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1
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 24, 2014, 06:23:14 PM »
I had my energy audit today and it was very eye opening. Basically they try to create a negative indoor pressure of 50 pascals. For my home they were only able to achieve 30 pascals before maxing the fan out. We walked around the inside with the thermal imager and noticed many areas that are pouring in cold air as well as a few wall cavities and one ceiling without insulation. I still don't think my OWB is behaving ideally, however, the house is much less insulated than I initially believed. After a trip to the hardware store I will spend tomorrow sealing some of the larger issues we discovered.
2
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 21, 2014, 07:27:38 AM »
I was on the Shaver website and they illustrate connecting their system up to a pressurized indoor boiler the same way that mine is connected. Of course Central Boiler illustrates using a wrap around pump. Should I disregard Shaver's suggestions?...I think I already know the answer to that.
3
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 19, 2014, 10:01:48 AM »
Okay...So the way I understand it my lack of a "wrap around pump" is what is causing my internal temps to be so low. If I install a wrap around pump and make sure the outdoor temp is 10 degrees or so more than the internal hi temp limit this should take care of the issue. The next issue is my underperforming underground lines.
4
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 18, 2014, 06:55:13 PM »
Okay...I was just looking at several drawings online and what I saw was a "wrap around pump" which would continuously circulate the indoor boiler water but not put it through the "loop". I am guessing this is why people encourage me to run the pump 24/7? My configuration lacks this pump. I did not see any drawings that recommend my particular configuration. Is this my problem???
5
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 18, 2014, 06:47:14 PM »
honda,
I am having a hard time understanding how the OWB pump would heat the indoor boiler without the indoor circulator running? My indoor system is just one loop with one circulating pump that only runs when there is a call for heat. I am starting to wonder if my system is designed oddly? I do not know who designed my system. We bought our current house last summer as a foreclosure. To be honest I didn't really even expect the boiler to hold water at first.
I am having a hard time understanding how the OWB pump would heat the indoor boiler without the indoor circulator running? My indoor system is just one loop with one circulating pump that only runs when there is a call for heat. I am starting to wonder if my system is designed oddly? I do not know who designed my system. We bought our current house last summer as a foreclosure. To be honest I didn't really even expect the boiler to hold water at first.
6
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 18, 2014, 05:26:23 PM »
Thanks everyone for your help...I was also very concerned about the 3/4" pipe. Earlier in the season it was 3/4" the whole way to the hx. To increase the gpm (if ever so slightly) I replaced the basement half of the run with 1". This increased the indoor boiler temp by 5-10 F. Not knowing the remaining lifespan of this boiler it is probably from 2005, I would hate to spend the time and money to replace the underground line. I can easily change the pump over to 24/7 run time though. We are expecting some warm temps in the next few days so it will be hard to do an apples to apples comparison until it gets cold again. I do not know the return temp off the hx. I can hit it with the IR gun but that is hardly accurate. Aside from delaying the heat reaching the hx...what other downsides are there to running the pump constantly?
7
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:59:26 AM »
My dry well is probably 8"-12" deep and is situated a foot from the back and probably a foot in or so. My OWB is configured as follows (in order):
1. Shaver 165
2. Taco 0011
3. 40' 3/4" polybutyl (buried and homemade)
(I have no evidence of water infiltration or large heat loss...snows lays just fine over pipe)
4. 40' 1" PEX (basement)
5. 70 plate heat exchanger
6. Oil fired boiler with 13 gallon water jacket (120,000 BTU)
7. 2" pipe circling basement
8. one or more cast iron radiators in each room (9 total)
House is roughly 2200 sq. feet located in south central PA. 9 foot ceilings with brick exterior. Blown in attic insulation. R13 in walls (maybe). New replacement windows (lots of big windows).
