Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - woodman

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 17
1
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 10:15:08 AM »
jreimer
Please quote a verifiable source that shows that 100 lbs. of spruce has the same btu's as 100 lbs. of oak, dried to the same MC.  Are you saying it's absolutely invariant, or just that it's a second-order effect?  I'll grant you, if you want to only dry for one season, you'll want to burn pine.

All wood species have the same amount of btu's per pound at the same mc. The difference is density. A cord of oak weighs a lot more than a cord of pine.

2
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Another BTU question
« on: January 06, 2018, 06:08:05 PM »
Are the HX in series now? Primary/secondary loops here might work quite well in this case.


Yes currently in a series. I am planning on Primary/secondary loops at a later date. I am slowly making changes to my system that I would have originally done 10 years ago if I would have known what I was doing then.

3
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Another BTU question
« on: January 06, 2018, 05:56:05 PM »
Yes, lots of good answers here and I appreciate all of them. If I can figure out how to get pictures up I will try to post some of what I have been working on. A Taco 0011 delta T circulator will probably be what I end up going with, but I have a new unused 15-58 3 speed that I am going to try for now just to see how low I can go. My lineset is 120 feet one way plus another 30 or so feet of indoor pex and 3 heat exchangers so I end up with around 20+ feet of head at 6.5 gpm with my current  B and G pl-30 on the back of my boiler.   

4
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Another BTU question
« on: January 05, 2018, 03:30:33 PM »
Unless you have very good mixing at your boiler, returning water under 140 can cause some serious issues.

I think we’ve all seen when first starting a boiler for the season it sweats a LOT until water temp is over 140, same effect if your returning cold water and that hits a spot on the firebox before it has a chance to mix.

I understand. The water will be going back to storage. Once again this is to promote stratification and low flow. It's hard for me to explain everything I have going on. Mostly looking for a hypothetical answer. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around a concept.

5
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Another BTU question
« on: January 05, 2018, 12:57:46 PM »
I seem to have a lot of hypothetical questions this year. I know target delta t for most hx's is 20, but why? Does a delta t of 20 amount to a given amount of btu's regardless of water temperature?  For example, with everything else being the same (blower cfm, system gpm) are there the same amount of btu's derived from 180-160 as there is from 140-120? If so, and you disregard return temperature and had a delta t of 60 degrees would that be the equivalent BTU's to 3 times the gpm of a delta t of 20? The reason I ask is I am trying to get more BTU's through my 1" Thermopex lines, without using a larger circulator. It seems you hit a wall at 7.5-8 GPM with 1" pex.

I have been watching my water temps with this cold snap, (low teens for highs, lows 0-10 below) and am able to HEAT my house with 110 water, and MAINTAIN house temps down to 90-100 degree water. With 160 water and a delta t of 20 the temp at my registers is 130. What would the temp be at the registers be if I slowed the water down and pulled water temp from 160-100 at the hx?     

6
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Almost
« on: December 08, 2017, 05:44:33 AM »
I have not really been following this thread so I don't know all the details of the problem, but it sounds like you are not happy with the wood consumption of your system and are trying to figure out where all the btu's are going, correct? I also am not sure if this has been suggested yet, sorry if it has. What I did was isolate my underground pipe where it enters the house. It takes 3 valves and 1 loop, similar to the bypass of a water softener. Then get a 5 gallon bucket and pull the return pipe off the owb and catch the water for 20 seconds. Measure and multiply by 3, you now know your gpm through just the underground pipe. Build a small fire to get your boiler up to high set point then turn off the fan, noting what time it is. Let the circulator loop through only the boiler and underground line, the longer the better but at least 4 hours. At that point check the water temp at boiler and figure btu loss. It is a pain in the neck but it will tell you if there is a problem with the underground line set. No more guessing.

7
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 06, 2017, 06:55:33 PM »
Woodman has your question been answered? I only brought up my deal to say I might have an example in the near future- totally wasn't planning on hijacking your thread. I'd rather keep on your topic if you're still needing information

I think I am good. I have a hx on order but will be out of town for a couple weeks so it may take a while before I can report back, between vacations and Christmas. It's fine with me to keep this thread going the direction it is. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I too have a very large and complex heat load and am making changes to address some of the possible problems I think your customer may run into. It will be interesting to compare notes when both are up and running.

