were you running at?
-
Hi and thanks for the reply it actually got all the holes close to the chimney the average temp is 180 or so I really like all the features of the stove just trying to figure out what went wrong
-
Yes there is a huge load on it daily
-
Here is a pic of the holes close to chimney
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Another pic
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
-
Just so everyone knows, ill be contacting hm to find out what happened here, I wanna know for personal reasons and well to find out what we can do to prevent it, one thing for sure is they'll take care of it
-
Yea Heat Master will take care of you, I wouldn't worry about that. I want to find out what happened as well. The only time I've ever seen something like that is when there was a lot of salt in the water.
-
Looks like some type of metal corrosion. With all of the useless warranties in this industry I will really like to know how Heatmaster treats you and what they do to fix it.
-
I would like to mention my dealer is really first class, whenever we have had any issues he is right on the issue and has it corrected quickly. You don't see that to often in today's world
Again thanks for any input on this issue
-
Looks like some type of metal corrosion. With all of the useless warranties in this industry I will really like to know how Heatmaster treats you and what they do to fix it.
yea heatmaster will be all over it im sure...
-
None of my buisness but just for my curiosity I will ask anyway, did you have an uninsulated / extended stack on it? Scot is the stack as well stainless ?
-
Never had extended stack on it
-
Yes, its def a double wall stainless stack out of the top
it didnt "burn out" tho, this looks like some type of corrosion I just find it odd that its right around the stack, thats the top of the water jacket we see there
-
Scott, by design could that area of the water jacket trap an air pocket? I am wondering if the stack leaving there could have boiled water constantly in that location.
-
Its possible if it were under huge load and the heat exchanger in top was getting nasty and not letting exhaust cool enough
im wondering if he ever burned anything besides firewood as well for reasons along the same line u mention
-
Looks like corrosion on the outside of the tank to me. Something nasty dripping out of the flue?
-
We burn mostly coal this is at a commercial location we use it to heat a manufacturing facility puts out great heat
-
The corrosion Def came from the inside nothing dripped on tank it's hard to see it but u can see the metal actually gone more on the inside than on outside my dealer said it Def came from inside to out I'm hoping heat master can she'd some light for us we have alot of curious people up this way also
-
The corrosion Def came from the inside nothing dripped on tank it's hard to see it but u can see the metal actually gone more on the inside than on outside my dealer said it Def came from inside to out I'm hoping heat master can she'd some light for us we have alot of curious people up this way also
ill call tomorrow to ask how why and how, thats one of the strangest things ive seen
-
Curious to hear more info on this issue.
-
After the stove got the holes in it heat master wanted another water sample , I just got the results back today from them , they said all was fine so we still have no clue what could have done this we also noticed that our float is in bad shape the ball that is on the end of has seemed to rust off and the float tube is in bad shape also,,,,,,,
-
I know we'll know much more about this situation after the stove is repaired
but I find it strange so much corrosion is taking place in your unit when myself and other dealers have handled hundreds and never seen any
im guessing there is something in the water we are not testing for....
u ever had any other issues with this unit or the system in general
-
Yea there has to be something in the water that is killing everything. I'm sure Heat Master will take care of your problem and this will most likely give them a chance to do more testing to see what is causing it.
-
I would be curious to talk to someone who uses a heat master stove year round with a hard load daily I've spoken to several guys that use them but haven't found any one that uses as much as we do
-
How many pumps have you went through?
Ive got piles of customers who burn year around, I have never seen "any" corrosion whatsoever!
It has nothing to do with how much you use the stove tho
-
Coal is very corrosive. Any chance that a small pin hole leak in the flue was letting flue gas into the top of the water jacket around the flue and causing the corrosion?
-
We have went thru several pumps and valves since we have had it I'm the owner of tg sales and I have a guy that maintains the stove so I'm not for sure of the exact# but my guy has kept a detail list of issues and parts we have had to replace I will get it from him next week and post what we have changed and how often maybe that will tell u something also thanks for the reply on u have customers using it year round I'm glad to hear that
Thanks again for any help
-
Yea that is extremely uncommon to go through any pumps in a couple years, none the less several
never heard of valves rusting either
something is in there thats verrrry corrosive
-
The best we can tell we have went thru 5 pumps, a relay, and a couple of valves that are mounted in the plumbing from the stove to my house one thing we have noticed the second pump on the stove is a shorter run and we haven't had to change that pump it's only been the pumps on the house side that has went out over and over since they are pumping the same water would that lessen the possibility of something corrosive? So to narrow it down the pump that runs our shop heaters so far has had no trouble, the circuit that goes to my house and pool have 2 pumps stacked one on top of the other and they are wired to never shut off they keep the water circulating , these are the pumps I've had to change my dealer came last week and changed them again
Any ideals
-
What kind of pool and any trouble with it?
-
What does your exchanger system look like for the pool?
-
I think we now see a red flag on what this could be....
What type of pool?
