Print

[gsilus]

I have a E2300 gasser just finishing it's 3rd heating season, and really like the unit.  However, I am noticing the air holes, particularly on the right side, looking in, are filling with hardened dust/creosote.  I am curious if other E2300 owners are observing this undesired activity? and if so, have you taken any corrective measures to reverse it?  The only think I've done is take a 1/2" drill bit and worked it around best I could, taking care to NOT drill a hole through the metal.

[Roger2561]

I have a E2300 gasser just finishing it's 3rd heating season, and really like the unit.  However, I am noticing the air holes, particularly on the right side, looking in, are filling with hardened dust/creosote.  I am curious if other E2300 owners are observing this undesired activity? and if so, have you taken any corrective measures to reverse it?  The only think I've done is take a 1/2" drill bit and worked it around best I could, taking care to NOT drill a hole through the metal.

I don't have an e2300, I have the e1400 gasser and like you, I like it alot, but have been experiencing the same problem the entire burning season.  My firewood is of lesser quality so creosote has been an issue all season.  I spent 3 hours one day clearing the holes of creosote and ash.  I'm hoping my supply of firewood for next year is better.  It's cut to 24 inch length, stacked off the ground on pressure treated 4x4's.  This spring I'm stacking it in my barn where 2 walls are covered with louvers to allow air to flow in but keep the elements away.

I've been racking my head for a better design than the one CB came up with.  I think I have something but I need to draw it on paper to see if it will indeed work.  When I have it drawn out, I'll post for everyone's opinion.  Roger

[wishiwasfishingguy]

As with all the gassers, the firebox just isn't as hot as in the final combustion chambers.  Therefore it is important to keep air flow channel on the sides open and the temperature of the water jacket above the 150 degree mark so they don't sweat.  Important to stay on top of this with some routine and proper maintenance.  Here is what I have learned from experience and from other postings...

Creosote enteres the air channels because the ashes are run too high and the poker rod is not being used daily to run through the ash bed.  When the ashes are routinely run through with the rod, it keeps the bed of ashes loose and will flow into the reaction chamber.  The coals and fire will keep the surface of the air channels hot enough to cause creosote to flow lower into the coals and ash that are below the side air channels.  Let the load of wood in the firebox burn down from time to time so the ashes don't build up is another suggestion.  Be sure to scrape the sidewalls and over air channel holes almost daily during the winter and especially during these warmer temperatures. 

For cleaning, you could try burn down to empty, clean the ash and coals from the firebox and build a fire with very dry kindling and melt that creosote from the channels.  Try a 1/8 wire which has enough strenth yet some flexibility to push through the air holes and loosen it up.  Then use a shop vac on the air holes.

Keeping up on the maintenance and keeping the ashes low will make the furnace operate more efficienty.

[muffin]

Just curiose, do you all tend to let your fire die out completely for cleaning frequenly, with these phase II units?  I have the classic, and it has been running non-stop since last thanksgiving when I got it installed.  For me to let it burn out would be a big deal.  It has gotten low a couple times because I didn't add wood when I should have and that alone was enough to cause a lot of havoc in my house.  I would think a burn out/restart cycle would literally take 4-6 hours with mine of non-operating time; although I have never done it so maybe that is over conservative.

[boilerman]

I start just one fire at the beginning of the heating season with my Phase 2 Eclassic. I clean the firebox much like I did my Classic, by just burning down to a good coal bed, rake coals over to one side, shovel out powdery ash, then role coals over to opposite side, shovel out powdery ash, re-spread coals around and reload. I only do this 2 times during the heating season. I shovel the powdery ash out of the lower reaction chamber once every 3-4 weeks. My E2400 self cleans its exchangers, so no cleaning is necessary there. Burning 30-40% less wood too!

[dwneast77]

With my E2300, I used to find it necessary to let it burn down and completely clean it out as I experienced an exceptional amount of tar/creosote build-up.  I would literally have to shovel it out and then spend at least 1/2 to an hour chiseling and scraping out the build-up.  It was nasty with tons of harsh smoke.  My unit is under cover with an exhaust fan to help clear the smoke.  Twice I had the fire department called on me.  Pretty embarrassing.  I wore a full-faced respirator when cleaning.  The root of my problem was my primary air channels.  I've posted on several threads both here on Central Boiler and also shared and compared some notes on a few Portage and Main threads with some pictures.  I'm not sure what happened first, but my primary air channels were quite loaded up, but not just loose ash.  A lot of creosote was building up.  I later realized that the air channels were separating from the sidewalls allowing the creosote to ooze right down in there.  I had some patch work done last year in January.  Burned great for about 2 weeks.  Then slowed down again.  Long story short, I made an extensive yet fairly simple change to the way the primary air is introduced.  The unit is running exceptionally better with much less creosote.  Now if I let it burn down to mostly coals it is easy to just run the rod through to loosen things up and it burns, overall, great!!  Now I can also do what boilerman suggested, shoving the coals to one side at a time while cleaning the other.

I'm also running the Wood Doctor He10000 this year.  A much simpler design in many ways and yet still quite effective.  Much less tempermental overall.  Kind of too bad the company is belly-up.  Now I'm just as happy I got my unit used with no warranty to worry about, the price was right.

