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1261
Plumbing / Re: Plate heat exchanger for DHW.
« on: February 20, 2017, 05:51:55 PM »
I have not checked exact flow rates for a long time. Once I checked an NRF-22 pumping 1" Pex circuit going through 1 3x8" 30 plate, several tees and 90's, 3 hot air coils and had 5 gpm. Made 140F domestic water all day long. That was an experiment at our shop, normally I'd do P/S piping on something like that to boost flow.
I did submit my flow to an online calculator and the restriction wasn't bad. The 40 degree Dt was a rough ball park estimate pulling several gpm on domestic side. Most house domestic load is less than 1 gpm. Then Dt drops accordingly.
BTU load is the familiar gpm X Dt X 500. I'm sure you're way ahead of me on calculating stuff like this.
From my experience long distance piping tends to be the problem a lot more often than 1 FPHX.
One difference in most of the installs we do is we are tying into heat pumps which tolerate big Dt's much much better than boilers.
I did submit my flow to an online calculator and the restriction wasn't bad. The 40 degree Dt was a rough ball park estimate pulling several gpm on domestic side. Most house domestic load is less than 1 gpm. Then Dt drops accordingly.
BTU load is the familiar gpm X Dt X 500. I'm sure you're way ahead of me on calculating stuff like this.
From my experience long distance piping tends to be the problem a lot more often than 1 FPHX.
One difference in most of the installs we do is we are tying into heat pumps which tolerate big Dt's much much better than boilers.
1262
Plumbing / Re: Plate heat exchanger for DHW.
« on: February 20, 2017, 01:01:35 AM »
We use 3X8" 30 plates. This will give about 140 - 145 F output of domestic water side, about 130-135 after going through the water heater. Will do those temps all day long if needed. Furnace line will run a 40-ish degree Dt while you're drawing hot water but that's very intermittent. We rarely use mixing valves. Keeps it simple. Bigger FPHX would run hotter domestic water output but there's really no point.
And a 3X8" 30 plate is big enough to not restrict flow on a typical 4-6 gpm house circuit.
We've used hundreds. I love them .
And a 3X8" 30 plate is big enough to not restrict flow on a typical 4-6 gpm house circuit.
We've used hundreds. I love them .
1263
HeatMaster / Re: 10,000 mfe
« on: February 18, 2017, 05:49:53 PM »
There's a leftover stigma from years ago that makes it an uphill journey to overcome. We need more guys with G series on there. Just about every one who has one loves it.
You have to see it to believe it. No comparison to a gasser from 10 years ago.
You have to see it to believe it. No comparison to a gasser from 10 years ago.
1264
HeatMaster / Re: 10,000 mfe
« on: February 18, 2017, 04:10:13 PM »
I have a lot of respect for the knowledge that is there on hearth. I've read on there a lot and used info from there in my work. It would be nice to have more outdoor gasser folks on there tho. Probably will eventually.
1265
HeatMaster / Re: 10,000 mfe
« on: February 18, 2017, 11:01:01 AM »
Lauren Yoder is my brother. Is that a facebook page? I've never gotten on facebook yet. Haven't seen the page, I guess.
Not sure when I will... I barely have time to check this and hearth but I think it's worth it for the knowledge shared back and forth.
Hearth isn't quite as friendly toward outdoor furnaces tho. It's hard for folks with OWBs to get help on there.
Not sure when I will... I barely have time to check this and hearth but I think it's worth it for the knowledge shared back and forth.
Hearth isn't quite as friendly toward outdoor furnaces tho. It's hard for folks with OWBs to get help on there.
1266
HeatMaster / Re: 10,000 mfe
« on: February 18, 2017, 09:35:45 AM »
What I mean is every model has its nuances and you have to adjust.
Imagine running a G with no coals over the nozzle- etc.
A grated furnace compared to a nongrated natural draft unit is very different.
Imagine running a G with no coals over the nozzle- etc.
A grated furnace compared to a nongrated natural draft unit is very different.
1267
HeatMaster / Re: 10,000 mfe
« on: February 18, 2017, 09:27:01 AM »
A 5 degree diff will definitely burn more wood, the unit short cycles too much to burn clean. A natural draft Classic will run a long time even with a 5 F diff. And the classic had no heat exchange area on the exhaust so it had to run choked down.
I've seen customers who switch from a flat bottom no grate unit to a grated unit sometimes have loading issues. They load the wood too tight on the grate or let ash build up and either way it chokes. Then it rolls thick smoke and the efficiency drops out the bottom.
I'd open up the draft to get a clean burn (that unit needs all the 1TDR3 fan can put out), 15 F diff, clean the grate off (if needed), load the wood so air can blow by the front and mix and burn off gasses. You'd be amazed how much difference some experimenting makes.
Just some thoughts.
I've seen customers who switch from a flat bottom no grate unit to a grated unit sometimes have loading issues. They load the wood too tight on the grate or let ash build up and either way it chokes. Then it rolls thick smoke and the efficiency drops out the bottom.
I'd open up the draft to get a clean burn (that unit needs all the 1TDR3 fan can put out), 15 F diff, clean the grate off (if needed), load the wood so air can blow by the front and mix and burn off gasses. You'd be amazed how much difference some experimenting makes.
Just some thoughts.
