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[chadley]

You know, I didnt like anyone on hearth.com.  They seemed arrogant like some of you mentioned.  They all blamed "us" OWB guys for all the EPA regs coming down blah blah blah.  BUT one guy did ask an interesting question:  How many people switched from a gasser to a non gasser?  I don't know of anyone.  His argument was that plenty of people have gone from non gassers to gassers but how many have actually switched from gassers to non gassers.  His point being that gassers were better than non gassers.

So, how many of you have divorced the gasser world for the non gasser world?

[MattyNH]

Yeah when this web sight forum was shut down..Went on that hearth.com..Wasn't a fan..

[willieG]

chadley, i doubt  you will find any. many of us here use the old style because when we bought them there was no gasser or we built one that was simple to build (non gasser) ther are some good gassers out there i think and if i were to buy a new stove it would likley be a gasser. they cost more but i think now i could afford the difference. if you are asking because you are trying to decide what to buy? buy a gasser and that is coming from someone who does not own one. if you get a good one (i don't know what is best) you will burn less wood..you will pollute less...your learning curve will likley be longer than with a non gasser but i think generally the learning curve is not so much spending all that time you will standing beside it, opening the door and peeking in but the learning curve with most of us was to "leave the dam thing alone and let it do its job"

i know lots of sites bash us old timers for the stoves we have...we have them because they were the best at the time we bought them. they were (reletively) cheap and we were scrambling to beat the oil man. remember (at least in my part of the world) the QWB buyer was generally a farmer or rural route dweller..older homes..less insulation..less money to spend on making their home more energy efficient. the first OWB were saviours to us. i will repeat...if you can afford it...buy the gasser, if you cant afford it and buy a non gasser learn to run it as cleanly as possable
 and when you get over to one of them bashing sites, tell them for me, leave me and my old puffer alone..when it wears out i will buy a gasser but not a red one..i don't like red

[martyinmi]

  Atta boy Willie. Well put!

[TheBoiler]

They had a little exhibition near me and they had the Froling rep there.

I think they would be worth the cost of repainting if red really is a no no.

[vpd66]

Atta boy Willie. Well put!

I second that!

[ijon]

chadley, i doubt  you will find any. many of us here use the old style because when we bought them there was no gasser or we built one that was simple to build (non gasser) ther are some good gassers out there i think and if i were to buy a new stove it would likley be a gasser. they cost more but i think now i could afford the difference. if you are asking because you are trying to decide what to buy? buy a gasser and that is coming from someone who does not own one. if you get a good one (i don't know what is best) you will burn less wood..you will pollute less...your learning curve will likley be longer than with a non gasser but i think generally the learning curve is not so much spending all that time you will standing beside it, opening the door and peeking in but the learning curve with most of us was to "leave the dam thing alone and let it do its job"You are right on about that.

i know lots of sites bash us old timers for the stoves we have...we have them because they were the best at the time we bought them. they were (reletively) cheap and we were scrambling to beat the oil man. remember (at least in my part of the world) the QWB buyer was generally a farmer or rural route dweller..older homes..less insulation..less money to spend on making their home more energy efficient. the first OWB were saviours to us. i will repeat...if you can afford it...buy the gasser, if you cant afford it and buy a non gasser learn to run it as cleanly as possable
 and when you get over to one of them bashing sites, tell them for me, leave me and my old puffer alone..when it wears out i will buy a gasser but not a red one..i don't like red

[Bill G]

My Thoughts:

      If you can have a non-gasser, get it.
           LESS MAINTENANCE!
           Not real picky about what passes through the door.
           Design has been around for years and you can bet they will run flawlessly for a decent amount of time, 10 yrs plus.
           May burn more would per season, but not a big deal to me.
           If you burn seasoned, good wood, smoke is not a big issue.  They all smoke some on the first burn cycle with a new loading.

