Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Polar Furnace => Topic started by: slimjim on April 03, 2017, 11:29:54 AM

Title: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 03, 2017, 11:29:54 AM
I met Neal Rob up at the Fryburg fair last fall ( HI NEAL ) and he was running a Polar OWB, I think I posted some pics on here someplace,  because I was his competition, I tried hard not to sneak around to spy on his unit, this year I decided to take the product on simply on its quality build, today I fired up one of my G2 plus units, darn, I think the industry is on the right track, before it is even hot or even close, its gassing, check out the pics!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 03, 2017, 01:00:08 PM
I thought the lower door in the burn chamber was a nice touch for getting it started.

If I recall correctly the lower burn chamber is offset from the nozzle correct? This should ensure a swirl effect which should help towards a complete burn even if the nozzle is exposed.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 03, 2017, 01:02:39 PM
Kinda the other way around, the nozzle is offset and slanted to create a roll in the reaction chamber, my big surprise is the true quality of construction from the cabinet in.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: E Yoder on April 03, 2017, 02:49:11 PM
Makes you wish we could fast forward a few years. Lotsa good ideas being incorporated into new models.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 03, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
Fast forward, no thanks, open my eyes to newer, better performing products coming onto the market instead of seeing life through a tunnel, yea I like that!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 04, 2017, 06:52:08 AM
I went thru the owners manual last night, at least they admit that trying to run it all summer just to heat domestic hot water really isn't that good an ideal.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 04, 2017, 06:59:06 AM
I'm not sure any manufacturer has ever suggested that it was, however I do believe that keeping a boiler hot and circulating year round is beneficial to longevity, I personally like the idea of tying solar thermal to the boiler for summer use kind of killing 2 birds with one stone.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 04, 2017, 07:06:23 AM
I read a lot of manuals before pulling the trigger on a new unit. A lot of manufacturers just don’t address it at all. I’ve also been looking into vacuum tube solar collectors, trying to avoid the Made in PRC if possible. I can really see the benefits to keeping warm water in it year round with mild steel units.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 04, 2017, 07:11:57 AM
I think you will have a hard time finding a complete system that doesn't have at least a portion of it built in the PRC but while I was visiting with WoodMaster in Minnesota a few weeks ago, I think they said that they have a line on a product, I'll be speaking with Jill later today to see what they know, so darn many products there that it's hard for me to keep track!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 04, 2017, 08:02:34 AM
I got a few more pics of the cabinet and components, the quality truly shows!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 04, 2017, 09:25:40 AM
I like the door stop on the front. Do they use a piece of glass for the viewport or is that round disc just rotated to look in then shut when done?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 04, 2017, 09:41:47 AM
Oh no, it's a high quality disc with glass, it rotates to keep the glass clean, everything from the door stop, latches and all are very high quality even to the point that if an inside latch is left ajar, the outer door will not close and when the outer door is open there is a light that automatically comes on in the cabinet.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 04, 2017, 12:06:41 PM
How do they compair price wise?  Are they coming out with a model to compete with the HM G400?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 05, 2017, 07:44:22 AM
How do they compair price wise?  Are they coming out with a model to compete with the HM G400?

