Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: Curado74 on November 05, 2014, 05:43:59 AM
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I know this has been covered again and again but I would like someone to tell me this is ok. I have a new 5000 been running a week. Clear drip coming out front of ash tray to the tune of about a gallon a day. Burning junk rotten wood at this point just to get rid of it. Good oak to follow in a few weeks. Anything to worry about with this steady drip?
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A drip means an air leak! This can cause more creosote, condensation, premature corrosion and overheating, I would suggest tightening up the door seals ASAP.
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Can you give me a quick tutorial on how to tighten the door? If that is the problem then is the drip condensation? The boiler seems to be running fine. not overheating and doing a great job of heating the house.
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All you need to do is take a wrench that fits the nut on the roller where the door latches. Loosen it up and then move the bolt towards the boiler. Don't move the bolt very much, maybe an 1/8" max and then tighten the nut back down. You will have to repeat this on both sides.
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Some drippage is to be expected. Not quite the amount you describe. Mr. AirForcePOL is right, loosen the nuts and tighten to make the closure tighter.
What's happening is condensation is forming on the doors to the stove and the ash pan. These are the coldest parts of the stove. Again, in these mild temps, some moisture in your ash pan right up against the door is normal. Keep your operating temps up around 185 with a max of 15 swing and this will reduce the amount of moisture.
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thanks guys. I have been running 175 with a 5 degree swing. I will increase to 185 and open the swing to 10-15. from what I understand that may help burn off the creosote. I have noticed a lot at the door (black goo). if I tighten that door would I expect the drip to stop within a 12 hour burn, or do you expect it will take another day or so to show improvement?
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If it has been leaking for a while you should at least clean the door gasket before adjusting it, country boy and Air Force is it a 1 inch gasket, perhaps try the silicone coated gaskets that we get, they do help a lot!
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thanks guys. I have been running 175 with a 5 degree swing. I will increase to 185 and open the swing to 10-15. from what I understand that may help burn off the creosote. I have noticed a lot at the door (black goo). if I tighten that door would I expect the drip to stop within a 12 hour burn, or do you expect it will take another day or so to show improvement?
Yeah, the 15 swing will really help with the condensation. You may bump to 10 first and make sure your coal bed holds. Then 12, then 15. I'd say your drip will dry up when you get a good hot burn. Slim, I don't know how big our gasket is. I'm in season two and I've had plenty of drip off in my gasket. It seems to be holding fine. I might replace it next year.
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Just wondering if you have adjusted your door yet? If so, did it solve the problem?
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Dealer said he adjusted it but I have not seen much change. Temps are awfull cold and he said once that happens it will stop. Still dripping just freezing puddle now. I am burning some rotten wood though. Just have to get rid of it. Could that be the issue. Going to change to some better wood this weekend to test that theory.
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Moisture content does matter. But, I don't think you'll completely get rid of it. I always had a small black sno-cone under my ash pan last year.
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Pulled ash pan tonight and there was a lot of moisture around it. Literally ran out when I pulled it. Got about a gallon of drip today. Do I just leave a bucket under the door forever? Going to call dealer next week as I want to give it 4/5 days to continue. I feel I'm a pain in the dealers rear complaining but I sure hope I don't deal with this long. Have a friend that bought same model at same time as me and has no issue. He is burning better(yet greener) wood
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I always have some black crap under my stove. Every conventional stove I've seen has had some.
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Is your water level holding up in your stove? Mine drips some but man that sounds like a lot of moisture!
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I've seen furnaces drip so much I was convinced it was leaking but it wasn't. Seems two things have contributed to the bad cases I've seen, one is the furnaces were oversized and idled a lot. Colder weather helps a lot because it causes the heat demand to rise and the furnace to cycle more often. Secondly is the wood that is burned. I bet if you tried some seasoned hardwood that had been stored in a wood shed the problem would almost go away.
The worst one I have ever seen was a guy burning green river birch, there was steady drip coming out of the ash pan. I actually switched out that furnace thinking there was an issue with the furnace but the second one did the same thing. Then we hooked up a second building to the furnace and the problem almost went away.
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Have a mf5000 and heating 3500 sq foot house. I have the diff at 12 degrees. Should I tighten the diff up to 5 so it fires more often. Now that it is cold it has been calling for more heat, but still have issue.. Going to put dry wood in and see. If fixes problem then will mix wood until out of pithy wood. Will that pithy wood carry more water content?