       The gassers:
           You will need a 1/2 hr or so every 7-10-14 days to clean heat exchangers, burn chambers.
                   This requires timing on your part, by watching the weather for a good day to do it, within the given time frame.
                          (Not really a problem, this year.)
           A must, seasoned wood.  Otherwise, poor performance and a filthy mess within days.
           Still rather new technology for OWB's.  More "wear" items in the form of nozzles, fire brick, refractory cement.
           20-30% less wood.
           They burn remarkably clean, when they are clean.  They'll let you know when it's time...and it's less than 28 days, before they start
                 the "B*****n"!!  1/2 that if there being used hard. 
           They cost 20-30% more up front.
           

        Seriously, if you can have a conventional OWB, that is still the way to go.  Set it and forget it!  If you season your wood for a year or so in advance, c/s/s and covered top for a few months before use, the coventional OWB won't offend anyone.  Most free-standing stoves spew more smoke out the chimney than an OWB.

        I am not at all disappointed in the performance/heat out-put of my gasser.  It heats as advertised, maybe better.  I am not lazy, but it can be/has been difficult to get that 30mins  of free time to service the OWB.  Not fun in the dark, etc.  When it starts smokin, you know it's time.  Heat exchange, ie, long burn time to come back up to temp, smokin, all clues as to it is once again time for scrubbin'.  Again, don't count the initial bit of smokin' that occurs after a new loading.  Even with the best of seasoned wood, mine will smoke  for a time until she gets gassifying properly.  Sometimes 2-3 minutes, others, as long as 20 or so.  depending on how long it has been idle, and of course,CLEANLYNESS!!!

        I could have gotten away with a conventional type.  But, I got what I got, because I do have neighbors fairly close and close to town.  Didn't want to ever make waves, but don't want a heat bill!! 

       Also, they don't like to have a long idle time.  Which, this winter has been so mild, it hasn't worked hard at all.  They stay cleaner, longer if working hard.  If you learn to set the temp differential, according to the weather, they will keep a fire indefinately.  Mild weather, with a 10 deg diff, will most always result in an out-fire situation.  At least for me.  And, smoldering fires produce creosote.  I don't care how dry, how wet, what species etc.  My experience has shown this. 

       I have Portage and Main.  Built about the best I saw out there.  CB would be my second choice.  Just my opinion on that.  There are many I have not seen that I may like.  But, I did see some real junk! 

       Soooo....go coventional if you can.  But the gasser's do work, and so will you!

[Dirtslinger]

My Thoughts:

      If you can have a non-gasser, get it.
           LESS MAINTENANCE!
           Not real picky about what passes through the door.
           Design has been around for years and you can bet they will run flawlessly for a decent amount of time, 10 yrs plus.
           May burn more would per season, but not a big deal to me.
           If you burn seasoned, good wood, smoke is not a big issue.  They all smoke some on the first burn cycle with a new loading.

       The gassers:
           You will need a 1/2 hr or so every 7-10-14 days to clean heat exchangers, burn chambers.
                   This requires timing on your part, by watching the weather for a good day to do it, within the given time frame.
                          (Not really a problem, this year.)
           A must, seasoned wood.  Otherwise, poor performance and a filthy mess within days.
           Still rather new technology for OWB's.  More "wear" items in the form of nozzles, fire brick, refractory cement.
           20-30% less wood.
           They burn remarkably clean, when they are clean.  They'll let you know when it's time...and it's less than 28 days, before they start
                 the "B*****n"!!  1/2 that if there being used hard. 
           They cost 20-30% more up front.
           

        Seriously, if you can have a conventional OWB, that is still the way to go.  Set it and forget it!  If you season your wood for a year or so in advance, c/s/s and covered top for a few months before use, the coventional OWB won't offend anyone.  Most free-standing stoves spew more smoke out the chimney than an OWB.

        I am not at all disappointed in the performance/heat out-put of my gasser.  It heats as advertised, maybe better.  I am not lazy, but it can be/has been difficult to get that 30mins  of free time to service the OWB.  Not fun in the dark, etc.  When it starts smokin, you know it's time.  Heat exchange, ie, long burn time to come back up to temp, smokin, all clues as to it is once again time for scrubbin'.  Again, don't count the initial bit of smokin' that occurs after a new loading.  Even with the best of seasoned wood, mine will smoke  for a time until she gets gassifying properly.  Sometimes 2-3 minutes, others, as long as 20 or so.  depending on how long it has been idle, and of course,CLEANLYNESS!!!

