Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Shaver Furnace => Topic started by: briguy on December 15, 2010, 04:22:53 PM

Title: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 15, 2010, 04:22:53 PM
Can someone tell me what mods to do to the shaver? I know this unit can be better. I am going through wood like crazy!  :bash:
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: tulenutn2o on December 15, 2010, 05:28:30 PM
Can't help with a poor design. Maybe make it a lawn ornament. Is your wood seasoned good and dry? I looked  a long time before I bought and decided against shaver because  I did not feel their claims would hold up. Burning wood is not rocket science, and neither is this stove. It is pretty darn basic.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 15, 2010, 06:23:31 PM
Yeah, this unit is not working very well. I would love to hear from experienced people who did the right mods to make theirs work well.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoda on December 15, 2010, 06:34:52 PM
 What type of problems are you having? How many sq feet are you heating? where do you live? How long have you owned your shaver and how much wood are you going through? What type of wood? seasoned or green?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 15, 2010, 06:46:35 PM
What type of problems are you having? How many sq feet are you heating? where do you live? How long have you owned your shaver and how much wood are you going through? What type of wood? seasoned or green?
just an added question...how far from the house and how well insulated are your underground pipes
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Larson88 on December 15, 2010, 10:33:32 PM
personaly i think (along with most others) that the most important thing for an owb is that the fire shuts down tight from oxygen when its not calling for it and shavers dont and thats prolly one of the biggest reasons your burning to much wood. most furnaces come complete with a solenoid that opens and closes a rubber flap on your blower when it kicks on and off, that would be your first mod here is a link just to give you an idea

 http://www.altheatsupply.com/index.php/shop-by-needs/outdoor-wood-furnace-parts/replacement-parts.html?p=2 (http://www.altheatsupply.com/index.php/shop-by-needs/outdoor-wood-furnace-parts/replacement-parts.html?p=2)

look at the laminated solenoid and the fan cover.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 16, 2010, 06:39:06 AM
 I agree with Larson88, allowing your furnace to slowly burn constantly will not only burn more wood but it can cause creosote problems as well. A hot fire burns more cleanly and efficiently.  You want the furnace either burning hot with the draft fan running or not burning at all. A good way to tell if you have it sealing correctly is to watch the smoke. If everything is shut off the smoke should be barely moving out of the stack. If you have a plume of smoke when the furnace is shut off you need to find the air leak.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 16, 2010, 05:15:16 PM
My furnace is 70 feet away. The lines are buried 4 feet down and placed in the bubble wrap 4 inch corrugated pipe. My house is a 2000 square foot ranch. The house is 2 years old with 2 x 6 walls with sprayed in insulation  The boiler feeds a hx. When the furnace is fed constantly it has no problem maintaining 70 degrees in below freezing weather. My problem is that I can't possible keep up with it's demand. I just tried to put a dampner in the smoke stack. I hope this helps? Any thoughts? Other thanthe dampner in smoke stack, what else should I do? Forgive me for not having a lot of knowledge on this. I do realize that this might be one of those trial and error projects in which I was told it be.

Thanks for all your help.
I am just a man trying to keep his 3 kids warm!
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Scott7m on December 16, 2010, 06:08:04 PM
Kinda sucks when you buy a stove that's not completed!  I would assume you would have paid a couple hundred more for a stove that you didn't have these problems with.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 16, 2010, 06:23:38 PM
Kinda sucks when you buy a stove that's not completed!  I would assume you would have paid a couple hundred more for a stove that you didn't have these problems with.
[/quote
]no need to bash the guy, after all he is in the shaver forum looking for help, i would think everyone with a shaver would offer their support and tell him what mods they did to make their stove better. I think the  mod of the blower and solenoid is a good start.
if he was having problems with one of your  models (as i am sure some folks have) would you bash him for buying a clunker or offer a suggestion to maybe help out

Briguy read on, i am sure help is here from some folks
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 16, 2010, 06:46:10 PM
Yes, you are right, I do not need bashing since I get it when I look at my infant shivering and my other two daughters wearing hooded sweatshirts to bed. I spent all of our money on this and feel guilty about it. The only thing left to do is move forward.

I will try the blower mod to see if that works a little better.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 16, 2010, 06:52:01 PM
There are several cheap/easy mods to improve the Shaver's performance  Here are mine

My Flapper blower mod

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=110817&highlight= (http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=110817&highlight=)


I put a double wall chimney pipe over the original flue pipe.  You will need to make the hole in the roof bigger then reseal. Here it is

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(alslozy1x5lpdx55wmktsxit)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45065&&SessionExpired=True (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(alslozy1x5lpdx55wmktsxit)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45065&&SessionExpired=True)

I replaced the thermostat with a Ranco. This is a must do for the Shaver. Allows precise on/off of the blower within the temps you want.  Also has a readout of waer temp.

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?644-Ranco-ETC-111000-000-120V-Wiring-Guide (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?644-Ranco-ETC-111000-000-120V-Wiring-Guide)

You will need to put a dry well in the OWB for the probe of the Ranco.  I made a drywell out of a 14" piece of 1/4" copper tubing.   I soldiered a cap on one end and a 1/4 to 3/8 coupler on the other.  You will need to drill a hole in the top of the water jacket.  Insert the well you made. the coupler will prevent it from falling into water jacket.  seal it with hi-temp silicone.  Insert Ranco probe.
Other things I did.