[gsilus]

Thx for everyone's input thus far on this thread which I started a few days ago, but I did not have time to review or reply until tonight.  I have some comments and ideas I will share on this topic later.  I did like another post I observed regarding a 2" vertical retrofit someone added, there were some great pics on this that was worth a 1000 words.

[dwneast77]

That was me!!  I'm still happy with my decision to do this.  I may try a slightly differant design for next season.  Then again, I may leave well enough alone.  I like that it gets the air supply up away from the ash build-up so it never gets plugged.  Also there is ample air flow to help push the ashes down into the combustion chamber, just keep them loosened up with the cleaning rod or a crowbar like you do anyway.  It has been a night and day difference for me given the problems I was having with the unit.  I might also add that I use this boiler along with a second unit, Wood Doctor, pretty much to the max.  I'm heating 4 greenhouses and my home.  I've only had the 2nd unit for this season.  I was trying to do this all with my e2300 the past 3 heating seasons.  It was a constant balancing act between my boiler blower thermostats and my oil fired thermostats so that I wouldn't overburden the OWB (but it was still paying for itself).  Now with both OWBs, I'm covered for heat supply, running somewhere upwards of a possible 450k BTUs.  If I let the fires get down too low or one stops gassifying, I can see my water temp drop 1 to 2 degrees a minutes.  It is an extremely heavy load.  Greenhouses only have a max R-Value of about 4 at best. 

My maintenance on the unit is now minimal in comparison.  The only thing I do more frequently is clean out the combustion chamber about every 3 days.  Easy.  Keep in mind, I'm burning about 2 cord a week or slightly more while supplying the greenhouses heat since late February.

If you or anyone else would like to see the pictures, just let me know.  Happy to share.

[Roger2561]

dwneast77 - Are you the one with the 2' nipple welded to the primary air flow, turns 90 degrees upward and extends to the top of the firebox and then a "T" at the top?  I've thinking of adding the same thing to my Eclassic 1400 but expand on it a bit.  Where you have the "T" at the top inside the firebox, on both sides of that, I would probably reduce the pipe to 1" to 1-1/2" continue around the corner near the top, (both sides of the fire box) extend the pipe to the end of the firebox near the door and have 1" nipples extend about half way down with a 45 degree coupler on the end to direct the air more toward the coals.  But, the pipe would only be threaded on by hand.  This would allow me to clean the pipes easily by simply removing them by hand without using any special tools.  If you can't follow what I mean I'll try to post a drawing of my concept, when I get it drawn up.  Roger         

[dwneast77]

Yes Roger, I am the one.  Though the 2" nipple is mearly slid into place, but welded into a cut-off 2 1/2" nipple screwed into the T.  That one pin on the back wall holds the whole thing in place.  Remove the pin and it slides right out for cleaning (which has not yet been necessary by the way).  Simple yet effective.  I too am going over other ideas in my head.  I picture what you described and it's not really all that different from thoughts I've had. 

One thought is to use 2" pipe up to the top to a 2" x 1 1/4" x 1 1/4"  T. (might consider going down to 1") That way there is no bushings with blunt edges inside the pipe.  The T would have a natural taper to help avoid build-up.  Then extend to each side to elbows facing to the front.  Immediately to a T with open end down and the other to continue to the front to an elbow down.  My uncertainty is how to support it.  Weld more hangers in? or extend the pipes right down to the floor to support itself adding in T's a few inches off the floor for air outlets near the coal bed.

Or keep it simpler.  2" nipple to T facing to each side.  Extend to each sidewall to elbows facing front and extending to the front, again maybe to elbows down to the floor to support the apparatus.  My thought with this plan would be to mimic the original design more and drill holes in the pipes where they run along the sidewalls, I'm thinking near the bottom of the pipe to blow the air more downward and allow for drainage if it's even possible for build-up to occur.  What's good about this idea is it allows me to create back pressure in the air channel like the original design.  I do feel that my current setup is allowing a bit more air than it should to the primary fire.   

In either case I too would want it to be easy to remove for cleaning and repairs.  There are things I like about both ideas, or all 3 counting yours.  I see pros and cons each way.  Keeping the apparatus at the top keeps it away from the extreme heat making it less likely to fail.

[Roger2561]

Yes Roger, I am the one.  Though the 2" nipple is mearly slid into place, but welded into a cut-off 2 1/2" nipple screwed into the T.  That one pin on the back wall holds the whole thing in place.  Remove the pin and it slides right out for cleaning (which has not yet been necessary by the way).  Simple yet effective.  I too am going over other ideas in my head.  I picture what you described and it's not really all that different from thoughts I've had. 

One thought is to use 2" pipe up to the top to a 2" x 1 1/4" x 1 1/4"  T. (might consider going down to 1") That way there is no bushings with blunt edges inside the pipe.  The T would have a natural taper to help avoid build-up.  Then extend to each side to elbows facing to the front.  Immediately to a T with open end down and the other to continue to the front to an elbow down.  My uncertainty is how to support it.  Weld more hangers in? or extend the pipes right down to the floor to support itself adding in T's a few inches off the floor for air outlets near the coal bed.