        I could have gotten away with a conventional type.  But, I got what I got, because I do have neighbors fairly close and close to town.  Didn't want to ever make waves, but don't want a heat bill!! 

       Also, they don't like to have a long idle time.  Which, this winter has been so mild, it hasn't worked hard at all.  They stay cleaner, longer if working hard.  If you learn to set the temp differential, according to the weather, they will keep a fire indefinately.  Mild weather, with a 10 deg diff, will most always result in an out-fire situation.  At least for me.  And, smoldering fires produce creosote.  I don't care how dry, how wet, what species etc.  My experience has shown this. 

       I have Portage and Main.  Built about the best I saw out there.  CB would be my second choice.  Just my opinion on that.  There are many I have not seen that I may like.  But, I did see some real junk! 

       Soooo....go coventional if you can.  But the gasser's do work, and so will you!

 

[TheBoiler]

When I was looking I saw a Garn that had been recently installed. They had not built their wood pile, they were literally felling and burning.

Apart from using more wood than they expected, there seemed no other issues.

[dirtryder]

Yes,
Hearth dot com hates us and they let us know it. It's funny, just this morning when I was coming in to work there were several homes with smoke coming out of their "chimney's" from indoor wood stoves, but earlier when I went out to my boiler it was up to temp, damper open, with no visible smoke..........OK it was time for a fill cause it was running on red hot coals but we won't tell them that Point is, all wood burning appliances smoke at one time or another during a burn cycle.
Anyway....
I switched from a Gasser (Wood Doctor HE5000) to a Non-Gasser (Central Boiler 6048). First off, the wood doctor performed really well for it's designed purpose BUT was too small for my application. This was a combination of what I was told would work for me AND me not insisting on a larger unit. Now I can only speak about MY gasser and non gasser, other units may be different.
BTW, I only operated the Wood Doctor for 2 winters but it worked flawlessly and other than not being large enough, I was very happy with my investment.

SMOKE:
Yes, overall the gasser smoked less but still after fresh fills, it was not "smokeless" The trick to the non-gasser is learning how much wood to put in it to get you to the next fill. I find that if I plan on a morning fill and an early evening fill, it uses less wood and smokes less. And by "fill" I do not mean "full". If you choose to top off the non-gasser and not come back in 24 hours or so, you can do it but the results will be much more smoke and more wood usage. The thing about the non-gasser is, if you put the wood in it, it "will" burn it. Learning to put in "what you need" is the trick.

WOOD PREP:
By FAR my wood prep time and energy has dropped using the non-gasser. The splits that I put in my CB would have had to have been split at least in half again or maybe even 3 times to burn correctly in "my" gasser. In reality, I only split the wood now so I my wife and I can pick it up. If I can get the piece of wood through the door on the CB it will burn it. There is no "stacking" the wood properly in the boiler so it doesn't bridge. Also, the gasser worked MUCH better with logs or splits that were the length of the firebox. Shorts always gave me a problem. If I was home all day, then I could burn them because I could keep and eye on it. The CB could care less the size, length, roundness, or how it's thrown in.

CLEANING:
In the gasser, EVERYTIME I put a load in it, I "had"  to straighten out the coals and make sure the holes in the bottom firebrick were open or it would not operate correctly. I do rake the CB when I load it but do not "have" to if I don't want. I could easily throw wood in it and walk away. On the gasser, it burned "down" and out the back and the flue stair stepped up the back. I had to clean the ashes at least once or twice a week to keep it running correctly. Cleaning the rear flue portion was "annoying" The CB I clean monthly during the winter and less during the summer. This takes just shoveling out some of the ashes and putting in a metal trash can.