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Yes, pithy or punky wood will absorb more water than there areBTU's left in the wood
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switched to seasoned wood the past 4 days. drip has decreased some, but still more then I thought I would have (down to 1/2 gallon a day). has been teens at night and 20-30's in the days. had an ice dagger hanging off my ash pan handle last night that was 10-12 inches long. dripped from the door down on the ash handle and froze. going to move the wood to the front of the stove and seeing if that makes a difference. I have been putting wood to the back. where do you all burn your wood (front or back?).
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I put mine in a triangle stack as you are looking into the stove. The base is the entire length from front to back. I've noticed that the flame intensity moves from back to front as the ash pan fills up. Don't know why, it just does.
I am in season 2 with my HM. I've said it before, I don't think you're going to get rid of this drip. The ash pan sticks out the front of the stove and is by far the coldest part of your stove. It is going to cause condensation. I have an ice mound or black puddle under my ash pan all winter. I don't see what the bid deal is. If you are trying to keep your pad "clean", forget about it. At the end of the season, you'll have ash dust, bark, wood chips, soot, the front of your stove will be black and the stickers won't be recognizable. Trust me, I am an obsessive perfectionist and I too was upset of this black water "messing up" the appearance of my stove. I'm over it. It's a part of it. Burning wood is dirty.
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countryboyJohn,
I really don't care if there is a drip or if I have dirty concrete. I just wanted to make sure that this is normal and I"m not letting something go that could have any negative effect on the longevity of the stove. I appreciate all the information and education. as long as I know it is working properly then I'm happy. the stove is a monster and it is making the wife happy. at the end of the day isn't that all that matters :)
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I'm in my first year with my Heatmaster as well, and my ash pan also leaks a bit. I have a small ice mound below my door. I'm also unsure where is the best location to put wood in my stove, but I can say that the last few nights I've been filling it to the brim. These stoves really hold a lot of wood when you fill them. I need to cut a lot more wood.
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Was burning junk wood with warmer temps, set 2 gal pail under ash door was getting gal of black water per week, now that temps dropped 11 degrees this am and burning good seasoned wood not a drop in this last week stove burning hotter and better wood eliminated drip problem for me
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countryboyJohn,
I really don't care if there is a drip or if I have dirty concrete. I just wanted to make sure that this is normal and I"m not letting something go that could have any negative effect on the longevity of the stove. I appreciate all the information and education. as long as I know it is working properly then I'm happy. the stove is a monster and it is making the wife happy. at the end of the day isn't that all that matters :)
Sounds good! It just seemed like there were a lot of guys complaining about it. Your stove is fine! Happy burning!
Mr. justinb, I figure our stove can hold half a truckload in one filling when filled completely! They are massive! When you fill to the brim, does that take you to 12 hours or longer? I have 14 chords and 3/4 ton if coal ready to go!
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I loaded it at 8pm, and checked on it at 7am. Level of wood was below the door. I definitely could've gotten a few more hours out of it, but I loaded it back up again before I went to work. I didn't know what to expect with the 7 degree temp and 20 mph winds last night. I don't know what I'm going to do when I start heating my 4 car garage. Lots more wood.....
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Justin, I'm with you on that! I'm burning 15% moisture locust right now. I haven't hooked my garage up to mine yet but I'm wondering if I'll achieve any 12 hour burns when I do. My house is 1500 sq ft and I'm working on finishing up a 420 sq ft addition. My garage is 1600 sqft. It's going to be pushing it! I'm only getting around 10 hour burns with nearly a plum full load. However, I do have two walls that aren't insulated and I'm losing a lot of heat out of my makeshift osb door that goes into the new room and it's located in the same room as my thermostat. I'm sure that doesn't help.
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Justin, you are going to go through a TON of wood! I'm at 3,000 sft of terrible insulation, DHW, and a hot tub. I have my garage heater done, but I flipped the switch and it didn't run. HVAC guy coming out soon. When the temps are below freezing all day, I'll get 12 hours on 3/4 load of cherry. I'm sure I could get by with closer to 1/2 a load when I get to burning my hedge!
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If you hit it right it should drip.
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Will that pithy wood carry more water content?
Don't know how large your firebox is, but if you load 100 pounds of wood at 25% moisture content, you are putting 3 gallons of water in the firebox. If you load 100 pounds of wood at 35% moisture, there will be 4 gallons of water in the firebox. If any part of the boiler is less than 135 degrees, there will be condensation on the cool surface. While the stove is idling, the moisture is not being forced out the stack and is clinging to the cool surface.
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homerglide,
that makes sense. I was using better wood in the past two weeks when it was much colder and the drip decreased but did not stop. less then a cup a day. got warmer this past week and I'm back into some bad wood and the drip has increased greatly. So, lesson is thus................1. colder temps will burn more wood and decrease drip. 2. seasoned wood will decrease drip 3. some kind of drip is expected unless conditions and wood are perfect. Like everyone on this forum has said again and again "there is a learning curve" with the OWB.
positive note.........i'm almost through with the junky old wood and have 10 cord of seasoned oak waiting. just could not bring myself to throw out wood no matter its condition.