-
It's a titanium heat exchanger for my pool
It's a salt water pool
-
The pool heat exchanger looks good no issues with the titanium
-
No trouble with pool
-
Note on pool heat exchangers from what I've been told u need a titanium with salt water pools and not the stainless we have had issues with the stainless heat exchangers leaking around where the fitting flanges are welded to the exchanger , we would get a pin hole
-
Note on pool heat exchangers from what I've been told u need a titanium with salt water pools and not the stainless we have had issues with the stainless heat exchangers leaking around where the fitting flanges are welded to the exchanger , we would get a pin hole
If one of the tiny tubed inside the shell had a pin hole that would explain it all
-
So what are u thinking could be the cause?
-
I've heard if you get salt into the water jacket it will eat the stainless out.
-
That def would be a possibility
I'm going to try and get some more water tests from a advanced lab out west I think they can shed some light on things
Thanks for all the replys and input on this subject and I would also like to note that heatmaster has stood behind this 100% they have sent us a new tank and our dealer is waiting for warm weather to change it out so regardless what the problem we are a totale satisfied heatmaster customer and we highly recommend there products and service
Tony Atwell
Tg manf.and sales
Www.tgsales.com (http://Www.tgsales.com)
-
Tony,
SO happy to hear that Heatmaster is backing you up and has taken care of you. While I've had zero issues with my setup, its nice to know that if I do, they will be there for us.
If it was me, Id be doing a 24hr leak down pressure test on that Titanium Heat exchange ASAP before opening that loop back up again once you are up and running. It would be interesting to go back in time and see if your tank levels were fluctuating at all. Salt is such a PITA :) As stated, this may be the issue, even in small doses.
-
That is good advise we actually did a test this past month to make sure no pool water was getting into the stove we had a plumber who was installing a sterling water softener system for us unhook the lines at the pool loop and he ran a vacuum and pressure test ,,,, everything was good
We did have another lab run some tests for us that could check for chlorine and they said there was no trace of it or salt so we are still investigating
Very glad to hear you haven't had any issues with your unit I'm hoping we got a lemon and the next one will be trouble free
-
Any updates on this ?
-
We haven't been able to put a finger on what has caused this all of our water tests have come back good and the independent lab we hired could not find anything corrosive in the water or with a metal sample
They said it just seemed to rust thru
But we are still investigating if we come up with anything we will post it
-
Didnt you previously have a failed heat exchanger??
-
Did you fine out what the problem was ? Did they stand behind the warranty ?
-
I spoke with the local dealer today. There have been two failed heat pool exchangers over the last two years on this system. The titanium heat exchanger that is on it now is working correctly hence the good water tests. With the type of failure I think its fairly certain that water contamination was the cause. Be that as it may Heat Master is covering everything and has sent a new water jacket/firebox to the dealer, I saw it today on his lot. As soon as the furnace can be shut down and overhauled they are going to take care of it but with it working now that may be spring. Just thought everyone would want an update.
-
I spoke with the local dealer today. There have been two failed heat pool exchangers over the last two years on this system. The titanium heat exchanger that is on it now is working correctly hence the good water tests. With the type of failure I think its fairly certain that water contamination was the cause. Be that as it may Heat Master is covering everything and has sent a new water jacket/firebox to the dealer, I saw it today on his lot. As soon as the furnace can be shut down and overhauled they are going to take care of it but with it working now that may be spring. Just thought everyone would want an update.
Yes thanks for sharing
It sounds like someone was trying to use stainless steel heat exchangers on a saltwater pool. That will not work and will destroy the entire system
-
Good to know - Thanks for the update guys.
Funny how I used to hear "Stainless Steel" and think it was invincible to most anything. Didn't even know they made titanium Heat exchangers. Good stuff to know :)
Awesome Job Heatmaster for helping your Customers even when you may have been able to wiggle out of it. I think this speak volumes about your integrity and I for one couldn't be happier with my purchase of the 10KE and have the utmost faith in your company. I'm impressed.
Lessons learned. Time for another addendum to the installation manual :D
-
I would like to update the status on this,heatmaster and my dealer fully took care of everything ,fixed my stove got it up going great at no cost to us,I would like to extend my appreciation to my dealer David Yoder and also heatmaster for standing behind there warranty both are very reputable company's and also to the guys on the forum for putting there input in.
Highly recommend heatmaster stoves there's somebody on the other end of the deal looking out for u!!
Tony Atwell
Tg sales
-
GREAT JOB guys, A heartfelt CUDO'S from one of your direct competitors!
-
Chlorine is a total b%$!# on steels... even the expensive $$$ 316L stainless does not hold up well to chlorinated pool water.
What titanium alloy is used for a pool water heat exchanger? Very curious.
BTW... if you did not know, chlorine, bromine, etc. are oxidizers and attack nearly all metals if the pool water falls below 7.2.
Best advice? Monitor and keep your pool water pH in check (usually 7.2 to 7.6).
-
Sloppy, I didn't go back and read, but if I remember correctly, this guy had a saltwater pool, not a chlorinated one. A stainless heat exchanger works fine with chlorine and bromine if the PH is in check like you said. But the saltwater requires a titanium exchanger. And it sounds like that's what went bad and infiltrated the stove water and rotted out the water jacket.
Glad that Heatmaster stood behind their warranty!! Makes me optimistic about my future with my stove!