Seems like the current largest compares to the G200, so far from my experience not a lot of people really need a G400, they might want one so they can cut longer pieces or because it will be bigger than what the brother in law or neighbor has, but they really don’t need it. So far the G200 has been a heck of a work horse here.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 05, 2017, 07:58:30 AM
Yes, they are supposed to have one very soon, they are all very close in pricing, Polar so far is a bit cheaper on pricing.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 05, 2017, 10:59:36 AM
I am heating 1600 Sq ft of forced air and 5200 Sq ft of radiant and DMH.  My WM 5500 keeps 90% of the time.  I live on top of a hill (in WI) and have very little wind cover so when it gets windy I have a pretty large load. 
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 05, 2017, 12:01:08 PM
How much are you burning?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 05, 2017, 04:27:00 PM
When it is single digits or colder and windy I go through 1 of these about every 4 days. They are 66" tall x 36" wide x 44" deep. When its in the high teens and up I can get around 7days on 1.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 05, 2017, 04:29:49 PM
Where are you located?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 05, 2017, 04:49:28 PM
Lake Mills area.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 05, 2017, 08:33:49 PM
Thats an interesting use for the plastic tanks. I’ve been cutting the tops off and screwing them to a pallet and filling the tanks as well with wood.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 05, 2017, 08:58:35 PM
Yeah, that is a good idea. Do you have a cheap source for those totes?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 05, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
I paid $20 a piece for mine, was a mix of 275 and 330 gallon totes, everyone had “bad valve” or “leaky valve” wrote on em. Most of the time around here they want $75 a piece and up for em. Guy in Paw Paw Michigan has an add on Craigslist. He even delivered for a little extra saving me a trip.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 06, 2017, 05:59:45 AM
I get them for nothing.  We get glycol in them at work and when they have a bunch sitting at the shop they will let guys take them.  They work pretty good. When we cut we fill them up and haul them back to my place or my FIL'S. It saves on handling time on the wood.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 06, 2017, 05:08:56 PM
I was thinking it would work good to take them into the woods and fill them up.

Do you ever have spares that you want to get rid of?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on April 06, 2017, 05:27:22 PM
We take them right in the woods when we cut.
I usually take all I can get. There is not many sitting around the yard right now.  I will let you know if I am able to get some more. 
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 07, 2017, 07:41:27 PM
Sure am looking forward to getting my G2. Placing the order in a couple of days. They have a factory rebate on the G series right now good until the end of April. Gotta get it ordered to take advantage of that rebate...
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 06:36:39 AM
 I told Dave that I would post a few pics of our boiler swap out and back of boiler plumbing, here you go Dave!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 06:39:33 AM
Out with the old WoodDoctor, in with the new Polar, up and running in about 4 hours of work while my dog Chloe and their dog had some fun in the yard!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 08, 2017, 07:07:28 AM
What models pumps are those?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 07:10:03 AM
The recirculate loop up top is a Chinese knockoff Grundfoss supplied by the factory, the 2 zone circus are real Grundfoss 15-58s from my local supply house.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 08, 2017, 07:25:54 AM
I see now why I was confused about the lower pumps. They are rotated flange versions. The normal rotation ones don't have slots.

I can see Grundfos on the label on the top one. How do you tell that it is a knockoff?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 07:31:37 AM
The isolation flanges are copper connection and simply turned slightly so all the valves are easy to use and flange bolts are accessible. The easy way to recognize the knock off is the lack of slots on the flange and instead they have a simple hole, I have in the past had to drill the casting in order to get regular flange bolts through the crappy casting job.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on April 08, 2017, 07:33:07 AM
I like the Ecm fan motor.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 07:34:15 AM
Me to, it's very quiet, I also like the cabinet and it's design!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 08, 2017, 07:49:03 AM
The isolation flanges are copper connection and simply turned slightly so all the valves are easy to use and flange bolts are accessible. The easy way to recognize the knock off is the lack of slots on the flange and instead they have a simple hole, I have in the past had to drill the casting in order to get regular flange bolts through the crappy casting job.
That top pump does have slots though.

Real Grundfos 15-58 pumps don't have slots unless they are the rotated flange version like you have in the picture.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 07:57:42 AM
You know what, you are correct, that's weird because the one I'm test running here at the shop has the closed holes and not slots, it is also not rotated! Thanks for the correction!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 08, 2017, 11:37:23 AM
I may start using you’re heater hose technique Slim, that or I just need to invest in new dies for my power threader. Trying to get everything just right with common length pipe nipples is a pain. World of difference though from you’re area to mine, heaving just doesn’t occur here that often. All our grain bins sit on their own monolithic floor/foundations with the fans on their own pours and have never had a transition come apart yet.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 08, 2017, 06:10:29 PM
All it takes is once and the fittings pulling off the pipe and you will be using a swing joint or heater hose forever!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 08, 2017, 08:47:54 PM
All it takes is once and the fittings pulling off the pipe and you will be using a swing joint or heater hose forever!