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Is your stove sitting level? Could it be that all of your moisture is condesing and then running to the front of the stove?
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the stove is not "bubble level". I mean that when water overflows out the top it will always roll down the left side. I assume that the stove is pitched fwd ever so slightly, but to say it is uneven enough to cause this issue is unrealistic. with that thought though wouldn't I want it slightly off level to ALLOW the water to drain out the front if it was being produced. I don't want any water in the fire box. at least dripping out is getting it OUT. right?
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I have a MF5000E and it is doing the same thing. 185 set temp and 10 degree differential. I noticed that the design of the ash door has a flaw. The gasket is about 1/2 inch wide but the bottom of the pan rests against the lip that sticks out to seal the door. The lip forces the gasket down as it is so close to the edge of the gasket and it cannot seal. There needs to be a spacer under the pan that allows the lip to seal against the center (or close) of the gasket. Thinking about a spacer to help lift the ash door so the lip contacts better and doesn't allow cold air in to condense.
We are burning 2 year old cherry and oak and hard maple that is pretty dry. Heating a brick 2400 sq ft ranch house and going to hook up a 2-1/2 car garage soon. Building a 30 x 40 garage this year to heat also. Getting 12 hour burns out of 5-7 chunks of wood at 20-40 degree outside temps. Stove works awesome however hate the mess. Also notice that the ashes are really 1/4" chunks of charcoal not ash. Can't complain about the performance of the stove or the quality of the build...just symptoms that don't make sense. Our electric bill has gone from $650/month to $150. And then the house was only 64 degrees. Love my stove
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Mr. Suzukidad, how often do you empty your ash pan? If you empty your ash pan less often, those chunks of charcoal will burn up into powder.
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I empty it once a week. It is usually full. I will try letting it go longer. Thanks
Vince
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Ok, one last observation for you and then I'm done complaining. I noticed this week that when the blower is on there is some smoke coming out of the top left corner of the front door. None when idle. Is that showing an air leak and causing the moisture.? I'm done. Thanks for putting up with all the questions.
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No. When the fan is running, the firebox is essentially pressurized. Normal atmosphere pressure is far less than what the fan creates. Air/smoke can be forced out, but it isn't enough for air to leak in.
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This is one of those times CountryBoyJohn that I will respectfully disagree with you. If air is leaking out of the door, it can and will leak in, can the doors be adjusted to stop the air or could silicone be used on top of the gasket to seal it up?
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No problem Mr. Slim. I've had my stove for 2 years. There are periods of time, from the very begging when all the ropes were new, that when the smoke level is at its peak after a fresh load of wood when the fire gets roaring, that I do have smoke wisps leak from the door. This has never caused any overheating issues with my stove. My door is tight and my ropes are good. Your PM stove door design, and others, my prevent this 100%, which would be great. But, on the HM stoves, some smoke wisping out of the door under a heavy smoke load, I would say, is considered "normal."
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Tried emptying the ashes every 2 weeks. There is far less condensation in the ash tray and the coals are turning to a finer ash. Usually put 7 pieces of wood in to get through 12 hours and now only need 5. Stove appears to be more efficient when the ash tray is full and coals can build up deeper in the fire box.
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when you empty the ash pan every 2 weeks is the pan initially overflowing with ash? I have waited that long to empty and the tray is usually totally full and overflows when pulling it out. Had to shove back in to pick up extra ash. Does an ash pan completely full hurt the air flow from the fan? Who emptys only when pan is full or do they expect overflow?
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Update:
I adjusted all the rope seals (moved them so that they compressed more against the frame), tightened the door bearings, and empty the ash pan less frequently. Drips all gone!!! Not sure what adjustment made the difference but not sure I care as long as it stays dry!
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when you empty the ash pan every 2 weeks is the pan initially overflowing with ash? I have waited that long to empty and the tray is usually totally full and overflows when pulling it out. Had to shove back in to pick up extra ash. Does an ash pan completely full hurt the air flow from the fan? Who emptys only when pan is full or do they expect overflow?
Yes, when I empty, it is plumb full and I usually push it back in twice to scoop out more ash.I went two weeks last cycle and it was all white powder. Usually I shoot for 9 days.
I don't think it hurts the site flow. If you shine a flashlight up there with the ash pan out, you can see where the air comes out from the back. Occasionally I use a garden hoe to clean out the very back of the ash channel.