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[kc]

We just had a round of crazy winds here the last couple days which although we didn't lose power some did and it got me thinking about being prepared.   I am close to firing up an Earth 505 which is wired with the whole stove to a single power plug that could easily be plugged into a generator if the lights go out.   But my house furnace is a different story and the fan would also have to run if the power is out.   In my previous house I had re-wired the furnace cutoff switch to a plug and socket much like the Earth stove where I could unplug the furnace from the incoming power line and into a generator.   I remember the ice storm of 2009 (and wind storm of 2010) and being out of power for nearly a week both times and that setup and a generator came in pretty handy.

But when we sold that house and the inspector saw this arrangement he went ballistic and made me put the switch back in.   I even had an electric contractor in later and got much the same response.   I can't remember which one said it but there was a comment something about power "back feeding" to the breaker panel.  While I am not an electrical engineer I am kind of having a hard time understanding that and want to know what you guys think about such an arrangment.  The only way I can see power back feeding into the panel is if the generator was plugged into the socket which was connected to the incoming power from the panel to the furnace.   Of course what I did was unplug the furnace from the incoming power and into an extension cord back to the generator - hence nothing was connected to the incoming power socket at that point.   Am I crazy or are they?   Am I overlooking something obvious or is this one of those cases of a common sense solution doesn't make sense to "professionals".  In short - do you guys see anything wrong with the incoming power on a socket and the furnace on a plug in place of a cutoff switch?   

kc

 

[willieG]

the power provider and the inspector are concerned there is a way for someone (maybe not you) to  figure ..Hey i could just amke an extension cord with 2 male plugs and plug one end into the generator box and the other in to any of the homes boxes and back feed the whole house...would only work untill the draw was more than the generator can provide, but could be done

the idea of a three way switch takes all the worry for the power provider away. the switch is one  way, they are providing power...the switch is the other way, the home owner is provideing power...there is now no way for the two  power supply's to ever be hooked together

[dwneast77]

Many may disagree with my setup, but when my power goes out I first throw the main in the house panel.  I then start my generator which has a double male ended cord.  Plug both ends in.  The wall receptical I plug into is 220v and this feeds into a secondary panel in my greenhouse which then feeds back to the main panel in the house also.  I know my setup and know the proper sequence.  I don't want to put anyone at risk for sure.  Main thing, in my opinion, is take the time and think it through.  Follow the proper steps.  All anyone sees in the greenhouse is a 50A wall receptical.  Not changing anything.  I'd like an automatic setup sometime in the next couple of years, but for now it works.

[kc]

I understand what you guys are saying about the possibility of backfeeding power if the socket approach is mis-used.   I would know not to do it but when I sell the house someday it may not be understood.   I just like simple.   I believe I will go with the plug and socket approach in the short run and look into a 3 way switch long term as I can plan and budget for it.   What I don't want to do is not be prepared when the power goes out and have to scramble to get things to work.   I appreciate the input and perspective...

kc

[dwneast77]

Kc - I hear ya.  I do the same thing with some of my greenhouses.  The power feed to 3 of them is basically nothing more than a glorified extension cord (direct burial wire with female plug end).  That way I can feed those greenhouses off a direct plug-in connection  to a generator.  It's the same thing you are looking to do, really.  Short-term fix, I don't see any problem with you doing what you need to do to get by.  That's how I have to think of things all the time with my business. 

[RSI]

We just had a round of crazy winds here the last couple days which although we didn't lose power some did and it got me thinking about being prepared.   I am close to firing up an Earth 505 which is wired with the whole stove to a single power plug that could easily be plugged into a generator if the lights go out.   But my house furnace is a different story and the fan would also have to run if the power is out.   In my previous house I had re-wired the furnace cutoff switch to a plug and socket much like the Earth stove where I could unplug the furnace from the incoming power line and into a generator.   I remember the ice storm of 2009 (and wind storm of 2010) and being out of power for nearly a week both times and that setup and a generator came in pretty handy.