Slid foil face foam under the OWB

Filled the attic of the OWB with unfaced insulation after the flue mod

Fill the inside of the back door of OWB with unfaced insulation

Also stuffed unfaced insulation inside the firebox door.  Just stuff it in between the door and that shield.  It will need replaced yearly.

With these easy mods you will transform the Shaver into a much more efficient OWB.  The mods are cheap and easy to do.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 16, 2010, 06:56:06 PM
briguy,


I sent you a PM
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 16, 2010, 07:00:51 PM
now that is what i call HELP  good post windwalker!

that is the kind of posts that have built this site to be as good as it is and still growing.
thank you from me and i am sure from the organizer (s) of the site as well
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 16, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
Just glad to help!


I've been in those shoes and have had people help me in similar ways on other matters.  Just paying it forward.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 16, 2010, 07:13:41 PM
i think that is what this site was built for, glad to see it works. talk about paying it forward, my neighbor called tonight and asked if i could pull a guy out of the ditch as her husband was not home, i said my big tractor is not home but my little 20 horse  garden tractor was here and i would give it a try. well i did a lot of squirming and using the bucket to help push me back and him out and i got him out. turn out he was in my country (canada) for the first time and he offered me 20 bucks for the pull. i told him to give that 20 to someone that he thought might be able to use it to have a good christmas and sent him on his  way and told him my payment would be his promise to help someone else out when he seen the opertunity. (i believe he will becasue i still think humanity is not sunk yet)
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 16, 2010, 07:17:27 PM
Very good deed you did there!

If everyone were like that, this world would be a much better place.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Scott7m on December 16, 2010, 08:00:40 PM
I was not bashing the owner at all, sorry it seemed that way!  My point is that shaver uses a price point tactic and then send you home to "make it work"   Thats not good for the entire industry. 
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 16, 2010, 08:23:27 PM
Just read all of your post and got a material list together! I will get the parts and get started! I will let all of you know the progress I make.
I can't thank you guys enough! I have been wearing my heart on my sleeve so to speak. Not to mention the amount of sleep I have been loosing over this!

Brian
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 16, 2010, 08:38:50 PM
 Scott, I agree with you.  So many people don't know that much about the different brands, so you are very correct that it gives all outdoor furnaces a bad name. Its not just Shaver although it seems to be all we hear about on this forum, there are several other brands that also haven't helped the reputations of outdoor furnaces. Hopefully Shaver hears these complaints and finds ways to improve. I know some people don't believe me when I say this but I would rather sell against dealers with a quality product. To often if a potential customer hears of a horror story from another dealer/furnace brand, they lump all furnaces together and don't buy anything. At least when you sell against quality the customer is encouraged to buy a furnace and then its up to me to sell them mine.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 16, 2010, 09:19:35 PM
Windwalker, I agree with willie , Cant ask for better help than that .

 Willie that was a nice deed you did there. I always try to do the same .Its such a good feeling to be able to help somebody that is down and out . I truly believe it comes back to you .

As for what you said about the forum .Its sad its not regulated more to keep it as more of an information place instead of constant bashing that never stops. Look at the second post . Guy offers no help except to down the furnace . I have had the same  problem with other forums too. Someone asks for help and they are bombarded with negative posts. We need to focus on helping people . I explain the upgades to each customer and not everybody wants them. Its thier choice. They can do them later if they want . Some people still want the simple design and no parts to fail someday at the worst possible time. I am one of those people. Sometimes less is better. I like the ranco and the flapper /selenoid too but was very skeptical about doing them due to the possibility of failure of the parts. Guess what ,, The selenoid went bad already . No spare at the time so a little bit of a hassel for a few days.  I'm going to change to windwalkers simpler way (dryer vent air flapper )  as soon as i can make some room for it. Remember everybody is different and just because you dont like something doesn't mean it wont work for someone else.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 16, 2010, 09:32:10 PM
Yoder , I totally disagree . I hear bad stuff about all kinds of products all the time . Doesn't make me not buy . If someone wants a furnace they can and will weed through the info and make their own choice . If Shaver is that bad your sales should be booming. Most of these problems are from people not installing them correctly. I know this from my own install. Now I'm making changes and things are working very good.

Briguy . My number is at the bottom of my posts . Feel free to call if you like for help .
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 16, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
russ be carefull of only going with a flapper. my neighbour did that (he bought one form a heatmore dealer, i only metnion that becasue i am not sure if they use them on their stoves or not) and on certian days when the wind was just right the wind would blow the hanging flapper open and boil his stove. he ended up going to a solenoid as well, solved his problems.

in year 8 my solenoid went out but they are an item that can be found easily. i now have a spare on the shelf. i think when i replaced mine it was about 25 or 30 bucks so i bought 2, also my uncle down the road uses the same fan as me so we pooled together and he bought one for a spare between us. the first one to use either has to replace it.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 16, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Well I dont have the room for it now anyway . Still plan on trying it someday though. Windwalker has been doing this for a while now with good results. I guess you gotta get the spring tension right.I'm inside a buiding now so wind shouldn't affect me now.  It would be nice to get rid of the selenoid. When mine failed Shaver sent one out  right away . I have since found a spare too.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 17, 2010, 07:25:07 AM
I just did the blower mod,still tinkering with the flapper wants to stay open just a touch,think it has to do with which way the winds blowing,I using a magnet with an 1/8" bolt epoxyed to the bottom of the flap.This unit is a different animal after these mods.One thing that I have noticed is with the intense fire when the blower is running I see wiffs of smoke escaping around the firebox door,I is this a big deal?When the blower shuts down it stops. 
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 17, 2010, 10:35:55 AM
 Most furnaces have adjustable doors. I've never looked at a Shaver door but if they are like every other furnace I've seen you should have several bolts you can adjust to tighten down the door or the latch.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 17, 2010, 11:59:19 AM
Really there is no adjustment,the lever on my door was a little loose from the getgo I just used a shim to get it tight now I have an 1/8" piece of steel as a shim and seemed fine until I did the blower mod and the thing became an incinerator.I thought about using a bigger shim and reffing down on the door latch but I dont like that idea.btw thanks for the reply
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 17, 2010, 12:18:15 PM
You may need to reseal the door.  Wait for a warmer day though.  Let the OWB cool down.