1268
Regulations / Re: Trumps EPA
« on: February 17, 2017, 07:54:36 PM »
So Pruitt got in... I'm actually surprised.
1269
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Online auction for furnace parts
« on: February 17, 2017, 03:39:25 PM »
Their website says Shelby, Michigan. I think.
1270
Hawken Energy, support only / Re: Now That Hawken's Gone......
« on: February 16, 2017, 12:39:10 PM »
Liquidation auction going on now so I doubt they'll be back?
https://bid.orbitbid.com/lots#YXVjdGlvbltpZF09MTA3MiZhdWN0aW9uW2xvY2F0aW9uXT1hbGwmYXVjdGlvbltzdGF0dXNdPXVwY29taW5nJmF1Y3Rpb25bdHlwZV09YWxsJmxpbWl0PTMwJmxvdFtjYXRlZ29yeV09YWxsJmxvdFtsb2NhdGlvbl09YWxsJnBhZ2U9MQ
https://bid.orbitbid.com/lots#YXVjdGlvbltpZF09MTA3MiZhdWN0aW9uW2xvY2F0aW9uXT1hbGwmYXVjdGlvbltzdGF0dXNdPXVwY29taW5nJmF1Y3Rpb25bdHlwZV09YWxsJmxpbWl0PTMwJmxvdFtjYXRlZ29yeV09YWxsJmxvdFtsb2NhdGlvbl09YWxsJnBhZ2U9MQ
1271
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Online auction for furnace parts
« on: February 16, 2017, 12:35:28 PM »
There's an online auction going on right now liquidating Hawken Energy inventory. Mixing valves, furnace tanks, blowers, Pex pipe..... Might be a chance to get some cheap parts if anyone is interested. Or a cheap tank to build your own unit.
Just letting folks know. I have no idea how high stuff will go.
https://bid.orbitbid.com/lots#YXVjdGlvbltpZF09MTA3MiZhdWN0aW9uW2xvY2F0aW9uXT1hbGwmYXVjdGlvbltzdGF0dXNdPXVwY29taW5nJmF1Y3Rpb25bdHlwZV09YWxsJmxpbWl0PTMwJmxvdFtjYXRlZ29yeV09YWxsJmxvdFtsb2NhdGlvbl09YWxsJnBhZ2U9MQ
Just letting folks know. I have no idea how high stuff will go.
https://bid.orbitbid.com/lots#YXVjdGlvbltpZF09MTA3MiZhdWN0aW9uW2xvY2F0aW9uXT1hbGwmYXVjdGlvbltzdGF0dXNdPXVwY29taW5nJmF1Y3Rpb25bdHlwZV09YWxsJmxpbWl0PTMwJmxvdFtjYXRlZ29yeV09YWxsJmxvdFtsb2NhdGlvbl09YWxsJnBhZ2U9MQ
1272
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: just wanting to say g'day
« on: February 16, 2017, 02:39:31 AM »
I was the same as you, Mark. Lurked for years soaking up info from slimjim, mlappin, RSI, and many others. Has taught me so much! Thanks guys!
1273
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: infloor heat questions
« on: February 15, 2017, 04:10:21 PM »You're absolutely right. I know a dealer who also does emergency repairs on snow plows in the winter. He loves his infloor radiant! Dry floors.
But there's nothing like a blower for a lot of quick heat.
1274
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: infloor heat questions
« on: February 15, 2017, 06:41:47 AM »
We run into the infloor problem down here in VA a lot. In our warmer climate people want to heat only when they are working in the shop and let it cool down otherwise to save wood. A blower can raise temperature in minutes. Infloor takes a day or two.
So in that situation (occasional heat) infloor burns more wood, but in a continuously heated building the opposite is true.. I always ask how they intend to use the building before we tackle an infloor job.
And I agree, most infloor is run with too high temp of water. It heats up quicker but over runs on warm days and sweats your feet. Should have an outdoor reset control to adjust water temps with the weather.
So in that situation (occasional heat) infloor burns more wood, but in a continuously heated building the opposite is true.. I always ask how they intend to use the building before we tackle an infloor job.
And I agree, most infloor is run with too high temp of water. It heats up quicker but over runs on warm days and sweats your feet. Should have an outdoor reset control to adjust water temps with the weather.
1275
Portage & Main / Re: Should I drain water out of my boiler at the end of burning season???
« on: February 15, 2017, 06:32:48 AM »Quote
Good to know. I understand that completely. Problem is, I have no way to get to the water to test it with probes.
Drain some out into a cup?
Quote
Really? I would think there’d be a procedure far as how far apart to hold the probes etc.
I'm not sure what kind of meter they have. Would have a preset distance between probes I would think. There are EC meters all over Amazon.
This would be measuring very very low levels of conductivity so I'm not sure if a fertilizer EC meter would read it? The water test results I looked at were measured in "micromhos". I wrote "ohms" before and that isn't correct, I think.... Makes my head swim.
From Wikipedia-
The siemens (SI unit symbol: S) is the unit of electric conductance, electric susceptance and electric admittance in the International System of Units (SI). Conductance, susceptance, and admittance are the reciprocals of resistance, reactance, and impedance respectively; hence one siemens is equal to the reciprocal of one ohm, and is also referred to as the mho.
So that's why I send it off to Heatmaster to test!