Boiler at temp is 175...temp going into exchanger will be 5 less (this may be due to calibration errors or heat loss in pipe). Oil boiler only gets up to 135 and that is if it is running constantly. I do not know what the OWB return temp is. Outdoor pump is configured to only run when there is a call for heat. I have tried burning everything in this machine (oak mostly...sometimes locust....currently pine). I find the pine gets it up to temp faster than the others however I need to feed it every 4-5 hours and it does not make a good coal bed. The oak seemed to last the longest but still barely made it through the night. I have a suspicion that I may have scale buildup in the heat exchanger and/or water jacket. This will be investigated.
1. Shaver 165
2. Taco 0011
3. 40' 3/4" polybutyl (buried and homemade)
(I have no evidence of water infiltration or large heat loss...snows lays just fine over pipe)
4. 40' 1" PEX (basement)
5. 70 plate heat exchanger
6. Oil fired boiler with 13 gallon water jacket (120,000 BTU)
7. 2" pipe circling basement
8. one or more cast iron radiators in each room (9 total)
House is roughly 2200 sq. feet located in south central PA. 9 foot ceilings with brick exterior. Blown in attic insulation. R13 in walls (maybe). New replacement windows (lots of big windows).
Boiler at temp is 175...temp going into exchanger will be 5 less (this may be due to calibration errors or heat loss in pipe). Oil boiler only gets up to 135 and that is if it is running constantly. I do not know what the OWB return temp is. Outdoor pump is configured to only run when there is a call for heat. I have tried burning everything in this machine (oak mostly...sometimes locust....currently pine). I find the pine gets it up to temp faster than the others however I need to feed it every 4-5 hours and it does not make a good coal bed. The oak seemed to last the longest but still barely made it through the night. I have a suspicion that I may have scale buildup in the heat exchanger and/or water jacket. This will be investigated.
8
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 16, 2014, 06:49:11 AM »
I have a PEX thermometer inline with the supply coming off the OWB. Initially when there is a call for heat the dial immediately goes to 170-180. Over the course of a minute or so the temp drops at least 10 degrees below what my Ranco says. I think this is a result of a "pocket" of cooler water being trapped behind the firebox. I will try to conduct your experiment today and see what I come up with. I am scheduling an energy audit tomorrow since it turns out that our local electric company will reimburse me if I implement certain energy saving measures. It should be interesting and hopefully help me prioritize improvements to made throughout the house.
9
Shaver Furnace / Re: This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 16, 2014, 05:43:45 AM »
I am sure insulation in my house is some of the issue. Our home is a late 1800's brick farmhouse with 9' ceilings. It does have many upgrades however, including new double pane windows. My indoor boiler temp will only go as high as 135 with the outdoor pushing in 160-170. Of course with the factory design the heat does not get circulated in the water jacket since the supply and return are both stuck behind the firebox. I am really running out of ideas for what I could be doing wrong here and I am very hesitant to sink any more money into this hole. I believe the overall problem is that the design of this particular OWB is incredibly inefficient. The thick firebox impedes heat transfer and has so little area to transfer heat that most of the BTU's go right up the chimney. One thing I will be checking today is for scale buildup on the inside of the tank and firebox.
10
Shaver Furnace / This boiler is absolute garbage!!!
« on: February 15, 2014, 09:11:36 PM »
Hi all,
I posted on this forum early in the season looking for ways to improve the efficiency of my boiler. I found some methods including the damper assembly, additional insulation, Ranco thermostat and a few others. After running it for the last several months there is one universal truth that I had hoped to prove wrong..."You can't polish a turd!" Simply put...There are too many shortcomings on this OWB to overcome. To heat my 2500 square foot home in southern PA I am burning easily 1 cord every 10 days or so. My house is barely able to get past 68 F. I need to feed this monster every 8 hours! The door is so dang small that you can hardly put more than one good chunk in the box before it is rendered inaccessible. The fact that I needed to sink $500 into this machine just to get it running at an unacceptable level is ridiculous. Tonight I am heating with oil again. I simply can not tolerate the idea of wasting more good firewood just to have the vast majority of the heat go right up the chimney! Funny how they claim the 1/2" firebox as a selling point isn't it?? Monday morning I am buying a coal stove. I will be selling the Shaver for $1000 which should buy me enough rice coal to last me through next winter. Sorry for the tone of my post...I am simply tired of being cold and pissed off.