Reseal with hi-temp silicone. put parchment paper (some people use wax paper) over the fresh silicone so it doesn't stick to firebox opening and close the door slightly. Don't close the door all the way, just a little bit so the edge of the firebox opening will indent the silicone.

After the silicone drys, close all the way. You're done!


I put a really thick bead of silicone when I do it.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 17, 2010, 12:27:14 PM
Well I dont have the room for it now anyway . Still plan on trying it someday though. Windwalker has been doing this for a while now with good results. I guess you gotta get the spring tension right.I'm inside a buiding now so wind shouldn't affect me now.  It would be nice to get rid of the selenoid. When mine failed Shaver sent one out  right away . I have since found a spare too.



Hey just wanted to clarify, there is no spring tension, works by gravity.  I used a 45* , 4inch elbow so that the angle of the elbow would help keep it closed.  Also have wood screw in the bottom of flap and a magnet to help.

The flap is just a plastic dryer vent from Home Depot.  Several guys on the other forum, have variations of this mod.  Some just used a Dinty Moore soup can instead of the elbow and added a small bolt for weight to keep it closed.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: smoak on December 17, 2010, 06:15:38 PM
''I've never looked at a Shaver door''????  WOW....Mr. Yoderheating.... Well then how can you have any sort of intelligent  input on the topic  Mr. Heat Master Seller ??? If you've never looked at a Shaver door then you've obviously never seen a Shaver stove,huh?? But you seem to have a lot to say about them....Maybe not enough activity on the Heat Master pages?? A lot of rave reviews on the product  you're selling huh???? You comments on the Shaver stoves show you probably  know little firsthand of  what you're talking about with regards to their features, functions, reliability, shortcomings, performance,or anything about them.....
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 17, 2010, 07:38:53 PM
Hmm I tried to post my update and noticed nothing posted... Here is what I think I typed.
\
Update #1
The first mod I did was to stop the steaming out of the overflow nipple.
2nd I started to insulate under the unit and in the door. I then looked on top and noticed a huge 1.5 inch of metal missing from the area where the domestic lines are dropped in. I should have seen that when I sealed it but must have missed it. All the insulation was soaking wet. I used high temp silicone and automotive cork gasket for now. It seems to be holding since I see no moisture (knock on wood).
I also noticed you put Styrofoam pipe insulation inside the unit. I did this today as well.
I was going to the fan mod today but I bought a 90* instead of a 45*. No matter though because I need to make room and buy a couple of 90* shark bites.

With those couple of improvements my fan turned off for the first time since the weather hit freezing!

Outside temp is now 22*f and INSIDE IS 72*!
My daughters thank you since they just got out of their baths without shivering! Ages 6 and 4. Infant is sleeping soundly!

I feel like a hero but owe you guys the credit, especially Windwalker7.

I will keep posting as I do more mods.

TO Yoderheating... apology accepted and thanks for the tip.

BTW the door hinge bolt came in broken and continues to break even with grade 8 bolt. Not hard to fix but it always happen at the wrong times.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 17, 2010, 08:28:13 PM
''I've never looked at a Shaver door''????  WOW....Mr. Yoderheating.... Well then how can you have any sort of intelligent  input on the topic  Mr. Heat Master Seller ??? If you've never looked at a Shaver door then you've obviously never seen a Shaver stove,huh?? But you seem to have a lot to say about them....Maybe not enough activity on the Heat Master pages?? A lot of rave reviews on the product  you're selling huh???? You comments on the Shaver stoves show you probably  know little firsthand of  what you're talking about with regards to their features, functions, reliability, shortcomings, performance,or anything about them.....
I've seen the furnaces but have never studied the door design.  And as far as talking about the design I have never said anything about the design except for comment on what every one else has been complaining about on here. Like I've said 20 times already, I hope they get the kinks worked out. It sounds like they do not have a design flaw, they just need to add a damper and a thermostat. They have been after me to become a dealer and I would consider it if these were standard.
 Sure, Heat Masters page doesn't have much activity. I don't know why that is, maybe a combination of them not being one of the larger furnace companies and also not having lots of problems. Heat Master owners ( along with many other brands) don't need to have long conversations about how to make modifications to their furnaces.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 17, 2010, 08:36:36 PM
yonder, i believe (if teh internet is right) that shaver has in fact made many improvements such as blowers and things. i have been to their page on the net and they have a long list of things on their stoves


http://www.outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.com/FAQ-outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.htm#One (http://www.outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.com/FAQ-outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.htm#One) of the reasons our prices are so low

are these new things they have added or have they always had them?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 17, 2010, 08:58:11 PM
I wanted to add this.

When I did my blower mod I also did the Ranco thermostat at the same time.

