Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Aqua-Therm => Topic started by: jtepn87 on January 28, 2014, 05:46:22 PM

Title: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 28, 2014, 05:46:22 PM
Someone I know has an old Aqua-Therm 140 stove that he wants to get rid of.  The stove is super rusty and will most likely end up at a salvage yard, but he's willing to give it away, and I'm willing to make the 10 min drive to pick it up. Now saying that, can someone give me some info on these stoves and or how to get some of the rust out of the water jacket? I know some about owb's but really nothing about Aqua-Therms.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: racnruss on January 28, 2014, 09:22:46 PM
walk away and save yourself the aggravation.

First of all, its rusty, almost impossible to clean the inside of water jacket with cutting it apart.  That just leads to problems down the road with heat exchangers and pumps.

Second my friend Jeff bought an Aquatherm new, so no rust issues at all.  He built a brand new house very well insulated and built it with the knowledge he was going to put a boiler in.  So, pex under the floors with tile, ect.
Now, look at design of Aquatherm boilers.  Huge firebox with very little water around it and the chimney is right in the middle of the top of the firebox.  Any heat escapes right out the top before it has much opportunity to soak into the metal.  We've actually seen flame coming out of the chimney that was 16 feet tall!

It wore him out trying to keep that thing fed and he finally just gave up on the boiler.  Plus, he is so disgusted that he won't even replace it with another because he felt so burned by the first one.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 28, 2014, 10:57:42 PM
I'm not going to invest too much more than a lil bit of time on it. It's just sitting in the guys shed and he said I could take it for scrap metal if nothing else. So I'm really not losing anything on it. I also know that they don't hold much water but I work at a hardware store,  so used water heaters are abundant. With all that considered I figured its worth a look. At the very worst it ends up at the scrap yard and pays for the fuel to get it.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on January 29, 2014, 06:53:43 AM
What Mr. racnruss is saying, is that if you hook this thing up, it COULD cost you money by clogging up your heat exchanger ($300), busting a pump impellar ($300) and jamming up a plate exchanger ($250.)  Rust and particles going through your pex will put you money behind. 
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 29, 2014, 07:52:21 AM
Oh yeah. Like I said. Im most likely just to haul this thing to the scrap yard, I was just curious to know something about it first.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on January 29, 2014, 11:04:24 AM
Heres the deal on Aqua-Therm..As a owner of one here.. Aqua-Therm is a closed loop OWB..Its has the same psi as any oil boiler does..Because its a closed loop system there is no need for heat exchangers unless you have hot air for a system..Reason why they don't hold a lot water is because its a fast recovery time and less burn time than a boiler thats holds 200+ gallons of water.. Also the fire chamber is 409 stainless steel..

Racnruss Sorry to hear about your buddy's experience ..Sounds like the OWB world isn't for him.. I don't get your point of the design of the boiler..And as far as a flame coming out of the stack..You want that to happen!! Cleans your stack out! There are pics that members posted flames  coming out of there stack.

 jtepn87 any chance of postings pics?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: racnruss on January 29, 2014, 03:17:49 PM
somebody help me here.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on January 29, 2014, 04:52:52 PM
I already tried Mr. racnruss!  :bash:
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: willieG on January 29, 2014, 04:56:52 PM
What Mr. racnruss is saying, is that if you hook this thing up, it COULD cost you money by clogging up your heat exchanger ($300), busting a pump impellar ($300) and jamming up a plate exchanger ($250.)  Rust and particles going through your pex will put you money behind.

in line filter?  my diesel tractor, car, truck, hydraulic lines, hot air duct in the furnace all have a filter...and my home made OWB does too..doesnt yours..if not ,perhaps you are gambling too?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 29, 2014, 09:10:14 PM
Next time I go over there to take a look on how to get it out of his shed, I'll snap a couple pics. I truely have no idea about rust in the water jacket, but as long as it's just been sitting, I can only imagine.  Then I really don't have the money to pour into something that morethan likely won't work. MattyNH; are Aqua-Therms morr set up for radient heat then? I'm a rookie to all things OWB.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on January 30, 2014, 01:57:46 PM
jtepn87,  The Aqua-therm's can be hooked up to anything..So if you were to hook it up to radiant heat..You would have a direct hook up or a direct hook up through the oil boiler ..There's no need to heat exchanger's since Aqua-therm's are a closed loop system( just like the oil boiler a closed loop system) Like I said in the other post your would need a heat exchanger for forced hot air heat.