I posted on this forum early in the season looking for ways to improve the efficiency of my boiler. I found some methods including the damper assembly, additional insulation, Ranco thermostat and a few others. After running it for the last several months there is one universal truth that I had hoped to prove wrong..."You can't polish a turd!" Simply put...There are too many shortcomings on this OWB to overcome. To heat my 2500 square foot home in southern PA I am burning easily 1 cord every 10 days or so. My house is barely able to get past 68 F. I need to feed this monster every 8 hours! The door is so dang small that you can hardly put more than one good chunk in the box before it is rendered inaccessible. The fact that I needed to sink $500 into this machine just to get it running at an unacceptable level is ridiculous. Tonight I am heating with oil again. I simply can not tolerate the idea of wasting more good firewood just to have the vast majority of the heat go right up the chimney! Funny how they claim the 1/2" firebox as a selling point isn't it?? Monday morning I am buying a coal stove. I will be selling the Shaver for $1000 which should buy me enough rice coal to last me through next winter. Sorry for the tone of my post...I am simply tired of being cold and pissed off.
11
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Unreal
« on: November 25, 2013, 05:31:58 PM »
I don't believe the article itself is bogus. There was one similar in the Washington Post recently. I just don't think the one linked did a good job of relaying the "complete" story. I have many unanswered questions regarding the suits. Will these new standards be retroactive? How will this affect the pricing of compliant models? How many current models are compliant? How do these standards compare to indoor wood stove emissions? The linked article came across as a very "us vs. them" "big brother is going to take your OWB's away". I just don't trust the news that comes from a source that seems to have a political objective. This very much applies to both sides of the spectrum. The Onion is a satirical "newspaper" that is good for laughs and also fooling the Chinese state owned media from time to time.
12
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Unreal
« on: November 25, 2013, 02:35:54 PM »
Wow...not sure whether I read a real news article, op-ed or onion article. I am a bit reluctant to give any credence to a news source that is so overtly biased.
13
Shaver Furnace / Re: fan upgrade and damper on shaver 165
« on: November 02, 2013, 06:23:15 AM »
To be honest I don't think I needed the upgraded blower. With it taped 2/3 of the opening it is not pushing out more than 50 cfm anyhow. I think the flapper would have worked on the stock blower without much of a problem. The flapper however, was a great purchase. It is night and day when looking at the smoke output when there is no call for heat. Most of the time all I see is occasional wafts of steam coming out and nothing else. Tomorrow the cold returns and I should get a better idea of the efficiency improvement.
14
Shaver Furnace / Re: fan upgrade and damper on shaver 165
« on: October 31, 2013, 06:03:33 PM »
With the fan opening duct taped 2/3 it seems to be working well. I did notice a small flame coming out last night right after I loaded it. Overall the damper mod seems to be improving the efficiency. I don't have a chimney extension, just the standard 3' or so. Wow...torching out of a 10 ' chimney! I still see some embers coming out and am thinking of welding up some sort of spark arrestor.
15
Shaver Furnace / fan upgrade and damper on shaver 165
« on: October 28, 2013, 06:22:35 PM »
I just got done installing a 75 cfm blower on my 165 replacing the stock 50 cfm. I did this for two reasons. The stock 50 cfm bearings were sounding bad and I installed altheatingsupply.com damper kit which supposedly only works with the 75 cfm blower. After installation I loaded up the firebox and about 10 minutes later I had a blowtorch coming out the chimney. I watched the chimney looking like a roman candle for about 10 minutes until I blocked off about 2/3 of the fan opening with duct tape. It wasn't creosote burning just wood. I measured the stack temp at 450. Has anyone else experienced this with the fan upgrade? If so what did you do? Leaving it as it was is not going to happen. Too many embers were going up in the air too close to my wood framed summer kitchen.