Yah…but a few of these bins are old enough and I remember my Mom showing me them as they were being put up while she was holding my hand, so lets say 44+ years ago and nothing has shifted yet between the bin foundation and the pads the fans sit on.

Heaving happens here of course but of a different kind, what we have here will heave alfalfa out of the ground, but doesn’t seem strong enough to actually effect foundations or slabs. Planting orchard grass with the alfalfa is enough to stop it as the grass roots form enough of a mat to hold the alfalfa roots in the ground.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 08, 2017, 09:10:51 PM
Thanks for the pics SlimJim..Now I see how the hookups for the two pumps go. Have you had anything to do with Wilo Star S 16F pumps ?
The G2 does look like a nice unit...slick looking trailer you have too !  That sure would make moving those units around a lot easier..
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 08, 2017, 09:49:09 PM
Is there a reason you clamp the hose onto copper pipe instead of using hose barb fittings? Seems like that would be a lot quicker and cheaper.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 09, 2017, 04:39:00 AM
RSI, its quick, cheap, easy, never leaks, easy to adjust length and better flow than using a barbed fitting.
Dave, yes I have but it's been several years, they worked fine but I find it far easier to deal locally for that sort of stuff and getting anything warranties is much simpler.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 10, 2017, 05:10:11 PM
SliJim
The Wilo Star S 16 pump is from my local supply for OWB, well he is about 5 hours away but as local as I can find. Just wondered if it was a good product or something they might have been trying to get rid of. I assume the 16 is the head rating for the pump. Don't know maybe I should go a little larger ? The OWB will be about 150 feet from the house and about 200 feet from the garage. Then I figure  6 loops of 200 feet in the garage floor, but will have the circulating pump in the garage too..
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 10, 2017, 05:30:22 PM
What size underground pipe are you using?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 10, 2017, 05:33:23 PM
This says they discontinued that model in 2011 http://www.supplyhouse.com/Wilo-4105031-Star-S-16F-3-Speed-Cast-Iron-Star-Series-Circulator-1-20-HP
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: E Yoder on April 10, 2017, 06:08:42 PM
We used some Wilo 16's and 21's about 6-8 years ago but had probably a 25% failure rate within a year or two. But we may have got a bad batch. The 3 speed 21's had a weak speed switch that would break. Dunno.

The 16 sounds a bit small for a long run unless your desired flow rate is pretty low. Do the math figuring what Dt your system can tolerate. Pipe size will definitely affect the head needed. Velocity needed may vary depending on the height of the boiler to the buildings. Larger piping with small circs can be tough to blow air downhill.

Just a few thoughts...
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 12, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Thanks RSI and E Yoder

I will be using the 1" pipe underground. I think I might consider using 1" copper inside also. Don't know if I need it but most of the systems I see pictures of use 1"
Ya, the Wilo 16 seems to be discontinued like the link says. Guess maybe he has some old stock. Any suggestions for a good pump that might be available in Canada. SupplyHouse  seems to have lots of stuff, just that they won't ship to Canada.
How would I determine what flow rate is optimal ?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: E Yoder on April 12, 2017, 08:05:50 PM
Flow rate needed is one part of the equation, the delta t (return water temp difference) that your system can tolerate is as big a factor as flow. I don't remember the details of what you're tieing into. Some systems are much more touchy about low flow than others. Copper baseboard for instance.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 13, 2017, 02:58:09 AM
Oh, the copper baseboard doesn't care what the return temps are, your wife might and your stove might but the copper baseboard doesn't give a hoot, just for a matter of record, how often do you actually work with copper baseboard Eldon?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: E Yoder on April 13, 2017, 05:36:31 AM
Did I disagree?

I am concerned that the long 1" line will struggle to deliver enough flow to satisfy what's needed flow-wise in the house.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 14, 2017, 08:57:38 AM
Actually, most of the valves etc I see are 3/4". Is it okay to knock the 1" pipe coming from outside down to 3/4" ?
Still trying to source out the right pumps to install at the furnace. Think I found someone to supply pipe,valve etc in the Toronto area. They are called NEXT Supply. Seem to deal with everything I need. They say they are wholesalers but I asked and they will deal with the public.

