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Author Topic: is this legit info or bs?  (Read 8760 times)

victor6deep

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is this legit info or bs?
« on: February 28, 2014, 07:48:31 PM »

You have received a YouTube video! The Truth About Insulated Pipe R Value
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martyinmi

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 08:28:48 PM »

Believe it!
Zach is one of the most honest, intelligent, hard working  people I've ever met.
If and WHEN we get rid of this cold weather and the frost leaves, I'll be burying 100' of his product that I bought last year.
I'll be creating yet another air space by putting his product in another tile.
 
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Scott7m

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 08:29:47 PM »

Believe it!
Zach is one of the most honest, intelligent, hard working  people I've ever met.
If and WHEN we get rid of this cold weather and the frost leaves, I'll be burying 100' of his product that I bought last year.
I'll be creating yet another air space by putting his product in another tile.

It's good stuff,  but I like the way your doing it martyinmi
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victor6deep

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 08:33:02 PM »

I went with the 3 wrap double tiled from zsupply and am very impressed. Just wanted to see what others thought of his product.
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hondaracer2oo4

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 06:55:07 AM »

Most people I don't believe buy the z supply product when they buy the 3 or 5 wrap products. They buy the cheap draintile product with the wrapped pipe system inside. The biggest problem for any manufacturer of supply pipe is water infiltration to the supply system. If water gets in the pipe they are screwed.
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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 08:57:45 AM »

I used z-suppy with double tile and it's working out great so far.
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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 09:52:58 AM »

I have the cheapo 5 wrap stuff from ebay.   So far it seems ok.   Temp loss is about 1 degree, over a distance of 110', and that is what my cheapo, infrared temp gun says. 
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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 10:00:29 AM »

I'll probably go with z-supply 3 wrap when I replace mine. Originally I placed a 4 inch pipe inside a six inch pipe with all the insulation I could wrap around the 4 and still get it to slide inside the 6.

I'll have to dig the corners up to get the 4 inch out of them then use rubber couplers with stainless clamps to reassemble. I'd love to go with the 5 wrap instead but I think trying to get 5 inch tile to slide inside a hundred foot of 6 inch thats already buried could be futile at best.
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victor6deep

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 10:02:57 AM »

I'll probably go with z-supply 3 wrap when I replace mine. Originally I placed a 4 inch pipe inside a six inch pipe with all the insulation I could wrap around the 4 and still get it to slide inside the 6.

I'll have to dig the corners up to get the 4 inch out of them then use rubber couplers with stainless clamps to reassemble. I'd love to go with the 5 wrap instead but I think trying to get 5 inch tile to slide inside a hundred foot of 6 inch thats already buried could be futile at best.

Chinese fingers and a wire pulling machine and some lube.
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mlappin

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 11:24:15 AM »

I'll probably go with z-supply 3 wrap when I replace mine. Originally I placed a 4 inch pipe inside a six inch pipe with all the insulation I could wrap around the 4 and still get it to slide inside the 6.

I'll have to dig the corners up to get the 4 inch out of them then use rubber couplers with stainless clamps to reassemble. I'd love to go with the 5 wrap instead but I think trying to get 5 inch tile to slide inside a hundred foot of 6 inch thats already buried could be futile at best.

Chinese fingers and a wire pulling machine and some lube.

I'd be afraid of pulling something apart in the process.

My thinking is a 3 wrap inside a 4" tile slid inside a 6" piece of sewer pipe will still have a lot of dead air space around it and should perform as well or better than a 5 wrap that is direct buried.
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Sprinter

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 12:03:27 PM »

A 12 degree loss at 5gpm , same pipe just increase flow to 10gpm only shows half a degree loss. The heat loss is still there just hidden by the speed of the fluid. Quality underground pipe has no air space to infiltrate and shows full documentation of test procedures. There is no such thing as bubble wrap that performs or lasts as good or even close to logstor, Urecon, Rehau, Thermopex. If there was you'd see plenty of documentation and test procedures.
As long as the customer knows this and understands a cord or more will be lost to the ground, it's his decision to buy what pipe suits his budget. I've never heard of a quality pipe consumer wishing they used a cheaper pipe instead. In the long run the quality pipe is always cheaper

And yes the info is true about the foil needing a full 6" of dead air space to achieve its R value. The dead air space has all the R , the foil just reflects it. A good read of the actual design and application of foil insulation shows where it works best.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 12:07:33 PM by Sprinter »
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Scott7m

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2014, 12:08:41 PM »

You see the first guy to reply sprinter???