Or keep it simpler.  2" nipple to T facing to each side.  Extend to each sidewall to elbows facing front and extending to the front, again maybe to elbows down to the floor to support the apparatus.  My thought with this plan would be to mimic the original design more and drill holes in the pipes where they run along the sidewalls, I'm thinking near the bottom of the pipe to blow the air more downward and allow for drainage if it's even possible for build-up to occur.  What's good about this idea is it allows me to create back pressure in the air channel like the original design.  I do feel that my current setup is allowing a bit more air than it should to the primary fire.   

In either case I too would want it to be easy to remove for cleaning and repairs.  There are things I like about both ideas, or all 3 counting yours.  I see pros and cons each way.  Keeping the apparatus at the top keeps it away from the extreme heat making it less likely to fail.

Downest77 - I do not know about your OWB, but mine was ignition ready when I purchased it.  Essentially, the fitting for the gas burner in the rear of the OWB is in place but no burner.  If I simply remove the cover that's bolted in place that's plugging the hole, I can easily move my primary air solenoid mechanism to that hole and build the iron pipe set up inside the fire box without having to cut a hole through the fire box wall.  That way, if it doesn't work as I think it should, I can simply return it to the original place and suffer with the small air holes.  Roger

[dwneast77]

Roger,
Sounds like you have a good option there.  My unit is not ignition ready unfortunately.  My air channel was in pretty rough shape anyway so.  Even if I was to have had the welder fix the original design he most likely would have removed most of the old channel as the sides are falling apart and the back portion was so full of crap.  We only cut the back part of the air channel.   We left the sides in place.  I'm not sure how familiar you are with these first 2300s, but originally they were sent with firebrick built into a recessed wall.  I was told to remove the bricks as the creosote puched them out of place and they would drop to the floor anyway.  So my side air channels still leave me with a shelf that the brick used to sit on.  That "shelf" has pulled away from the wall a little (not sure it was ever welded) enabling the creosote to settle right in behind there.  Initially, there were no holes down low for the creosote to drain from.  I was told later to drill them.   Never, Never, Never buy the first model year!!!!!      

By the way, when the fire was low the other day I took the time to check out my air channels from the back panel.  Cleaned out the secondary tube for the first time ever.  Had a little junk in it but not bad.  Primary tube  was nice and clean.  Just a little loose stuff in the elbow but looking through toward the firebox, nice and clean.  I think piping in directly to a T for a drain was the best part of the design.

[gsilus]

dwneast77 & Roger, thx for keeping this discussion going back in early 2012.  I am again back to this discussion, as I never did retrofit my E2300(no ignition ready), but the air-flow is getting bad and causing the burn to not be efficient.  I like dwneast77's second retrofit design with the piping that fits along the bottom, that seems like a simple alternative to get the air flowing as it needs to.  the pictures are great and really help to conceptualize the retrofit you did so others can do the same.  Thx, Greg

[Roger2561]

dwneast77 & Roger, thx for keeping this discussion going back in early 2012.  I am again back to this discussion, as I never did retrofit my E2300(no ignition ready), but the air-flow is getting bad and causing the burn to not be efficient.  I like dwneast77's second retrofit design with the piping that fits along the bottom, that seems like a simple alternative to get the air flowing as it needs to.  the pictures are great and really help to conceptualize the retrofit you did so others can do the same.  Thx, Greg

gsilus, Any update regarding the retrofit on your E-Classic 2300; how's it working for you?  Any creosote problems as you experienced before?  Thanks,  Roger

[slimjim]

With my E2300, I used to find it necessary to let it burn down and completely clean it out as I experienced an exceptional amount of tar/creosote build-up.  I would literally have to shovel it out and then spend at least 1/2 to an hour chiseling and scraping out the build-up.  It was nasty with tons of harsh smoke.  My unit is under cover with an exhaust fan to help clear the smoke.  Twice I had the fire department called on me.  Pretty embarrassing.  I wore a full-faced respirator when cleaning.  The root of my problem was my primary air channels.  I've posted on several threads both here on Central Boiler and also shared and compared some notes on a few Portage and Main threads with some pictures.  I'm not sure what happened first, but my primary air channels were quite loaded up, but not just loose ash.  A lot of creosote was building up.  I later realized that the air channels were separating from the sidewalls allowing the creosote to ooze right down in there.  I had some patch work done last year in January.  Burned great for about 2 weeks.  Then slowed down again.  Long story short, I made an extensive yet fairly simple change to the way the primary air is introduced.  The unit is running exceptionally better with much less creosote.  Now if I let it burn down to mostly coals it is easy to just run the rod through to loosen things up and it burns, overall, great!!  Now I can also do what boilerman suggested, shoving the coals to one side at a time while cleaning the other.

I'm also running the Wood Doctor He10000 this year.  A much simpler design in many ways and yet still quite effective.  Much less tempermental overall.  Kind of too bad the company is belly-up.  Now I'm just as happy I got my unit used with no warranty to worry about, the price was right.

Hello Boilerman, did you read this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!