Have a great Easter weekend.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 14, 2017, 09:11:18 AM
I would go with a Grundfos 26-99. You might be able to run on now which is a little more flow than that wilo but I think you will need more than that and probably need high speed.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 14, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
Do not choke your main loop plumbing down!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 14, 2017, 10:11:01 AM
Thanks for the pump suggestion RSI. I will look into them and see if they are available to me here..

So, I will need to do some more looking to find 1" valves and such. That is why I ask here...thanks SlimJim
Is there somewhere I can figure out what flow rate and head I need ? Must be a calculation somewhere..
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 14, 2017, 10:23:14 AM
I know that Taco has a very good site for figuring head and flow rates but I don't have it off the top of my head, search Taco head charts.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 15, 2017, 10:52:31 AM
I know that Taco has a very good site for figuring head and flow rates but I don't have it off the top of my head, search Taco head charts.


http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 15, 2017, 10:53:39 AM
Thanks for the pump suggestion RSI. I will look into them and see if they are available to me here..




http://www.supplyhouse.com or even Amazon

Oh wait…you already said something about not being able to ship to Canada? Or was that another thread/person.

Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: schoppy on April 15, 2017, 11:20:29 PM
Is the polar a mild steel boiler? It seems uncanny how similar the Polar and Heatmaster are in design. Wondering how they compare in efficiency?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: RSI on April 16, 2017, 12:46:07 AM
Is the polar a mild steel boiler? It seems uncanny how similar the Polar and Heatmaster are in design. Wondering how they compare in efficiency?
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-03/usepa_certified_hydronic_heaters_list.xlsx
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 16, 2017, 12:51:41 AM
Yes it is mild steel, no they are not even close in design, for instance Coolidge and I just ran some tests on the two that I have here, the Polar is running a far cooler(by100 degree) stack temp and higher water temp than the HeatMaster. Polar also uses a complete outside cabinet to cut back on some of the heat loss associated with the loading and reaction chamber doors, this also cuts down on the amount of condensation found on door jams.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 16, 2017, 10:14:51 AM

Oh wait…you already said something about not being able to ship to Canada? Or was that another thread/person.
[/quote]

No, that was me..supply house won't ship to Canada. I have looked at a few other places but nothing for sure yet. Seems I can get a Wilo Star 33FC, 3 speed pump, they say it is equivilant to the Taco 0011 or Grunfos 2699F
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 16, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
Do not choke your main loop plumbing down!
At what point can I go to 3/4 ?
I see that mixing valves, zone valves, and plate exchange for DHW are usually 3/4 MPT
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 16, 2017, 10:49:44 AM
I forget now Dave but if you are going more than about 50 feet to the garage then I would make a primary loop of 1 inch and use 2 tees, one could be a monoflow, for your radiant
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 16, 2017, 11:41:53 AM
I am real sorry SlimJim but I still don't understand at what point I can change from 1" PEX to 3/4 copper in the house and 1" PEX to 1/2 inch in the garage for the radiant floor pipe and manifold. I will try to draw something up and post back what I think I need to do. I will post it in the other thread so I am not jacking this one.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 16, 2017, 12:01:30 PM
You are fine Dave, you are keeping me from causing concern on the other thread anyway, I know I shouldn't be doing that but dam it I'm pissed! As far as a diagram, how about EMailing me with your idea, as far as flow goes the stove won't care but your heat load might!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 16, 2017, 12:40:08 PM
Sent you an email but can't attach pictures..
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 16, 2017, 02:09:44 PM
I don't think I got it Dave, my EMail is service@mainlycustom.com
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 16, 2017, 03:41:36 PM
Thanks very much..sent a new one
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: aarmga on April 16, 2017, 09:04:37 PM
Hey slim, no need to let a teenager get under your skin. We are grown men, just laugh it off or have a beer.  Punk kids these days are flocking my work place by the dozens everyday.  Luckily enough I have to power to fire these little motor mouths.  You are an intelligent man and I thank you for all your advise I have already gotten on your behalf.  Happy Easter btw!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 17, 2017, 02:53:25 AM
Thank you and actually he has helped me blow off some steam, I hope I didn't hurt his snowflake feelings!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 17, 2017, 07:42:40 AM
Thanks for the pump suggestion RSI. I will look into them and see if they are available to me here..

