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46
Crown Royal / Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
« on: July 16, 2019, 03:24:46 PM »
According to Warren Walborn, the top boiler expert in the world, nobody makes a 2020 compliant stove yet except some patent pending technology that he holds. What will you be installing in lieu of the Crown Royal? Is Hawken making a comeback?
47
Plumbing / Re: Radiant walls
« on: July 16, 2019, 03:19:48 PM »
Depending on finish, maybe. I'd have to look in the paperwork but I want to say the max temp for Quik-Trak was 140
48
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: July 14, 2019, 09:22:46 AM »Well, I know for a fact I can heat my 32x48 for under $250 with $.89 LP so there's that. Little things called design temp and heating degree days will tell that tale every time with a heat loss calc. Sorry about your poor insulation and poor heater efficiency, my math was simply a correlation of the BTU usage estimated by you- which was obviously way wrong. Surely didn't mean to strike a chord with you and I'm sorry for trying to help. Enjoy processing 5-6 cord of wood every year to heat your garageYou sound like our heat pump loving salesman where I work as a HVAC service tech. I sure get tired of trying to explain to customers why the bill was higher and they didn’t save the money they were told 😂😂😂.
Those heat pump people are all the same lol. I'm not trying to sell a darn thing though, just weighing options on paper. If I was trying to push the gas I sure wouldn't be on a wood boiler forum and be burning wood myself. However if I didn't have 3 buildings and 6800 sq ft of space and a sidewalk to heat, that would likely change. My 32x48 was just put up and I did the math on it, debating whether it made more sense to dig a lineset from the boiler or just run it on gas. It came out very close dollar-wise but that's with having the OWB already in place, so the extra wood isn't a huge deal because I'm bringing some in anyway. Spending $6-8k on a unit and processing firewood solely to heat a 1500 sq ft garage just doesn't pan out financially unless the heat loss is tremendous and cutting wood is a hobby. Processing the quantity of wood that Pointblank will need to satisfy his garage would take quite a few hours, so if your time is worth anything or you were to put that time in getting paid at work instead of bucking wood for free it doesn't make financial sense. I, for one, do not enjoy cutting and splitting and hauling and stacking firewood but my time is worth little enough that it still works out financially.
49
Crown Royal / Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
« on: July 13, 2019, 08:54:12 AM »
So did your customer get those numbers from his dealer yet?
50
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: July 13, 2019, 08:50:34 AM »
Well, I know for a fact I can heat my 32x48 for under $250 with $.89 LP so there's that. Little things called design temp and heating degree days will tell that tale every time with a heat loss calc. Sorry about your poor insulation and poor heater efficiency, my math was simply a correlation of the BTU usage estimated by you- which was obviously way wrong. Surely didn't mean to strike a chord with you and I'm sorry for trying to help. Enjoy processing 5-6 cord of wood every year to heat your garage
51
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: July 09, 2019, 03:40:11 PM »
As I have already mentioned, my point was to do your homework if the objective is to save money. Seeing as you have no interest in doing the homework, you will simply be throwing $hit at a wall. Enjoy.
52
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: July 06, 2019, 08:11:24 AM »
But you did base the whole subject on wood usage- which directly correlates to the amount of LP that would be used to put out the same amount of heat. X amount of wood has a certain BTU output, just like gas does. There is a direct correlation between the two, so X amount of wood is equivalent to X amount of LP. If you couldn't heat it on the amount of LP I specified, you couldn't heat it on the amount of wood you specified
53
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: July 02, 2019, 05:10:17 PM »
First of all, you gave the estimated heat load by saying 2-3 cord. That includes a hefty amount of ground loss (yes, even good line loses a lot of heat), so likely closer to 2 cord actually going into the building. As I said above, I have never paid more than $1.09 for LP. Ever. If you're paying market price of $1.55 that's entirely your fault for not pre-buying when the price is low. For grins though, let's try again with the 2 cord number AKA 25,000,000 BTU and 80% efficiency from the Modine which makes 73,200 BTU per gallon. That comes out to 342 gallons of LP. So Even if you were for some reason paying $1.55, that's $529 for the winter. Seeing as you already have the Modine in place and I can only assume it's still connected to the tank and needs nothing besides more propane to run, at $529 a year it's still going to take 12-15 years to pay off a new OWB IF the wood was completely free, your labor is worth nothing, and pump took zero electricity to run- which we all know is not the case. Hell, just the pump alone takes $30-120 a year to run depending on motor.
All I'm saying is weigh the options. The majority of us burn wood to save money; maybe have a little fun and get some exercise. Don't let the "freeness" of operation let you lose sight of the huge initial investment and overall cost of each over the lifespan of the stove
All I'm saying is weigh the options. The majority of us burn wood to save money; maybe have a little fun and get some exercise. Don't let the "freeness" of operation let you lose sight of the huge initial investment and overall cost of each over the lifespan of the stove
55
Crown Royal / Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
« on: June 26, 2019, 06:57:32 PM »
His/her dealer will have that info.
56
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: June 26, 2019, 06:52:53 PM »Propane is over $3/gallon here.
That's there, not here where the OP and myself reside. It hit $5 for a few months back 5-6 years ago but I have never once paid more than $1.09 and that was last year
57
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: June 26, 2019, 07:03:16 AM »
Be a smartass all you want, I don't care. Aside from the crisis 5-6 years ago, when is the last time LP got above $1.30? Before I started burning wood, I was heating 2800 sq ft on about 1000 gallons a winter including DHW. My 1600 sq ft shop with 14ft sidewalls and two 12x12 doors will heat for $120/mo on electric which is equivalent in cost to $3 propane (so would cost about $450 a year at $.89 on LP if I had an LP boiler). A BTU is a BTU, no matter where it comes from and as my calculations above clearly show, 3 cord of wood at 50% efficiency is the same BTU output as 433 gallons of LP at 95% efficiency. If you disagree with scientific facts, that's just fine but you're wrong. Again, the numbers don't lie.
58
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: June 25, 2019, 06:17:19 PM »$300 to heat a 30x48 building? You realize I'm in Minnesota, right?
You'd be lucky to keep a fishhouse warm up here for $300
Yes I do, and so am I. If you think you can do it on 2-3 cord with a conventional stove at 50% efficiency, that's 25,000,000-37,500,000 BTU with good dry oak. Converted to LP at 95% efficiency with 86,500 BTU per gallon, we have 289-433 gallons of propane. I just got a "summer fill" quote yesterday for $.89 a gallon. You're welcome to do the math yourself, but mine says $257-385. The numbers don't lie
59
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: June 24, 2019, 05:24:21 PM »
Assuming decent insulation in a 30x48, we're talking $3-400 a year worth of LP keeping it at 55 ambient in MN. I small stove like a C150 would still be oversized most of the year and have a lot of idle time, but let's say $6-7k once you buy the stove, underground, pump, HX, electrical, etc. Then add in the cost of cutting wood (we all know it's far from free), at $400/yr it'd take 20 years to break even and at that point you need a new stove again. Sure wouldn't catch me starting a chainsaw if that were my scenario
60
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?
« on: June 23, 2019, 02:42:08 PM »
Man, you could buy propane for 2 lifetimes before that pay off...