But when we sold that house and the inspector saw this arrangement he went ballistic and made me put the switch back in.   I even had an electric contractor in later and got much the same response.   I can't remember which one said it but there was a comment something about power "back feeding" to the breaker panel.  While I am not an electrical engineer I am kind of having a hard time understanding that and want to know what you guys think about such an arrangment.  The only way I can see power back feeding into the panel is if the generator was plugged into the socket which was connected to the incoming power from the panel to the furnace.   Of course what I did was unplug the furnace from the incoming power and into an extension cord back to the generator - hence nothing was connected to the incoming power socket at that point.   Am I crazy or are they?   Am I overlooking something obvious or is this one of those cases of a common sense solution doesn't make sense to "professionals".  In short - do you guys see anything wrong with the incoming power on a socket and the furnace on a plug in place of a cutoff switch?   

kc

Did I read it right that you just have a plug on your furnace and you plug it into an outlet? Then to run on the generator you just unplug it and plug into a generator? If so, there is no way it can backfeed the power lines and I don't see anything wrong with it. Unless code requires the furnace to be hardwired I don't see what anyone can complain about.

[dwneast77]

I agree with RSI.  I interpret this the same way.  As long as the plug used has a high enough amp rating what is the problem?!  Power cannot backfeed this way.  I have run furnaces this way myself.

[willieG]

i agree also this would work. i also wonder why the inspector raised a red flag.? here in ontario i believe i was told that a furnace is supposed to be hard wired with a shut off switch near the door to the furnace room. (or the escape route in case of an emergendy)

if your furnace did not come with a flexible cord (like a lamp or toaster) you are by code supposed to use NM cable to hook it to your electrical panel. Also i believe you need a switch near a stairway or door exit from yoru furnace room that can shut the fuel supply to the furnace off in case of emergency. (have read this on another forum)   What you propose to do is likley safe and connecting to both the panel and the generator is not likley to happen, it is still likley, by code, illegal

that being said, there is a lot of safe but not legal things go on in private homes...no electician i know will come on this or any other forum and say it is ok to do

i have done some things i know were not legal by code to do, but when i was done they all passed inspection. (unhooked a service in my old garage..built a new garage, and had to dig up the service and move the underground cable to reach the new garage panel..all this live)

[kc]

RSI - yes my long winded explanation was that I simply converted the cut-off switch on my furnace to a plug and outlet.   To cut power to the furnace I would unplug which also makes for easy generator use.   The more I think about this with the power back-feed situation it is really no different with any other outlet in my house.   If I would by some whim plug in a generator to an outlet using a male-to-male plug then yes I am back feeding power to my panel.   The plug and outlet arrangement on the furnace doesn't reallly change that fact.   I was kind of put out by the inspector over this but that was not the only thing I disagreed with on his assessments but it is the nature of their work to nit-pick and raise red flags...

kc

[RSI]

RSI - yes my long winded explanation was that I simply converted the cut-off switch on my furnace to a plug and outlet.   To cut power to the furnace I would unplug which also makes for easy generator use.   The more I think about this with the power back-feed situation it is really no different with any other outlet in my house.   If I would by some whim plug in a generator to an outlet using a male-to-male plug then yes I am back feeding power to my panel.   The plug and outlet arrangement on the furnace doesn't reallly change that fact.   I was kind of put out by the inspector over this but that was not the only thing I disagreed with on his assessments but it is the nature of their work to nit-pick and raise red flags...

kc

Yeah, it is no different than unplugging something like the refrigerator from the outlet and plugging into the generator.  The only questionable part is if they allow it to be plugged into an outlet instead of hardwired.

[dwneast77]

I wonder if an inspector would still "red flag" it if the recepticle was still wired into an Emergency cut-off switch at the exit door??

[willieG]

in my province i think it would be red flagged if it was wired with extension cord cable. it would be just as easy to buy a three way switch (disconnect) for 20 amps and wire it beside the panel to the fuse for the furnace and wire the generator into the three way disconnect throw it one way, you are on the providers power..throw it the other way and you are on your own power. you then add a small sub panel that runs off the emergency power with a few breakers (that your generator could run) you could pull a few things that you really want to use in an emergency (like a sump pump) from your power providers panel and put them in your own. this is getting more costly but if you are gonna do it anyway why not make it so you can use your generator for some of your comforts as well.

doing what you need to do to get by is ok in my books but if it is not up to code i would be saving my nickles so i could "make it right" in the future