I am unsure how the blower mod will work with the stock thermostat. 

It will work, but the stock thermostat seems slow to react to the water temp changes inside the water jacket.

When you do the blower mod, it will look like a blast furnace inside when the blower is on. The water temp will climb much quicker than the stock set up. It gets up to temp quickly.

I set my temp at 150*.  If you are going to use the stock thermostat, keep an eye on things for a while.  It may cause a boilover if the stock thermostat doesn't react quick enough to shut the blower off. Just wanted to give you a heads up.  Maybe lowering the thermostat temp will help if it gets too hot.

Like I said, with the Ranco I can control the temp precisely. If you save that link I used in the other post for the Ranco, it shows you how to wire it up. The directions that come with it are a little hard to understand. that site makes it pretty easy. That is if you decide you need one.


I realize there is a little expense to these mods, but they are worth it for the difference you will see.

Also, after I saw that the blower mod worked great, I went ahead and ran a bead of silicone where the elbow butts up against the blower.  Kinda glues it in place.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 17, 2010, 10:04:55 PM
yonder, i believe (if teh internet is right) that shaver has in fact made many improvements such as blowers and things. i have been to their page on the net and they have a long list of things on their stoves


http://www.outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.com/FAQ-outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.htm#One (http://www.outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.com/FAQ-outdoor-wood-furnace-boiler.htm#One) of the reasons our prices are so low

are these new things they have added or have they always had them?

 From what I understand they have blowers but no draft control (draft is open all the time). One question I have been asking for some time and no one has been able to answer. What is the thickness of the water jacket? I had a customer who decided not to purchase one because he said the water jacket wasn't as thick as the firebox. I doubt this is true but I can't find any info on the website and none of the dealers I have spoken to seem to know either.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 17, 2010, 10:22:20 PM
1/8"  I   think.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 17, 2010, 10:24:06 PM
if you read through the link i sent it says the water jacket is .125 (1/8) and the fire box is .400
i am not sure (as i don't really care) but i think in most stoves i have seen in my area most water jackets are about this thick. what i don't like about some stainless stoves is they usee 1/8 or a little less for the fire box as well and with all the banging that part of the stove takes when throwing in heavy and jagged wood..well i always fear it could get damaged.

Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 17, 2010, 10:24:16 PM
I believe Shaver does have the option to get a blower with a selonoid damper on it now,
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 17, 2010, 11:15:32 PM
if you read through the link i sent it says the water jacket is .125 (1/8) and the fire box is .400
i am not sure (as i don't really care) but i think in most stoves i have seen in my area most water jackets are about this thick. what i don't like about some stainless stoves is they usee 1/8 or a little less for the fire box as well and with all the banging that part of the stove takes when throwing in heavy and jagged wood..well i always fear it could get damaged.
Okay, I followed the link and read down through the info but I must have missed it somewhere. I've never heard of a mild steel furnace using a water jacket that thin, I'm fairly sure most of them use the same thickness as the firebox (Woodmaster uses 1/4 inch on both, Natures Comfort uses 3/16 I believe).  Almost every furnace that I have ever heard of having a corrosion problem was always in the water jacket. Most of the ones I've seen have been where sediment builds up in the bottom of the tank.
 The stainless furnaces I sell are built out of 10 gauge. That is about as thick as I know of for furnaces built out of stainless, some are made as light as 16 gauge. I have sold hundreds of furnaces and have never had any problems with throwing wood in and hitting the back.   I've had other people ask about that but so far I have not heard of it causing any problems.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 18, 2010, 04:50:23 AM
Its 6:30 AM and I just put some wood in. The house was warm ALL night. The thermostat and blower mod will happen today if I can get the parts I need. If I cant I.. I will order them.

What a difference, not just in the heat...but in humanity as well.

Pay it  forward indeed.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on December 18, 2010, 05:50:51 AM
Its 6:30 AM and I just put some wood in. The house was warm ALL night. The thermostat and blower mod will happen today if I can get the parts I need. If I cant I.. I will order them.

What a difference, not just in the heat...but in humanity as well.

Pay it  forward indeed.
Perfect, so glad to hear things in the heat department are looking up!
Merry Christmas
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 18, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
if you read through the link i sent it says the water jacket is .125 (1/8) and the fire box is .400
i am not sure (as i don't really care) but i think in most stoves i have seen in my area most water jackets are about this thick. what i don't like about some stainless stoves is they usee 1/8 or a little less for the fire box as well and with all the banging that part of the stove takes when throwing in heavy and jagged wood..well i always fear it could get damaged.
Okay, I followed the link and read down through the info but I must have missed it somewhere. I've never heard of a mild steel furnace using a water jacket that thin, I'm fairly sure most of them use the same thickness as the firebox (Woodmaster uses 1/4 inch on both, Natures Comfort uses 3/16 I believe).  Almost every furnace that I have ever heard of having a corrosion problem was always in the water jacket. Most of the ones I've seen have been where sediment builds up in the bottom of the tank.
 The stainless furnaces I sell are built out of 10 gauge. That is about as thick as I know of for furnaces built out of stainless, some are made as light as 16 gauge. I have sold hundreds of furnaces and have never had any problems with throwing wood in and hitting the back.   I've had other people ask about that but so far I have not heard of it causing any problems.







I get the impression you are desperately fishing around trying to find something to say that the furnaces you sell are built better than Shaver.   You can't claim a thicker firebox, so you look at water jacket thickness.


OK we will give you the nod.  Your water jacket is 1 guage thicker.