Most Owb's are a open system..So they are vented to the atmosphere Thats why you would need heat exchangers..Yes you can do a direct hook up with a "open system" But now your exposing everything to the atmosphere..Really not recommended 
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 30, 2014, 03:20:11 PM
I have a propane forced air furnace now, and would like to hook my DHW up with whatever OWB I end up with; so heat exchangers will be needed. Would I need extra holding tanks with the Aqua-Therm or just the expansion tank for pressure? WillieG, what kind of filter do you have hooked up to your owb? I can't seem to find anything for hot water.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: willieG on January 30, 2014, 04:06:19 PM
i have a shelco filter that uses a string wound filter with a steel core and is good up to 180 degrees and at 20 microns adds about 2psi at 10 gpm (or about 5 feet of head)
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on January 30, 2014, 07:09:27 PM
I have a propane forced air furnace now, and would like to hook my DHW up with whatever OWB I end up with; so heat exchangers will be needed. Would I need extra holding tanks with the Aqua-Therm or just the expansion tank for pressure? WillieG, what kind of filter do you have hooked up to your owb? I can't seem to find anything for hot water.
No extra holding tanks are needed..All what you need is what is stock on the boiler itself..Expansion tank and everything is on the boiler..
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 30, 2014, 07:34:04 PM
This one currently has a 2gal expansion tank plumbed to it. I'll have to take pics when I get the chance. It's 20+ years old and the belly of it is almost on the ground below it. Were Aqua-Therms made with stainless back then? This thing has a ton of rust on the outside, and in the firebox. I do like the plate right below the flu to keep heat from just running out. I also like the tubes in the firebox that appear to distribute air evenly for a complete burn. It's just the amount of rust that scares me.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 30, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
Jtepn87. If you are planning to go with an OWB anyway, why not get it, throw a filter in line with it and if it fails and isn't fixable well oh well! I know a lot of people on here wouldn't touch that thing with a ten foot pole but its FREE! Its not going to hurt anything if you put a filter on the system. It could last you a year or 10 years. Who knows. I'd run it!
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 30, 2014, 10:22:59 PM
It's probably going to need new pumps, fans, thermostat, etc; and I'm not sure what would be able to transfer to another owb if this one should fail.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 31, 2014, 01:02:54 PM
You might be surprised about the fan and aquastat not needing to be replaced. Pump you may or not need one that is a different size for your application. What I was actually referring to though was all of the other items such as concrete pad, in ground piping and heat exchangers in the house. All of that adds up fast!
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on January 31, 2014, 02:55:17 PM
Yes they do. I have been researching for quite a while and I have most everything picked out. The only that would change is if I find a local dealer, the. I might buy some off them as a good faith gesture
Good chance that we will be picking this thing up Sunday. Now I just have to find a shelter to store it in until I can start tinkering with it.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 31, 2014, 05:35:11 PM
If you need a new aquastat I would go with a Ranco aquastat. A lot of people upgrade to them and you could easily move it over to a new unit if you bought one.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on January 31, 2014, 08:24:43 PM
This one currently has a 2gal expansion tank plumbed to it. I'll have to take pics when I get the chance. It's 20+ years old and the belly of it is almost on the ground below it. Were Aqua-Therms made with stainless back then? This thing has a ton of rust on the outside, and in the firebox. I do like the plate right below the flu to keep heat from just running out. I also like the tubes in the firebox that appear to distribute air evenly for a complete burn. It's just the amount of rust that scares me.
do yourself a favor before anything once you pick it up.. plug the outlets  up and fill it up with water..See if there is any leaks etc..
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 01, 2014, 06:31:28 AM
Supposedly it has a water/antifreeze mix in it; but yeah. My plan was top it off and make a small fire in it then, just to see. If it holds, then I will begin the process of working on the electrical side of it, then the plumbing.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: boilerman on February 01, 2014, 10:44:16 AM
Before you fire that thing up, make sure you replace the pressure relief valve in it with a new one and get it pressure tested, especially if it has been sitting that long. Saw the results of one go off like a bomb one time. Was insulated and placed in a little out building. Built too much pressure for some reason and blew straight back out through the back wall and took out an 8 inch poplar tree. Insulation, building and metal laying all over the place. Fortunately happened when family was not home. Would not want to see anyone get hurt.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 01, 2014, 12:11:31 PM
Do you think a foot valve would work? I know that they are for back flow prevention but I would think that pressure would open it up before reaching dangerous levels.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 02, 2014, 08:04:39 AM
