Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Crown Royal => Topic started by: slimjim on June 25, 2019, 12:37:32 PM

Title: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 25, 2019, 12:37:32 PM
So I have a potential customer for an install looking at the Crown Royal 7300 and he asked me what the efficiency rating is on it, does anybody know where it stands?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 26, 2019, 04:37:38 AM
Ryan Horne?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on June 26, 2019, 06:57:32 PM
His/her dealer will have that info.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 27, 2019, 03:30:14 AM
Well you see, he doesnít have a local dealer, Iíll be installing whatever he chooses to buy but all he has to go buy is the advertising found here and on Facebook. Ryan advertises up to 99% combustion efficiency but he and as well I would like to know what the actual overall average efficiency is of the boiler as compared to others on the market. I would think that a guy like you in the know with Crown Royal would be able to answer that very simple question.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: E Yoder on June 27, 2019, 05:02:45 AM
Is that the 7300e, MP, or 7300? I get confused on their models with the same numbers being used.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 27, 2019, 05:12:30 AM
I think heís looking at the E model Eldon and heís wondering if it will qualify for the Efficiency Maine rebate.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 27, 2019, 11:26:08 AM
Hmmmmn, isnít that odd? All this great news and advertising but not a sole can come up with any actual data about the efficiency numbers, something smells funny!
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: E Yoder on June 28, 2019, 05:10:14 AM
https://cfpub.epa.gov/oarweb/woodstove/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.searchwh (https://cfpub.epa.gov/oarweb/woodstove/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.searchwh)

That's all I can find.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 28, 2019, 12:28:36 PM
Well surprise surprise, an anonymous donor just sent me a picture of their hang tag, not only did they barely pass the EPA qualification to be phase 2 compliant but they also show an efficiency rating of no better than 64%. Could somebody Please enlighten me as to why itís OK to boast a 99% combustion efficiency with those sorts of numbers?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 28, 2019, 07:36:26 PM
Something smells fishy. Crown royal isnít selling factory direct into that area. There is a dealer that will be providing him the sale on the boiler and can provide information needed.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: RSI on June 28, 2019, 11:04:31 PM
I am assuming the combustion efficiency is something like Pacific Western used to advertise. They claimed 97% if I remember right. I think that number for Pacific Western was the volume of wood to volume of ashes ratio.  I am not really sure why anyone would care about that but it sounds good advertising such a high number.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 03:21:30 AM
Well then Hondaracer, whatís the big secret, whoís this new dealer and how does he contact that said dealer?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 03:40:12 AM
RSI, I never sold Pacific Western so I wouldnít have any part of their misleading information.
For those of us who are well versed in the language of wood boilers and combustion efficiency vs overall efficiency I guess that it would be a good selling point but for those who are just entering the wood boiler world and are led to believe that itís an extremely efficient stove that rivals even propane boilers, it just doesnít seem very honest to me. I wonder, if they use information such as that in order to sell their stoves, what else might they be holding back?
  If you all think that Iím picking on Crown Royal for some reason, your off base, I simply asked what the actual overall efficiency is, here in Maine the Public Utilities Commission set up a rebate program for high efficiency wood boilers and stoves, the unit needs to be a minimum of 75% efficient to qualify so I guess itís not a qualifying unit.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 29, 2019, 04:33:08 AM
What happened when the customer filled out the ď find dealer near youĒ form?  https://www.crownroyalstoves.com/find-a-dealer/

Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 29, 2019, 04:35:52 AM
If he needs 75 percent overall efficiency then it looks like youíll be installing a heatmaster g200.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 04:42:43 AM
I donít know what happened, I believe that he came up empty with a dealer and nope, heís not getting a HeatMaster as heís done his research on them and found the issues that I pointed out on here that got all you guys that sell HeatMaster mad at me, heís not at all interested in them. Whatís the big secret? Whoís the dealer?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 29, 2019, 05:18:37 AM
Lol, sounds like he searched out an unbiased Opinion. Why don't you invite him to contact some owners of different products So he can have some different view points. You can probably fill out the dealer inquiry form if you are interested in a dealer servicing your area.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 05:34:00 AM
Oh boy, you sure do have a knack for avoiding answers to questions donít you? Iíd be willing to bet that itís the same guy that was going to sell HeatMaster but recently replaced his G 200 with a Crown Royal and wanted to buy my Brindle, I just wonder why the big secret? If he wants to sell boilers, I would think he wouldnít be hiding his contact info.
It really makes no difference to me, Iím told that he paid for a Polar yesterday and it will be shipped soon!
It seems that he prioritized being able to cash in on the rebate and doesnít want dealers he canít contact or experimental designs that change on the wims of the manufacturer for the worse.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 29, 2019, 07:01:08 AM
Wow, that's a lot of mud slinging towards a manufacturer from an industry " professional".
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 11:11:34 AM
Huh? Mudslinging, where?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 29, 2019, 11:16:30 AM
Do you know whom the dealer is or is it a big secret? You never know, I might run into somebody who wants a low efficiency gasser that doesnít care about the $3000.00 rebate!
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 29, 2019, 12:25:10 PM
This would be a great example of mudslinging if you weren't aware of what that is.