You keep throwing around those words "stainless steel"


You do realize don't you, that a couple OWB manufacturers quite making their furnace out of stainless.  Central boiler is recognized as the king of OWBs and they quit using SS. Hawken found it to be the weak link in their system too.


We all have replaced the mufflers on our cars.  Aren't they are made of SS.

Listen, I can understand you want to sell your furnaces, but will you please go to one of the other OWB manufactured forums and put down their furnace.  It is getting old on this forum.


The constant  bashing is  really becoming a nuisense.


If you don't like Shaver OWB that is your right, but really.....do you constantly need to annoy everyone about it?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 18, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
When you sit down and order a Shaver those options are available. I'm telling you people still dont want them even after seeing mine and i have the parts for them to look at and touch .Still say they will deal with them later. Just dont have the extra cash at the time. The fan comes with a slide damper flap . You can set it and adjust as you need too. Some people are around enough to make this work.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 18, 2010, 08:42:21 AM
Let us look at this thread.  We have a guy asking for help.

Let 's use a metaphor to explain this thread.



You are walking along and see someone splashing around in a pond screaming for help because they can't swim.

You got guys standing along shore shouting back at him.

They say things like. "Should've learned to swim!"......"Should've stayed out of the water!"....." Hey I know how to swim, how come you don't?"........Hey, I can sell you a floatation jacket!"


Instead of trying help the guy out, they stand back and throw insults.  Some people just feel bigger kicking someone else when they are down, I guess.

Really......come on guys....we all burn with OWBs.  Does it really matter what brand you have?  We should be working together to help each other out, not bashing each other.


It would be easy to pick apart the warranty of Heatmaster but I don't do it.  Because I realize that is someone's livelyhood and it wouldn't be right.


"Can't we all just get along?"
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 18, 2010, 08:44:41 AM
if you read through the link i sent it says the water jacket is .125 (1/8) and the fire box is .400
i am not sure (as i don't really care) but i think in most stoves i have seen in my area most water jackets are about this thick. what i don't like about some stainless stoves is they usee 1/8 or a little less for the fire box as well and with all the banging that part of the stove takes when throwing in heavy and jagged wood..well i always fear it could get damaged.
Okay, I followed the link and read down through the info but I must have missed it somewhere. I've never heard of a mild steel furnace using a water jacket that thin, I'm fairly sure most of them use the same thickness as the firebox (Woodmaster uses 1/4 inch on both, Natures Comfort uses 3/16 I believe).  Almost every furnace that I have ever heard of having a corrosion problem was always in the water jacket. Most of the ones I've seen have been where sediment builds up in the bottom of the tank.
 The stainless furnaces I sell are built out of 10 gauge. That is about as thick as I know of for furnaces built out of stainless, some are made as light as 16 gauge. I have sold hundreds of furnaces and have never had any problems with throwing wood in and hitting the back.   I've had other people ask about that but so far I have not heard of it causing any problems.







I get the impression you are desperately fishing around trying to find something to say that the furnaces you sell are built better than Shaver.   You can't claim a thicker firebox, so you look at water jacket thickness.


OK we will give you the nod.  Your water jacket is 1 guage thicker.


You keep throwing around those words "stainless steel"


You do realize don't you, that a couple OWB manufacturers quite making their furnace out of stainless.  Central boiler is recognized as the king of OWBs and they quit using SS. Hawken found it to be the weak link in their system too.


We all have replaced the mufflers on our cars.  Aren't they are made of SS.

Listen, I can understand you want to sell your furnaces, but will you please go to one of the other OWB manufactured forums and put down their furnace.  It is getting old on this forum.


The constant  bashing is  really becoming a nuisense.


If you don't like Shaver OWB that is your right, but really.....do you constantly need to annoy everyone about it?
I don't make any claims of selling a furnace with a thick firebox or water jacket. Heat Master uses 10gauge, not very thick compared to most furnaces. You are correct, stainless will corrode just like mild steel. It is more resistant but it still can.  This is why we still use water treatment in the furnaces.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 18, 2010, 08:49:53 AM
Let us look at this thread.  We have a guy asking for help.

Let 's use a metaphor to explain this thread.



You are walking along and see someone splashing around in a pond screaming for help because they can't swim.

You got guys standing along shore shouting back at him.

They say things like. "Should've learned to swim!"......"Should've stayed out of the water!"....." Hey I know how to swim, how come you don't?"........Hey, I can sell you a floatation jacket!"


Instead of trying help the guy out, they stand back and throw insults.  Some people just feel bigger kicking someone else when they are down, I guess.

Really......come on guys....we all burn with OWBs.  Does it really matter what brand you have?  We should be working together to help each other out, not bashing each other.


It would be easy to pick apart the warranty of Heatmaster but I don't do it.  Because I realize that is someone's livelyhood and it wouldn't be right.


"Can't we all just get along?"
I'm not trying to kick a man when he's down by any means. If you look back over mys posts you will find that I have spent a lot of time giving advice to people using all kinds of furnaces.
 If you have questions or problems with the product I sell or the way I install furnaces, I would love to hear it. It really isn't going to hurt my feelings, in fact I would enjoy talking to you about it.  Feed back is the best way to learn how to improve.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 18, 2010, 09:03:07 AM
Its 6:30 AM and I just put some wood in. The house was warm ALL night. The thermostat and blower mod will happen today if I can get the parts I need. If I cant I.. I will order them.

What a difference, not just in the heat...but in humanity as well.