So, I will need to do some more looking to find 1" valves and such. That is why I ask here...thanks SlimJim
Is there somewhere I can figure out what flow rate and head I need ? Must be a calculation somewhere..

If you can, get those valves in full port, some may have one inch fittings but the hole thru em is more like 3/4”.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: DaveB on April 18, 2017, 01:19:28 PM
Thanks for the pump suggestion RSI. I will look into them and see if they are available to me here..

So, I will need to do some more looking to find 1" valves and such. That is why I ask here...thanks SlimJim
Is there somewhere I can figure out what flow rate and head I need ? Must be a calculation somewhere..

If you can, get those valves in full port, some may have one inch fittings but the hole thru em is more like 3/4”.

Thanks..I still can't wrap my head around were to drop pipe size down. When the 1" comes into the house, were does the size drop ?
And for the garage, If I get the 1"MTP plate exchanger, does the other loop off the primary on the other side of the plate have to be all 1" as well, how about the manifold ?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 18, 2017, 01:31:37 PM
You won’t actually drop down on your boiler loop, keep it all 1”, your domestic hot water will be 3/4”.

Only place you might drop is if your using a flat plate and a mono flo T, 1” side’s with a 3/4” middle.

Like this: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-MONOFLO1X3-4-1-x-3-4-Bronze-Monoflo-Tee
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 18, 2017, 06:04:08 PM
Mlappin is right,stay 1 inch through, if you need to drop down then do it at the tee rather it be mono flow or powered.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: userdk on April 18, 2017, 06:39:37 PM
Is the polar a mild steel boiler? It seems uncanny how similar the Polar and Heatmaster are in design. Wondering how they compare in efficiency?
There are some design differences as well as a slight difference in efficiency see attachment below.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on April 18, 2017, 07:39:31 PM
I wonder how close any of those claimed efficiency numbers actually are since when emission testing they didn’t even use cordwood, kiln dried mill cut oak blocks if I recall correctly.

It could change rather easily from filling it one time with larger splits on the verge of being too large too gas properly then the next time with much smaller pieces, ditto far as moisture as well. I do know either the G400 I did run or G200 I’m running now burned much less wood than my old one while heating more.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: aarmga on April 18, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
Is the polar a mild steel boiler? It seems uncanny how similar the Polar and Heatmaster are in design. Wondering how they compare in efficiency?
There are some design differences as well as a slight difference in efficiency see attachment below.

That's cheating
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 19, 2017, 12:36:48 AM
Yup you are right user, in the testing HeatMaster came in slightly ahead of the Polar in efficiency, have you ever been to the lab, the tests can and will be manipulated, did it happen here I don't know, I only posted what we found after Coolidge complained about using considerably more wood this year than he did last year with his P and M 250 the results we found did not surprise me as I found the stack temps pretty high on the HeatMaster unit as well but felt it was pretty good for an easy to operate boiler that it was, that is at least until this last issue.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on April 19, 2017, 08:19:17 AM
More wood than the pm250? How much more? I have never seen claimed efficiency numbers of the 250 but I can't imagine it is higher than the g200 numbers. As far as I know the 250 worked well when it was working and not plugged though. So if both were gassing than I can see burning the same amount.

