Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: johnmn on March 09, 2019, 05:51:57 AM
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I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the plumbing section. Thought it might get more traffic here.
Anyway, first year on my wf 4000 I have 50' of underground with a 5' rise and an additional 50' of pipe ran through garage and crawl space. Through a filter, heat exchange in furnace then plate exchanger for domestic hot water and back to the furnace. Running a taco 011 pump through 1" pex. Question/problem is first pump lasted 5 months, second pump was locked up yesterday only after 1 month! I got it going again and seems to be working fine but for how long? Yes pump motor is horizontal and my filter is 90% clean. My dealer is worthless as far as help goes.
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Oh I took the first pump apart and inside was clean as a whistle. No scale, rust nothing.....
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Where is the pump located?
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Back of boiler, inside the access door
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Is the pump on the bottom supply port?
Is the pump fairly quiet or does it make a lot of churning sounds?
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It's on the bottom supply port, it makes some churning sounds yes.
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If you slowly close the return valve, does it quiet down before the valve is half closed? If so, you might need a smaller pump. If you get a new pump, I would go with a Grundfos 26-99 3 speed.
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Didn't really seem to change, but yes I agree this pump seems huge compared to the boiler at my last house.
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No idea if these issues go hand in hand or now but I also have burned a butt load of wood this winter. I have the 5 wrap underground lines. And house has new windows and doors and is well insulated. 3 times the wood of my old house with a 50% increase in sq. Ft.
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If it didn't get a lot quieter then that probably isn't the problem. If is was cavitating, closing the return valve partially should have stopped it.
I would just try a different brand of pump.
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Here is what the local hardware store has for pumps
15-58 and a 26-64
B51R and a 106-89
Not familiar with the last two
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The 26-64 is probably a pretty good size.
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Where are you located? Seeing as there is MN in your name and you've got a crappy dealer from a 4000 I'm guessing it's the guy in Onamia? How big is the house and have you measured the round trip temp drop of the underground lines with no heat call? I suspect groundwater infiltration may be part of the high wood consumption issue seeing as you've got 5 wrap. Also, the domestic water exchanger should be before the forced air exchanger as DHW should be priority but that won't have any bearing on the pump issue. The 011 is a pretty big pump for only 50ft of 1" but that shouldn't be causing issues either if it's not cavitating which it shouldn't be with only that much head. I'd be interested to see a picture of how the pump is mounted. If you're not too far away I could check it out too, I carry Grundfos 15-58 and 26-99 on the truck at a better price you can get them from the store
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I agree with wreckitralph, I’d be getting a set of gauges at the back of the boiler and measuring your round trip loss with no call for heat in the house.
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And food for thought, the tacos don’t hold up well to open systems. Grufundos or bell gosset have a much better track record.
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Agree with Honda, I much prefer the B&G, Grundfos.
Sounds oversized to me, or air trapped somewhere choking flow. Wood consumption on a different house, different winter is a bit of a guess.
With the flat plate first in line you could get by with a 15-58 I'd guess. Low temp return water will not hurt that stove. The return mixes with the largest volume of water above the firebox.
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Where are you located? Seeing as there is MN in your name and you've got a crappy dealer from a 4000 I'm guessing it's the guy in Onamia? How big is the house and have you measured the round trip temp drop of the underground lines with no heat call? I suspect groundwater infiltration may be part of the high wood consumption issue seeing as you've got 5 wrap. Also, the domestic water exchanger should be before the forced air exchanger as DHW should be priority but that won't have any bearing on the pump issue. The 011 is a pretty big pump for only 50ft of 1" but that shouldn't be causing issues either if it's not cavitating which it shouldn't be with only that much head. I'd be interested to see a picture of how the pump is mounted. If you're not too far away I could check it out too, I carry Grundfos 15-58 and 26-99 on the truck at a better price you can get them from the store
Yea I bought it from him, he did call me back and talked a bit.
I got the 011 going and have a new one sitting here but don't really want it. I did just buy a 15-58 I'm gonna try this winter.
Can I ask why it matters if the DHW plate is first?
I feel like I something was going on this winter and hope the pump was just too big. I wouldn't mind talking to someone about my system.
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I am also going to dig up my lines and redo them. I had a 2 ft wide path of melted snow all winter! And ended burning roughly 20 cord or wood! Any suggestions on new lines? I'd like to do this just once.
I had an aqua-therm at my old house for 9 years and only replaced a temp/pressure gauge. So my my new stove experience is piss poor.
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Putting the flat plate first in the loop prevents fluctuating domestic water temps when the heat kicks on and off. You won't notice air temps going up and down but you will with the water.
I don't like that you are having a bad experience. I'd like to see some pictures of the piping.
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Eldon hit the nail on the head with the DHW explanation above. As for the lines, they are garbage and resulted in far more wood burned than was necessary. I would recommend either Rehau Insulpex or Central Boiler Thermopex in 1" to replace them with, any CB dealer will carry the Thermopex or I can get Rehau. As for the pump, it was not "too big". There was another issue causing the trouble
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As for the pump, it was not "too big". There was another issue causing the trouble
Agreed, just burn more energy if its too large. Now if it was like obscenely too large I suppose the added load on it fighting small line could cause it to run hotter.
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Just an update, I installed a 15-58 pump and new thermo pex lines last fall. I never had 1 pump issue and no more sounds of cavitation. I ran the pump on high all winter, let's hope it'll last year's. As for the wood consumption of say I burned 12 -14 cord. Ill have seasoned wood for this winter so I'm curious to see what my consumption will be. Thanks all!
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Glad it's working better for you!
one lesson here, If you don't need a monster pump don't use it. :)