Also, would I be better served turning this into a non pressurized system given the age? I know that's what the relief valves are for, but I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on February 02, 2014, 08:33:53 AM
I believe you should operate it as intended. I don't think it would work well if it was designed as a pressurized unit and you used it as a non pressurized. I may be wrong through.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 02, 2014, 09:21:51 AM
That is the plan for now, but with the age of the metal, I didn't know if I would be better served by it not being pressurized.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 02, 2014, 10:25:02 AM
Run it as a closed system..Thats what the stove is designed to do..
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 02, 2014, 02:37:49 PM
Ok. I didn't plan on freezing rain, so I didn't get it today but I did get some pics.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on February 02, 2014, 02:44:41 PM
I know she looks pretty rough but Its probably fine. It looks like it has been sitting in doors and has been drained of water. Can't wait to hear about it running.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 02, 2014, 03:43:50 PM
A few more. Doing this on my phone so sorry for any duplicates.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 02, 2014, 03:53:01 PM
I know the temp/pressure gage, thermostat and aquastat, but what is the other thing? Does it have two of something or are all three for the same measurements?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 03, 2014, 05:03:30 PM
Was finally able to get a hold of Aqua-Therm on the phone. It has two aquastats and they weren't sure what the third control is. Oh well, now I have a start as far as finding parts goes. Wish I has the time and spare money to get this thing gong this weekend, but it's looking like a summer project
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 03, 2014, 07:50:10 PM
Thats def a older Aqua-Therm! Thats interesting where the supply and return hot water comes out the door..Yeah Im not sure yet on the third control..Maybe a 3rd zone to something? You can buy all of your parts right from Aqua-Therm..Also shop on www.altheatsupply.com (http://www.altheatsupply.com)
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on February 03, 2014, 08:14:24 PM
Just trace where the wires go to from the aquastats. That will tell you what they are for.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 03, 2014, 08:21:27 PM
Yeah, I'm not quite sure about the whole hot water with the door thing either. I thought the hot water supply ran up, through the expansion tank then down in the ground. The return in under it, on the bottom of the belly in the middle, and I have no idea where the line coming off the door leads. It goes in the dirt and disappears, unless it t's into the cold return to act as a mixing valve before re-entering the tank.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 03, 2014, 08:33:29 PM
And when you say update to a Ranco, is that because they are digital or are they just better? I ask because they seem like they are priced the same if not cheaper than the Honeywells?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 04, 2014, 07:26:08 PM
 Google Aqua-therm 140..Theres someone thats selling a aqua-therm 140 on craigslist..Has a few pics..From the pics I saw ya those are def the supply and return lines..Far as the Ranco  Someone else your referring to?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 04, 2014, 08:53:22 PM
hondaracer2oo4 made the suggestion about the Ranco aqua-stats. Sorry for not being more specific in who I was referring to there. I see what you are saying about the supply and return lines on the door, but what do you think is the purpose? Heating the return water, or cooling the door? I guess it's really superficial, just curious.
 If I can get this thing going, is it advisable to enclose it, and make it look like one of the new sheltered units, such as yours MattyNH, or build a whole shed for it? I plan on insulating it very well, but am afraid that too much will allow the unit to overheat.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: slimjim on February 05, 2014, 05:26:58 AM
Be very sure that the pressure relief valves work on the boiler as it is a pressurized unit, if they fail and you have a power outage without fast emergency power somebody or something will be taking an explosive steam bath.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 05, 2014, 09:29:05 AM
Those are the first things that I'm replacing. I'm also considering adding another in place on an aquastat, just for good measure
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: slimjim on February 05, 2014, 10:51:27 AM
  Good for you, safety first
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 05, 2014, 01:54:02 PM
hondaracer2oo4 made the suggestion about the Ranco aqua-stats. Sorry for not being more specific in who I was referring to there. I see what you are saying about the supply and return lines on the door, but what do you think is the purpose? Heating the return water, or cooling the door? I guess it's really superficial, just curious.
 If I can get this thing going, is it advisable to enclose it, and make it look like one of the new sheltered units, such as yours MattyNH, or build a whole shed for it? I plan on insulating it very well, but am afraid that too much will allow the unit to overheat.
The boiler will never over heat due to too much insulation.. You can put that boiler in anything.. My buddy has his unsheltered in a metal shed that u buy at home depot..I would say from the pics of those pipes at the door are the supply and return lines..
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 05, 2014, 06:06:36 PM