Manipulating numbers? How so? Heatmaster is the only company that has published on the internet all of the reports from intertek.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 19, 2017, 11:37:25 AM
Well let's think about it Honda, if the stack temps are high in the HeatMaster and I'm saying around 400 and the Polar and P and M are under 300, they all are gassing and I think the P and M burned the hottest evident by the blue flame rather than a yellow to orange and the BTU output is roughly the same on all three units, them I'm thinking that the tests might not be completely accurate, kind of the same argument another patron of this site and I had a few years ago when he spouted 98 percent Efficiency, that company was sued by EPA to remove those results from their advertising, I'm not saying that HeatMaster has ever done anything like that but let's face it, tests can and are manipulated for the best results every day, personally I was simply trying to help a customer find some answers and then we thought perhaps they should be provided for all to see.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: E Yoder on April 19, 2017, 01:02:55 PM
I was impressed with Polar's test #'s. I think they've got a good unit.

But the natural variability of wood burning will vary efficiency quite a bit from test to test. And some things like unused O2 in the exhaust could drop efficiency and be unseen to the eye. I would guess without running weeks of tests it would be hard to know for sure.

They're both good units would be my thought.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on April 19, 2017, 03:55:30 PM
I have never seen my flue temps north of 340'but I also don't constantly take the flue temp. Every time I have done it the unit has been gassing hard. I see temps 310-340.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 19, 2017, 05:42:39 PM
Yup user they are both good units that are very similar in numbers but do it in different ways,this last issue and the way that it was handled by HeatMasterss and Jake is what soured me as well as them removing me from the dealer finder on their site within days after taking delivery of $50,000 of their product and then refusing to take those defective units back or paying me to repair them, by coincidence I had another person call me today asking what was going on, he wanted a G 200 and it seems he wanted it from me but had trouble finding me, is that really the way to treat a man who has invested so much in (Your Family) , I'll be calling Polar in the morning to place another order, by the way as you probably already know, that family never did pick up that olive branch today!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: aarmga on April 19, 2017, 09:27:55 PM
Yup user they are both good units that are very similar in numbers but do it in different ways,this last issue and the way that it was handled by HeatMasterss and Jake is what soured me as well as them removing me from the dealer finder on their site within days after taking delivery of $50,000 of their product and then refusing to take those defective units back or paying me to repair them, by coincidence I had another person call me today asking what was going on, he wanted a G 200 and it seems he wanted it from me but had trouble finding me, is that really the way to treat a man who has invested so much in (Your Family) , I'll be calling Polar in the morning to place another order, by the way as you probably already know, that family never did pick up that olive branch today!