Pay it  forward indeed.




Hey, wanted to say, when you drill a hole for the drywell, it might be a good idea to have a shop vac there to inhale the metal shavings as you drill.  It would be better to keep them out of the water jacket.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: briguy on December 18, 2010, 06:43:08 PM
No luck on getting the Ranco today so I ordered one. I will use the shop vac for sure.
Should I have an air bleeder somewhere? I was told to turn valve off and on a number of times and this gets any air out. My father says I should have one at the highest level. The air handler is in the attic and I guess  it would need to be on the return side??

Great metaphor by the way. I was treading water while holding a 5lb brick overhead.

Here is a story that actually happen to me years ago. I learned a valuable lesson from this in which I instill in my children.
I was 19 years old living alone and putting myself through college. I worked 3 jobs, 2 of were on weekends. In the AM I worked in road maintenance which included vehicle maintenance as well. The second job was at a gas station.

A customer came in the gas station and asked if we had diesel fuel, we did not but the truck stop 3 miles up the road did. He looked tired and asked me; which direction? I saw him leave and started to walk. I asked my manager if I could take my break and give the guy a ride. I had an old pontiac grand am but worked well enough to get by. I caught up with the man and he accepted the ride.

We got his fuel and gave him a ride 13 miles back to his "new to him" truck on the interstate! He was from Indiana and we were  in the Poconos (PA).  His truck was full of kids and one worried wife/mother. I stayed there to see if his truck would start and it did not. Now, because I ran out of fuel in my first jobs backhoe before I knew he had to bleed the lines. I found his bleeder, and low in behold, his truck started right up. WE shook hands and back to work I went.

My twin lived with me at the time and he has to take insulin.  I got home, woke up and found out he broke the bottle. Without insurance It was just over $100 for a new bottle.

We scrambled looking for money. I eventually thought to see if I had any money in my glove box and that's when I found the $100 sitting on my passenger car seat. I felt like it was a miracle but the note said THANK YOU for the "miracle"! This changed my life.

My point is this... if a fellow needs to be here to help put food on the table for his family just say what it is and maybe WE Shaver owners can throw him some leads.

Yes, it's that obvious now

Peace to all
I am still in Aw with the amount of warmth my "new" Shaver is producing.

THANKS AGAIN
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 18, 2010, 06:58:05 PM
 When I install into an attic unit I put a tee on the return coming out of the coil. Off of the tee run a foot or two of pipe up so it is the highest point in the system. At the top of this put a snifter valve. Any air that gets into the system will collect into the pipe and every once and awhile you can bleed it off.
 One thing to watch is air locking in coils installed into attics or other units that are much higher than the stove. You can actually air lock one side of the coil while the other has water flow through it. This happened to me recently on an attic job. I installed a 20x20 coil in a 2 1/2 ton heat pump but was only getting lukewarm air out of the vents. I found that about half of the heat exchanger was hot and the other half was still cold. After installing a larger pump and bleeding air for a while I was able to get it working properly.
 Good luck and glad to hear its working better for you.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 18, 2010, 08:16:05 PM
Very cool story! It's funny how things work like that.



What Yoder said would probably be best for the attic install.


I have a ball valve on my return line right before it enters the water jacket.   I did the open and close thing to get air out of my lines.

With the air handler in the attic, Yoder's Tee fix seems to be the ticket for your set up.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 19, 2010, 06:40:35 AM
I have a question,I have my ranco set at 165 deg,kicks on at 160 but since I sealed the dhw lid my temps have creeped into the 180s where it used to go to about 172deg,could this be caused by the  sealing off of that steam the highest Ive caught it is 182.Ive thought about droppig my water temp 5 or 10 deg but it seems to working really well.Oh and my water usage has gone to nil since I sealed that lid. :thumbup:

One more thing when my fan kicks on in the house it will run for 1/2 hr or longer,I have a cheap sliding thermostat(a digital is coming soon) thats really hard to regulate,my fan kicks on at 67 and off at 72,will a digital tstat help with my fan cycle times.Thanks in advance and I hope eveyone has a blessed christmas and a happy new year! 
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 19, 2010, 08:34:26 AM
My Ranco comes on at 145* and off at 150*.   I noticed it creeped a little past that to maybe 155*. Then again I don't look at it very often.

Is it possible you are stiil getting air into the firebox somewhere?


As for the indoor thermostat, I also have a cheap slider.  My blower runs for about 8-10 minutes but it cycles on and off very often.  I'm not sure of the differential setting but it must be only 1*-3* because it cycles on/off constantly.  Even when I look at the little thermometer(cheap/hard to read) on the thermostat, I don't even see a differnce when the blower cycles on/off.  So it must have a pretty tight differential setting.

It could be that your differential is big enough to require the blower to run longer to make up the temp difference.  Maybe your digital will solve that if you can adjust the differential.


This is just my guess as to what it could be.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 19, 2010, 09:05:00 AM
Greetings Windwalker,after I did my blower mod I noticed that with that intense fire smoke was wiffing out from round the firebox door now it only does this when the blower is running,I really dont want to mess with the seal right now if thats the cause we're gonna have single digits here tommorrow,and its been below norm for more than a month.This unit is pretty much what I expected,but to be honest I thought I would be burnig more wood than I have been.As frigid as its been I been load it every 12 hrs,which I think is pretty darn good,I thought with the blower mod I would use more wood but that doesnt seem to be the case,Im guessing but since oct 1 Ive used bout 2 cords cherry and loucst.(Im pretty sure I spelled that wrong)
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 19, 2010, 09:19:00 AM
Actually if you think about it, most people are running their OWB at 180* anyway.  So if your temp does creep that high, you'll still be OK.