It seems that he prioritized being able to cash in on the rebate and doesnít want dealers he canít contact or experimental designs that change on the wims of the manufacturer for the worse.

Ohh and by the way. You may want to check out your own brands website that states the Polar gasser is 99.5% efficient. Seems a bit " misleading to those new customers "
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on June 30, 2019, 03:34:53 AM
Mudslinging would be if it werenít true, you still havenít given me contact info for that mystery dealer and Iím not going to get into one of your petty  back and forth.
Oh and by the way, I no longer sell boilers of any brand.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on June 30, 2019, 06:53:58 AM
Lol, good luck with your secret dealer.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 13, 2019, 08:54:12 AM
So did your customer get those numbers from his dealer yet?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 14, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
Iím glad you asked, he researched and found the hang tag, pretty dismal numbers, not 2020 compliant and nowhere near efficient enough to qualify for the rebate program.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 14, 2019, 07:09:35 PM
Wierd, I thought I heard from someone that those testing procedures from the epa were "poor" and "not repeatable with consistency". Suddenly they are highly accurate when used to compare to a polar unit. What a joke.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: mlappin on July 14, 2019, 09:00:34 PM
Iím glad you asked, he researched and found the hang tag, pretty dismal numbers, not 2020 compliant and nowhere near efficient enough to qualify for the rebate program.

Out of curiosity, what kind of numbers were required to meet the program and how much did they pay then?

Nothing like that in Indiana, however our utility did have a program years ago to replace older conventional OWB. I can guarantee they werenít doing it out of the goodness of their cold little hearts, most likely would get carbon credits or some hokum along those lines.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 15, 2019, 03:30:56 PM
Gee Honda, I guess they could be inaccurate but itís the best we have to work with. It does however give the customer something to go on when it comes to choosing a more efficient unit!
Mlappin, I believe it must be above 70% efficiency.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 15, 2019, 03:35:39 PM
Honda, are we still talking about those bogus numbers on the stack temps of the HeatMaster G 200 that you were so proud to post?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 15, 2019, 04:29:29 PM
The Internet is a big world of
History. Post for everyone to see a link to where I stated such.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 16, 2019, 05:44:13 AM
Are you now denying that you posted the test results and that we had a heated conversation about the stack temps being bogus?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 16, 2019, 06:59:30 AM
Honda, are we still talking about those bogus numbers on the stack temps of the HeatMaster G 200 that you were so proud to post?