Slimjim, this thing kinda scares me so I figured any extra precautions should be taken. To make me feel better if nothing else.
MattyNH, how big of a shed did he put it in? Just big enough for the boiler, or one with enough room to store some wood?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 05, 2014, 07:39:15 PM
Slimjim, this thing kinda scares me so I figured any extra precautions should be taken. To make me feel better if nothing else.
MattyNH, how big of a shed did he put it in? Just big enough for the boiler, or one with enough room to store some wood?
So what are you scared about the boiler? Like condition etc? You def should replace all parts ..That goes with the territory with anything old..Far as the shed, its pretty much just big enough for the boiler and then some..Enough room to walk around the boiler..Yeah you can put some wood in it..But not a ton..My buddy does the tarp thing for his wood
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 05, 2014, 07:45:31 PM
Just that you hear about these things blowing up, and then the age if it doesn't exactly add to my confidence.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 05, 2014, 07:48:01 PM
Where you hear about the boilers blowing up?? My oil boiler is a closed pressurized  system..Have you heard one blowing up?
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 05, 2014, 08:12:14 PM
Just internet horror stories. I've been filling my head with too much info and not all of it is true.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on February 06, 2014, 03:27:22 AM
Just internet horror stories. I've been filling my head with too much info and not all of it is true.
You def can't believe everything you read on the internet for sure
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: slimjim on February 06, 2014, 06:05:18 AM
Dover NH about 10 years ago, some nitwit plugged off the relief valve on an oil fired hot water tank. It does happen, not often and would not happen at all if folks did as they are supposed to and maintain their equipment.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 06, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
Pressure& temp relief valves= no pressure bomb. Though I would love to turn a water heater into a rocket! >:D
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: slimjim on February 07, 2014, 06:29:47 AM
In that particular case, ignorance and being cheap= disaster
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on February 07, 2014, 06:39:35 AM
 Ever since I saw it on Myth Busters, I've wanted to try it. Just don't feel like trashing the field or the generator.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on March 15, 2014, 11:59:03 AM
Well crap. Cleaned out the ash and whatever else was left in it last night. Aaannddd this is what I found today when i went out to it today. Looks like Im draining it and shipping it to the scrap yard.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: MattyNH on March 15, 2014, 12:05:30 PM
 That suxs. :(  Yeah I guess get your cash from the scrap yard..Hope you didn't have too much invested if any..
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on March 15, 2014, 01:23:30 PM
Well I lost my wedding ring in the process of getting it, but no money, just time invested.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: Crow on March 15, 2014, 02:40:03 PM
 :o I'm somewhat confused. How did you loose your ring? Was it on your finger and if so how is the finger? Or did the Mrs take back the ring? 
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on March 15, 2014, 06:20:47 PM
No nothing like that. We had to drain the boiler a bit to get it to where the skid steer would lift it. The bottom valve didn't close when we went to cut the line, and I got antifreeze water all over my hands. So I stuck my hands in the snow and when I shook them off, the combination of my fingers shrinking in the cold and being slightly slick from the antifreeze, the ring flew off my hand into the snow. We went back with a metal detector, but didn't have any luck. My wife has since bought me a cheap ring to get by till we can replace the missing one.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: racnruss on March 15, 2014, 07:46:44 PM
bummer about the ring.

I haven't worn mine in years except when the wife hands it to me when we're going to a wedding reception or something.  Heard of a guy who was framing houses and came down off a wall and his ring caught on the top plate and his body weight pulled his finger right off.

Take new ring money and put it toward a new boiler. >:D
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: Crow on March 16, 2014, 07:16:40 AM
Yeah that sucks. I never wore mine either because of fears of getting stuck in a tight spot or shorting out on electrical circuits ( auto tech) so left it in a safe place. House gets broken into and the jerk/s found it. Never replaced it, we agreed since I rarely wore it we would put the money to better use.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on March 16, 2014, 09:01:17 AM
That really blows. It must have been the ashes left in the firebox trapping moisture. Was the flue pipe exposed to the outdoors? Could have been uncovered and allowed rain water to get in and trap it.
Title: Re: Old Aqua Therm 140
Post by: jtepn87 on March 16, 2014, 07:28:02 PM
All of the above. I was encouraged because the top ashes were dry each time I took a look at it, but when I started shoveling it was nothing but wet mud. There was no standing water at first, but after about 18 hrs, that is what I found. Oh, well. I think I'm going to drain it completely, and have some fun tinkering with ideas before scrapping it. I'm thinking maybe getting a blower for it and trying the whole lava rock thing.