I figured the pride would get to them.  This is EXACTLY how a company falls to its knees.  Just give it some time and if they don't shape up they won't be selling product anymore.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 20, 2017, 04:51:28 AM
you are so right aarmga, when Ryan sought me out a bit over 2 years ago oooooh they were sooo nice and had almost no presence at all here in the Northeast, they even had a hard time getting dealers out to the show in southern Pa and western NY.  Back then they did all they could to promote and protect their name, fast forward about 2 years, now they have a great reputation and presence here with a dealer not afraid to invest not only money but also lots of effort and their head swellls to the point of where we are today.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, they built a very good boiler, they stood behind their products, they stood behind their dealers,  well at least until about the first of 2017 in my case.
Personally I'm thinking that the theory that they have another investor bigger than I here that wants me gone is viable, going through all this because a dealer needs to expand and bring on other product to make a living just makes no sense! Oh well their decision good or bad, I'll move on with or without them, I just hope they continue to support our customers.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: aarmga on April 21, 2017, 11:11:15 PM
Glad to hear you say that.  U know what matters in this life sand it ain't green
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on April 23, 2017, 06:57:46 PM
Slim, stopped by and looked at the G2 out front. Looks like the firebox is the same size as the g100. Cabinet was well made with good fit and finish. I did have a question though, what is that slot for above the firebox that you can look straight back to the top of the heat exchanger tubes when you open the door? I also like the middle door for starting a fire. That would be great if you do batch burning. I will be interested to see how the steel nozzle holds up.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on April 24, 2017, 04:41:49 AM
Yup, I got it and will be sending it soon.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on July 27, 2017, 04:58:01 AM
I haven't posted here in a while but let's just say that I'm still impressed with the Polar unit and very surprised with the interest at our shows, we just finished my favorite little Fair in Waterford, Maine.
This is a quaint little fair that is very slow paced but with that being said, I took 3 different deposits at that tiny little show. We used the Polar G-2 plus to heat the showers as well as all the hot water for the cook shack, ( quick shout out and Thank You to Logstor for donating the pipe for the showers )
  We are currently at the Ossipee valley music festival and we are heating not only the 2 permanent showers but they again put in 2 more temporary showers for us to heat. There will be over 5000 people here at the show and all our showers will be busy from about 5 am through 11 am and then sporadic through the rest of the day. It's a 4 day show starting Thursday and ending Sunday eve, if you are nearby Please feel free to come on out and enjoy some music and stop by for a few adult beverages at the beer tent or our tent!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on July 27, 2017, 08:36:40 AM
Nothing like that here, the Blueberry Festival here doesn’t offer showers for starters. They do have one tent row where restaurants bring prepared food and sell it out of warmers, but any dirty dishes or utensils just go back to the restaurant to be washed. Have a Bluegrass festival at the other end of the county coming up shortly, we’ll drive over and see what it’s all about before committing to it.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on July 27, 2017, 09:12:31 AM
Here's another attempt at pics
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on July 27, 2017, 09:14:01 AM
Darn, and again
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on July 27, 2017, 09:16:50 AM
That last one is our friend Darrel, he lives here locally but has ridden that bike packed like it is all the way to the left coast, we keep telling him that he might just be a bit soft in the squish but he won't believe us.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on July 27, 2017, 01:54:04 PM
I enjoyed the heck out of my street bike when I had it, only road locally though, had zero desire to do like my uncle and ride it clear out to the Dakotas to Sturgis or down to Florida for Bike Week. Can’t imagine sharing the road now with the idiots in cars who pay more attention to their cell phones than they're driving.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 06, 2017, 01:26:35 PM
So, we just did another boiler swap out, this one is a 15 year old Wood Doctor that finally gave up the ghost, it had never been welded on and I may be able to resurrect it for a cheap unit in the right home.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: FrozenMongrel on August 06, 2017, 07:29:36 PM
So, we just did another boiler swap out, this one is a 15 year old Wood Doctor that finally gave up the ghost, it had never been welded on and I may be able to resurrect it for a cheap unit in the right home.

Nice to see you still active in the swap out business!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on August 06, 2017, 08:30:04 PM
Have an old Woodmaster to tune up shortly, think my guy said it was going on 17 years old, doesn’t leak, but has some corrosion to be repaired for the door seal. He sold it to someone else in the next county so soon as they pay I’ll go and pick it up and drop it then grab the new G100 and deliver it. Still have to get wit the other guy to see what his plans are for this year after I’m done repairing the Woodmaster. Younger couple bought it, have kids, can’t afford a new stove and certainly can’t afford to keep buying LP every year, hopefully it lasts long enough they can save a little up.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 05:41:23 AM
Thanks Frozen, yup I'm still in the game and the new Polars are working out very well, much better than expected in fact I'll be calling in another order today and showing one running at the Topsham Me. Fair this week, it's a new show for us so I don't know how this one will do.
Marty, I'm having trouble posting some pics of an old 1970s version Army surplus SkidSteer backhoe combination that the neighbor used to redig the ditch in order to replace the pipe, I think you would like this contraption
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on August 07, 2017, 10:33:54 AM
Not sure why Slim is having problems, but here’s the picture. A neighbor has a few of those, but they attach directly to the quick tach plate, they are heavy enough he chains them back to the cross brace on the loader boom.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/xruxVzPkn5OrRSD4T17fSSCowjyRvcGoqVkhvFDJgpK     

Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 10:35:03 AM
Oops, yours didn't post either Marty! Thanks!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on August 07, 2017, 10:39:38 AM
Oops, yours didn't post either Marty! Thanks!

yah, they’ll have to follow the link, I tried it on Amazon drive and that link doesn’t have a .jpg at the end so the image function doesn’t work. I may have to try something else other than Amazon Drive to store photos.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 10:42:55 AM
That's odd, sometimes I can post directly and other times not, kind of reminds me of an old folk song I liked named ( an occasional chair ), I'll see if I can find it and send it to you!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 11:49:19 AM
I see admin is working on something, perhaps I can get a pic on now
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 11:49:59 AM
Woooooo hooooo, THANK YOU!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on August 07, 2017, 12:49:32 PM
Woooooo hooooo, THANK YOU!