He bought thermopex, it split and failed and became water logged.

He's now wishing he'd went with something else and you see what he's going with, and how he's doing it is top notch!  Probably the best way of doing it

You often claim these standards and tests but a lot of that stuff is purely nothing more than a company paying for a certification and nothing more. 

The heat loss on z supply 5 wrap is .48 per 100ft at 5 GPM

If you think creating a barrier between soaked wet soil or frozen soil in the form of an air space isn't a good idea, then I simply ask you do some research outside that of marketing labels or paid for certifications
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Scott7m

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2014, 12:15:20 PM »

I'm in the middle of getting ready to replace my standard old badger 3 wrap pipe right now, I thought it was failing but upon further inspection it's not but I still want to do the best system I can

I do feel logstor is the toughest material u can drop into a trench and will be fine, but I'm not so sure that taking 5 wrap and pulling it through pvc may be even better.  Even if I did do the logstor it would also be inside of an extra layer of protection with an air space around it.   

The thermal conductivity is what's most important, if you can create a space between the insulation and the pipe itself it is a benefit

If you measure from the edge of pex to edge of tile on logstor it's around 1 inch, distance from edge of pex to tile on z supply 5 wrap is thicker, whether that means even better, I'm not 100% sure, but to encase it there is no doubt it will out per perform any foam pipes I've seen
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ITO

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 12:36:20 PM »

 I used the zsupply 3 wrap for my hot tub, it was only 40 feet but has worked well, I was careful to put it in sand around the pipe.
 My boiler to house run was done ten years ago and I put it in 4" Insul-Seal pipe, http://www.insulseal.com/index.html
 I pulled pex/al/pex inside it and it has worked well for us. I used this product for my well piping also since we had to cross the driveway and the frost can go very deep here. There are (2) 45's that turn up into the bottom of the boiler and the utility room so there was room for electric lines also.
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Sprinter

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Re: is this legit info or bs?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 01:25:01 PM »

You see the first guy to reply sprinter???

He bought thermopex, it split and failed and became water logged.

He's now wishing he'd went with something else and you see what he's going with, and how he's doing it is top notch!  Probably the best way of doing it

You often claim these standards and tests but a lot of that stuff is purely nothing more than a company paying for a certification and nothing more. 

The heat loss on z supply 5 wrap is .48 per 100ft at 5 GPM

If you think creating a barrier between soaked wet soil or frozen soil in the form of an air space isn't a good idea, then I simply ask you do some research outside that of marketing labels or paid for certifications

Oh boy I'd love to see some split thermopex, can't imagine what the bedding looked like if the thermopex casing failed. And no way the pex split. A highly qualified installer can make anything fail.

If you think even for a second that multimillion dollar companies throw out bogus ASTM and test data specs for sales, someone has pulled the wool on you.  Unless Z supply has changed something on their test data it claims a half a degree loss with a 65kbtu load thru 1" pex. Also their testing data is no where to be found or accredited , just a few details in quotes. They also don't mention whether the test data is with PAP or the cheap pex witha .875" ID .  BIG difference in flow velocity. No where do they state a specific pipe, GPM flow and temp loss in the same sentence. Let alone any test conditions.

I'll put up any of the brands I mentioned in a side by side test. I think more research also needs to be done on where and how a reflective radiant barrier will actually work. If there was even a small benefit of using it underground why aren't the big manufacturers using it?   We all KNOW what standing or sitting on a single 1" layer of foam board feels like on the ice, or on my toilet seat in the outhouse in Alaska. Last I checked anything foil isn't being used, and I wonder what happens when that pipe makes a bend and the pex presses the foil against the side of the drain tile. I wonder if it makes a hotspot?

I'm not trying to say Zpipe is junk, just that it's not some miracle pipe that works as good or better than the good pipe. We are all trying to make our customers systems as efficient as possible, so why take the risk, cuz it's not a cheap one if something does go wrong. And who gets left hanging.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 01:33:35 PM by Sprinter »
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