I think the blower mod recovers the water temp quicker and that helps save wood.  Before I did the mod, my blower was running constantly trying to recover the water temp.  That led to more wood being burnt.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 19, 2010, 09:31:54 AM
Bingo on the water temps sometimes I would see my temps slip into the 130s and my blower would run constantly,Im noticing a lot  warmer temps in the house now that my water stays at a constant temp,and no more dripping creasote mess.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: gandgracing on December 19, 2010, 12:14:41 PM
My furnace is 70 feet away. The lines are buried 4 feet down and placed in the bubble wrap 4 inch corrugated pipe. My house is a 2000 square foot ranch. The house is 2 years old with 2 x 6 walls with sprayed in insulation  The boiler feeds a hx. When the furnace is fed constantly it has no problem maintaining 70 degrees in below freezing weather. My problem is that I can't possible keep up with it's demand. I just tried to put a dampner in the smoke stack. I hope this helps? Any thoughts? Other thanthe dampner in smoke stack, what else should I do? Forgive me for not having a lot of knowledge on this. I do realize that this might be one of those trial and error projects in which I was told it be.

Thanks for all your help.
I am just a man trying to keep his 3 kids warm!

Glad things are working better for you.  Just wandering if you removed the damper in the stack?  I tried that a couple years ago and it didnt work after I did the blower mod.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: yoderheating on December 19, 2010, 05:24:08 PM
 It seems that sometimes running hotter water temps will help with creosote or sweating problems.
 If your temps don't get above 190 or 200 I wouldn't recommend trying to fix it until you can shut it down in the spring. Trying to seal a door can be a mess while its running. I have customers running furnaces as high as 190 so what you describe should be no problem at all.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 20, 2010, 07:44:33 AM
I wouldn't run the water any higher than you need too. Simply just wasting wood .I'm running water at 146* and off at 148*. You might want to try a programable thermostat to lower temp at night and while your away. Switching pumps to run on demand I believe is a big help. If the door is leaking try a shim and make sure its clean and no junk is in the track. Try a little silicone around the edges too.You should be able to seal it up without replacing it.

I say this because last year I was burning locust ,oak cherry and only making  it 12 hours or so .Always worring a little that it wouldn't be ok after a 12hour shift. This year i can go way over 24 hours between fills and i  haven't used a stick of locust yet. It s been in the high teens and low 20's at night here. Burning 90% pine and a little maple. Keep playing with it there might be more for you.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on December 20, 2010, 08:41:06 AM
Wow 24 hrs,that would be nice my tstat in the house is on at 67 and off at 72,this is about as cold as it gets around here  bout 10 in the morn and mid 20s in the day this morn I threw a big round and three splits of cherry on a good bed of coals now I wont see it again til 7pm but I should come home to bed of coals that if I pulled everything in I could prob get another 4hrs out of,now on my off days I tend the fire several times in a day and dont add wood til I absolutely have too,but as of right now I dont think I could do better than bout 16hrs.I gone thru bout 2-3 cords of cherry and elm havent got into the locust yet either.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 20, 2010, 11:57:53 AM
I would keep trying to make improvements. There's probably more you could do to extend your burn time.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: gandgracing on December 22, 2010, 06:57:13 AM
I tried lowering my temp in the house with a programmable thermostat at night but when morning comes around it takes alot of heat from the stove when the house tries to get back to the setpoint for the day.  Seems letting it stay at the set temp works better for me.  Russ,  as far as going way over 24 hrs. burn times in teen weather using pine... you should list all your mods cause I cant even see how that is possible.  I could go 24-26 hrs in 30* weather using good hardwood.  Now its 15*-25* and 12 hrs its about time to fill and this is with the 250 model and its inside.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on December 22, 2010, 09:40:44 AM
Hey Briguy!


I was thinking, you may be able to save yourself some trouble.  Instead of drilling a hole in your water jacket, maybe you could drill one in a flat piece of metal.  The metal would be the size of that piece of cork gasket you used to cover that 1 1/2" hole.

Just replace the gasket with the metal (with hole drilled) and slide the drywell in there.


Just a thought!
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 22, 2010, 10:55:03 AM
I was able to remove a piece of silicone on the corner of the hot water plate and slide in the copper pipe for the ranco probe. Its on a angle but works fine .
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 22, 2010, 11:12:13 AM
I tried lowering my temp in the house with a programmable thermostat at night but when morning comes around it takes alot of heat from the stove when the house tries to get back to the setpoint for the day.  Seems letting it stay at the set temp works better for me.  Russ,  as far as going way over 24 hrs. burn times in teen weather using pine... you should list all your mods cause I cant even see how that is possible.  I could go 24-26 hrs in 30* weather using good hardwood.  Now its 15*-25* and 12 hrs its about time to fill and this is with the 250 model and its inside.

 If i get up at night its 67* . Thats what its set for. it only takes 15 minutes to climb back up to 73* . My house is a small ranch w/   finished basement .(2400 sq total). Ok the longest I've let it go without checking it was 26 hours . That was due to having to go to work. I did  alot of things to help  out but not sure what was the biggest improvement.