I didn’t do it, I was greasing the discbine
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on August 07, 2017, 12:50:43 PM
When are the g4's coming out?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
Sooo, the boss popping in unannounced was just coincidence?
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on August 07, 2017, 09:06:16 PM
Sooo, the boss popping in unannounced was just coincidence?

Eh? I’m the boss, if the wife or father think they are I just quit fixing their cell phones, tv’s, DVR’s, or vehicles until proper chain of command is perceived.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on August 09, 2017, 06:35:16 PM
I'm not sure stmftr and I think when they do that it will more than likely not be EPA approved and probably only available north of the border.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: stmftr on August 10, 2017, 09:04:58 AM
10 4 Slim, thanks.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on September 17, 2017, 06:15:07 AM
New fair for us this year, here we are at the Farmington, Maine fairgrounds. This would be a good time to catch us running the G 2 plus and stock up on circs, boiler treatment, water samples etc.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on September 17, 2017, 06:28:33 AM
Yup it's running, stack temp is right where it should be at 300, the red dial shows highest it's been.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: tinfoilhat2020 on November 03, 2017, 02:26:04 AM
I like their use of nice temp gauges.....very nice
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on November 03, 2017, 05:32:37 AM
And those temps are using that same not so seasoned Oak, I bet if o were burning the dry maple that Honda does in his boiler, the stack temp would come down,.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: tinfoilhat2020 on November 03, 2017, 07:42:44 AM
slim im burning all season white/red oak and locust....so once u send me that temp gauge we shall see! im intersted to see the difference between wood species. i also have one rick of 3yr okd seasoned cherry and a gew ricks of 4yr old seasoned hickory :) id love to chart the difference in wood species. i tell ya that seasoned shagbark hickory is one hot fire
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on November 03, 2017, 09:38:14 AM
I bet that it is, it will be interesting to see as well with high moisture content stuff like I burn and compare notes.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: mlappin on November 03, 2017, 12:08:06 PM
slim im burning all season white/red oak and locust....so once u send me that temp gauge we shall see! im intersted to see the difference between wood species. i also have one rick of 3yr okd seasoned cherry and a gew ricks of 4yr old seasoned hickory :) id love to chart the difference in wood species. i tell ya that seasoned shagbark hickory is one hot fire

Not a lot of it around here, but hedge apple is also supposed to be one of the hottest, also known as osage orange, cut and split green or forget it. Ironwood (hophornbeam) also burns pretty hot if they actually get big enough to cut up.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: tinfoilhat2020 on November 03, 2017, 05:24:19 PM
ive burnt hedge....that is one HOT fire...and watch out for the fireworks display!!! lol
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: WoodMOJoe on November 05, 2017, 07:31:40 AM
ive burnt hedge....that is one HOT fire...and watch out for the fireworks display!!! lol

Yeh that stuff pops and sparks like no other firewood I have ever seen and burns hotter than 2 rats in a wool sock in the attic of a foundry...on planet Mercury.   >:D
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on November 14, 2017, 10:47:20 AM
Mine arrived today Marty, 3 of the G-3s have deposits on them, I'm surprised that we are still hopping!
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: tinfoilhat2020 on November 14, 2017, 12:10:13 PM
Slim, don't forget about me!!! I really want to get on of those flue gas temp gauges!!!!! Thanks buddy~
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: slimjim on November 14, 2017, 12:11:21 PM
I'm not forgetting, haven't unpacked yet.
Title: Re: I'm impressed
Post by: tinfoilhat2020 on November 16, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
slim,

going to see a G2-Plus in action this weekend, guy down the road has one....just an FYI ill try and snap a few pics