WATER CAPACITY:
My gasser was 145 gallons my CB is just shy of 400 gallons. I feel this is a tremendous advantage having more water. Unless I'm heating the pool, my CB has never had an issue staying up to temp.....ever.

WOOD USAGE:
I would say that I used less wood with the gasser but no where near as much as folks on Hearth say you will. I used about 8+ cord my first winter (did not burn during summer). The second winter was about the same. I have had my CB burning since last Feb (all summer for DHW and hot tub and in ground pool for 1 month) and so far I have burned about 12 cord. NOW, we have had a very mild winter, but I fill with the same wheel barrow so I can compare pretty good. If I had to guess, I would say 25% less wood. And trust me, an in ground pool can use some wood!

All in all, I was happy with the gasser and I love my non-gasser. I do not have any "whiney" neighbors nor do I live in a neighborhood. We all burn wood and/or coal so smoke is of no concern at all. I can see where if I lived in a more sensative area, I would have probably gone a different route. When I decided I had to replace my too small of boiler, I "boiled" it down to a Portage and Main gasser or the CB6048. For me and my application, the non-gasser was a perfect fit for me.

Heating:
2000 sqft rancher on craw space and 1000 sqft attached in-law suite with 2 seperate hot air heating systems (average temp 76) , all DHW (2 showers, 2 dishwashers, 2 clothes washers) 500 gallon hot tub, 24' X 32' "lightly" insulated pole barn garage with in floor radiant heat, in ground 40k gallon pool.
Before the wood boiler I had used 1k a MONTH for propane during Dec, Jan, Feb, for the house and $200 a month to keep the pole barn above freezing only. Average yearly propane cost.........6k 

[Bill G]

What I have learned from that other "site" you guys make mention of is this:

      "It took some time to train Charles to load the the new gassification unit every morning.  I first had to instruct him to start the Bentley first, then load the unit.  Now if he would just learn to discard the plastic that the wood comes wrapped in!  And to accomplish all this without burning my eggs Benedict"!!!

Sound about right???

[dirtryder]

What I have learned from that other "site" you guys make mention of is this:

      "It took some time to train Charles to load the the new gassification unit every morning.  I first had to instruct him to start the Bentley first, then load the unit.  Now if he would just learn to discard the plastic that the wood comes wrapped in!  And to accomplish all this without burning my eggs Benedict"!!!

Sound about right???

Perfect

[rhugg]

Groupthink either because the site promotes it or we seek a site that fits with what we already think.  That is why I watch NBC...NOT.

I have a Quadrafire insert and you can see it when it 'gassifies'.  Quite pretty and impressive when you consider that much of the burn above the wood would not occur in a normal insert.  But when I don't load it correctly or damp it back it smokes just like any other fire that isn't burning correctly.  And it really doesn't make much heat when you try to get it to burn 8 hrs and it surely doesn't distribute the heat and make the house comfortable.  When I've burnt bad quality wood in it I alway run it close to wide open and i've never had a cleaning issue.  But it doesn't do a burn, idle, burn, idle cycle which is where smoke and buildup is introduced.

That being said, I am quite happy with my classic OWB in year 2. 

[Bill G]

Rhugg,

      I have a 4200 step top that I burned for 10+ years.  I always liked it, for what it is.  It is in my basement and did well for the basement and first floor.  Not big enough to do anything for 2nd floor.  Use to help big time with cutting the LP usage, but with prices climbing higher by leaps and bounds, I went OWB.  I am burning less wood and getting far better heat.  Even heat throughout and DHW also.  Should have went this route years before but funding was difficult.  I had experience with a OWB at our local fire company.  So I knew that was the way to go.

      The Qaudrafire free standing stove is a very good unit, among the best out there til this day.  I will most likely put it in my shop, for next year.

      Maintenance on the Quadrafire is simple and not frequent.  But, it don't do what any OWB will do.  I suppose if you only had 1000 sq ft or less, then it would be better than OWB, but no DHW. 

      Any form of supplemental heat is better than nothing, as far as we are concerned.