 Put stove inside garage .out of wind /rain
Wood is inside now/dry
 chiminey cap/ stack extension(tripplewall stainless left over from shop wood stove)
 flapper /solenoid mod (last year )
 Ranco at boiler
 Ranco at shop
 re -siliconed the door/added shim too
 Changed shop too run on demand like house. ( This I think is what made the difference for me. )
 Overflow tube mod
 Sealed up air leaks around blower flange/flapper door
 sealed off vent slots on blower motor
 Insulalated all pipes /roof has packed bat insulation
 
Just want to add that when the heater comes on in the house i dont have a big blast of cold air. I guess residual heat is in there. We dont even notice it .
 
 
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: gandgracing on December 22, 2010, 04:31:56 PM
So your pumps only turn on when the house or shop call for heat?  Also did you just silicone the vents shut on the fan?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on December 23, 2010, 05:40:49 AM
Yes ,Pumps on only when something is calling for heat. 4 pumps,  house ,shop,hot water in both.  For the vents on the blower i just used electrical tape. Still not sure if I'm hurting the blower by doing that . Might overheat ? There are still holes in the end of it that i left open.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 05, 2011, 12:29:05 PM
I have a couple questions regarding my 165,since I sealed my dhw plate my water usage has gone to bout nil,which is a good thing but when I do add it wants to overflow around the plate where the copper lines come thru I left those open,just covered with insulation.I watched the other day as the water got back to temp just before the blower kicked off it started overflowing,I have a piece of curved rubbber hose coming off the overflow pipe I just removed it and let it flow there til the level was down enogh to put the hose back on.Also I noticed steam out the overflow,is that the norm?It doesnt steam all the time,could it just be a hot spot,I noticed it only in the morn after an all night burn,I have my ranko set at 160 off at 163 itll creep to the mid 170s though.And one more ? regarding my indoor tstat,when my fan kicks on itll run for 30 min or longer,it kicks on at 67 and off at 71 Id like to have a tighter swing like 2 deg,but I cant with the cheap slider.I guess what Im asking is should the fan cycle off and on continually or is that long of a cycle bad for the fan?Thanks   
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on January 05, 2011, 04:48:12 PM
The staem out the over flow is normal but it becomes a problem if it steams lots and you have to keep adding water.

When you had that curved rubber hose, it allowed you to put in more water until it got deep enough to flow out the DHW cover plate.

If you find it is steaming away too much water, I would just put the rubber hose back on but not fill as full as you had it before.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on January 05, 2011, 07:00:57 PM
I dont think the long cycle will hurt the fan at all. You might want to consider a digital thermostat. They were on   sale at Home Depot for $6.00 on closeout . This will tighten up your temp swing.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 06, 2011, 05:46:08 AM
Can you buy a 2 wire non programmable tstat?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on January 07, 2011, 06:25:04 AM
Here's the one i used.Bought it at home depot for around $25.00.  I had air conditiong so i just had to shut the  220v breaker off so the outside unit would'nt run. Works fine . You could install a switch to do the same. Why wouldn't you want to use a programable thermostat ? Saves wood . Still easy to install.

 (http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e81/scag52/stat-1.jpg)
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 14, 2011, 06:35:39 AM
Hey Russ,sorry for not replying sooner,right now my pumps run 24/7 woulnt that cause them to run on demand?Also has anyone noticed any warpage on the inner plate behind the firebox door since doing the blower mod?When the blower kicks on the intensity of the flame is concentrated on the bottom of that plate and I just noticed that its warping dont think this is a big deal,but I thinking of covering 1/3 to half of the grate to direct the flame to the center of the firebox anyone have any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on January 14, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
No the digital stat will not turn off your pump .It will just turn on the blower for your furnace. You can let your pumps run if you want.

That piece of metal warped on mine too. Not a problem .I like the fire up front . Seems like the fire has to stay inside a little longer that way. Most people dont even load the back of the stove for this reason.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 14, 2011, 09:57:58 AM
Can I jump off my existing tstat like I did with this sllder tstat?
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on January 14, 2011, 07:29:45 PM
Yep,   Same way. I had to shut off the breaker for the a/c unit. 
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 15, 2011, 06:02:51 AM
Thanks Russ
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Windwalker7 on January 15, 2011, 08:57:40 PM
My inner door is warped also.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: PURPLEBOWYER on January 20, 2011, 03:12:24 PM
I wonder if the warpage would have happened even without the blower mod?Doesnt seem to be a problem.This spring when I build my leanto woodshed and incorporate it over my stove Ill have to extend my stack,prob about 4' has anyone just slipped a piece of stove pipe over the existing stack since I have no more wet creasote this shouldnt cause any problems.....right?Probably should have started another thread for this ? cause I dont hate my shaver,but I do need help,at least thats what she says.   
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: willieG on January 20, 2011, 04:43:05 PM
if you extend your stack i am going to guess you will have some creosete and you should extend your stack by slipping a pipe inside your existing stack (with a ring outside to prevent the extension from continuing to slide down farther than you want it too ((or having the exact size welded on))) this way any creosete that does appear will not get out of the chimney and make a mess of your roof or OWB.

i would suggest also insulating if you can.
Title: Re: HELP! I hate my SHAVER!
Post by: Russ Brumit on January 21, 2011, 08:49:16 AM
You can get an adapter from Shaver that slips on over top your pipe and has stops welded in to keep it from sliding down. Thats what i used . I had some triple wall stainless pipe left over from my wood stove and had to get another adapter to use it . It works well and no real creosote drip to worry about. Can get you a pic if needed.