This is what you stated. I replied for you to show me where I stated that I was "proud to post stack numbers". In reality I posted a link to the testing numbers that intertek gathered for people to look at and YOU misinterpreted the numbers without knowledge of how they were gathered, for what purpose and if they were even relevant to the actual testing being done. You then insisted in the lack of knowledge that they must be fraudulent because you didn't understand them. Again, a joke.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 16, 2019, 09:28:15 AM
Then by all means, Please explain where Iím wrong sir!
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 16, 2019, 09:48:43 AM
You are wrong to have accused me of "proudly posting stack numbers" I did no such thing.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 16, 2019, 11:29:24 AM
So you agree then that they arenít as impressive as the test suggests?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 16, 2019, 02:08:49 PM
Negative, what I'm saying is that I never "proudly posted stack temps". I posted the testing results for
People to see. You interpreted something as stack temp which may or may not actually be what you would think of as "stack temps".
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 16, 2019, 03:24:46 PM
According to Warren Walborn, the top boiler expert in the world, nobody makes a 2020 compliant stove yet except some patent pending technology that he holds. What will you be installing in lieu of the Crown Royal? Is Hawken making a comeback?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 17, 2019, 04:02:33 AM
Gee Honda, so you posted the test results which actually have a column reflecting stack temps to be a maximum of 266 degrees and we all know that the G 200 from HeatMaster actually runs much higher and are actually up around 400. You actually canít or wonít answer to that question, why?
Wreckit, I believe he has now bought a Polar and Iíll be installing it, he did his research.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 17, 2019, 07:32:47 AM
Gee, was "You interpreted something as stack temp which may or may not actually be what you would think of as "stack temps"" not clear enough?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 17, 2019, 11:59:03 AM
Gee, thatís funny, I think the column that Iím referring to actually states stack temp!
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 17, 2019, 12:34:48 PM
*sigh* not sure how else I can say  this so you can understand. What is referenced on that spreadsheet may not be what you think of as "stack temp". In other words it's not what you think it is.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 17, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
Isn't the Polar listed as like 96% efficient or some super high number? According to Warren, the Polar doesn't meet the 2020 standards either and he's the leading boiler expert in the world. Why would this customer take that risk over, say, a Crown Royal?
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 17, 2019, 05:42:24 PM
Good point wreckedit. Says right here http://www.polarfurnace.com/products/gclass that the polar is 99.5% efficient! Wowsa.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 18, 2019, 05:04:50 PM
A 99.5% efficient boiler doesn't meet the EPA standards for 2020???? I wonder what the threshold is, maybe 99.6? Maybe Warren can chime in, since he helped write the law and knows his design will meet the standards.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 29, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
I sure hope Slim is okay, I'm really anticipating some clarification
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: mlappin on July 30, 2019, 10:34:41 AM
*sigh* not sure how else I can say  this so you can understand. What is referenced on that spreadsheet may not be what you think of as "stack temp". In other words it's not what you think it is.

And thatís the issue with government, even what seems obvious never is and they tend to do things that really donít make a lot of sense to the common man. Stack temp should be stack temp, plain and simple, but again with any government agency it never is.

Right now even the government employees at the ASCS and USDA office has no clue to how prevented plant (PP) acres will be handled from a conservation standpoint. One employee from one office says one thing, another employee says different and the crop insurance agent is saying something else entirely about PP acres.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on July 30, 2019, 09:30:05 PM
Well said Marty.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: E Yoder on July 31, 2019, 05:50:08 AM
Try reading sales tax laws... Origin states, destination states, and California has they're own unique twist. Now it's changing again with the Supreme Court ruling. I'm trying to wrap my head around it all.
Not saying anyone is stupid or meant it to be this way. Just that it's the real world and the rules are moving at a different speed and I'm not a lawyer. :)
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 31, 2019, 10:26:19 AM
You certainly are a funny guy there Wreckit, number one, I personally never use the combustion efficiency to promote a boiler like many manufacturers do, so Please donít make it sound like I do, the numbers I like to see are the official overall efficiency numbers from an approved lab.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: mlappin on July 31, 2019, 03:34:56 PM
Try reading sales tax laws... Origin states, destination states, and California has they're own unique twist. Now it's changing again with the Supreme Court ruling. I'm trying to wrap my head around it all.
Not saying anyone is stupid or meant it to be this way. Just that it's the real world and the rules are moving at a different speed and I'm not a lawyer. :)

Ready for this one?

Government threw together a quick program to aid the farmers that got hit by the wet weather and couldnít get all their acres planted. PP acres are eligible for $28.19/acre towards planting approved cover crops. Course being federal there is several layers of paperwork to slog thru and the ground has to be certified as well or something. Best part is, the program wasnít finalized until sometime Monday before lunch and it all has to be done by end of business today (Wednesday). Basically the ladies at the USDA office said nobody here will be getting a dime of it as itís impossible to comply with in 2 business days. However counties around here were designated disaster areas and given emergency grant money of $20/acre which I can comply with easy enough. Best part is most of the people Iíve talked to didnít hear a thing about it till Monday night or Tuesday morning, most by word of mouth.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: wreckit87 on July 31, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
You certainly are a funny guy there Wreckit, number one, I personally never use the combustion efficiency to promote a boiler like many manufacturers do, so Please donít make it sound like I do, the numbers I like to see are the official overall efficiency numbers from an approved lab.

I wasn't trying to be funny, just wondering what the actual numbers are from the Polar and how much better they are than say, the Crown Royal. I recall reading somewhere that the Polar didn't qualify for that Maine rebate either but that was probably just hearsay.
Title: Re: Crown Royal efficiency numbers
Post by: slimjim on July 31, 2019, 05:26:56 PM
Well gee, I donít know where you heard or read that information but itís dead wrong, I have in the past gotten several rebates for my customers. I guess if you really want to know the numbers, you could look at the label from Intertech just like I had to when researching Crown Royal!