8
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 06, 2017, 11:47:04 AM »
Wreck. Do you think maybe he'll need a buffer tank to make that 1 inch line work? The floor can eat off the buffer tank on a call for heat and the owb can charge the buffer while no Zones are calling.

I was thinking the same thing. I bought my 1000 gallon propane tank for a 100 bucks at a scrap yard.

9
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 06, 2017, 10:24:09 AM »
I'm working on a shop/house combo right now with a combined floor area of 9120 square feet. 29 loops of radiant in 3 zones, a 200k forced air unit heater, 120k A/W furnace coil, and domestic water all served with an OWB. Boiler is supposed to arrive Friday, so as soon as the overhead doors get installed I'll have it fired up for the drywall crew and let you know how the 20 plate 10"x20" exchanger performs, but it'll be apples to oranges with double the GPM on the radiant side over the OWB side at full draw. Despite my repeated nagging about getting bigger underground, he only buried 1" Thermopex because the CB dealer said it would be enough. This one I don't want to match temps since it's only radiant, but it should be interesting nonetheless

Ok I appreciate that. I hope this guy has a mountain of firewood ready! I also don't see how that system will work with that 1" line though.  Even if he forces 10-12 gpm with a oversized pump a Delta t of 20 would be what 100k-120k btu's? Try to pull more and send ice water back to the boiler that 3 way valve won't allow much heat to the system. Should be interesting alright

10
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 05, 2017, 11:29:59 AM »
Wreckit, Yes I believe we are on the same page now.

Wreckit, Honda,E Yoder, So are we all now in agreement that given enough time with constant circulation during a no load situation on the house side the temps on both sides of the exchange should equalize regardless the size of the  Hx? And that the size(number of plates) will determine how quickly the temps equalize?

11
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 05, 2017, 07:12:23 AM »
I have a owb open system that is plumbed to my indoor oil boiler system through a primary/secondary loop system. I have a primary loop that has a 50 plate plumbed into it. The primary loop has a circulator on it that is powered up when the house thermostat calls for heat. My oil boiler and my hydro air box are both secondary loops off the primary loop. I used to have my primary pump 24/7 and my water temp in the primary loop would run around 8-10 degrees below what the owb was supplying to the flat plate. It has never made any sense to me since a no load on the primary loop should result in temps on both sides of the flat plate reaching very close to the same temp. I don’t know why this is but it is my expierence.

OK now we are getting some where. Think of my buffer tank as the primary loop.

Next, I like to have the water constantly circulating through the forced air hx. This way it always produces a little heat radiating out of the registers even when the blower is off. To me that provides a very even heat feeling rather than the shivering than sweating feeling of a traditional cycling forced air furnace.

However If I went directly from my storage to furnace hx with a 24/7 circulator I would not get much in the way of storage tank stratification. This is why I was thinking buffer tank in the middle. I would like this tank to mix and act similar to the way a owb water temp does cycling between setpoints.

Honda, is your flat plate plumbed counter or parallel? Would a larger hx allow you to get water temps closer to the owb?

12
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 05, 2017, 05:44:00 AM »
I don't know that I'm following.. Separating the buffer from the storage? They are the same thing, do you have 2 tanks? I think I need to sit this one out- what I'm understanding of your setup is that you want to have 1000 extra gallons of hot water to continue heating a space while you change some plumbing in the house. Storage between the boiler and tank won't do any good if you can't keep flow in the house right? I must be looking at this all wrong because I don't understand what you're trying to do

Yes I have 2 tanks and storage and buffer are not the same in this case but that is beside the point. Let me ask it in a different way. If I was installing a open owb system to a closed indoor boiler rated at 100,000 btu with a plate exchanger between them, what plate hx would give the highest water temps in the indoor boiler. And what would the expected water temp be in the indoor side assuming 180 water from the owb?

13
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 04, 2017, 10:35:57 AM »
Or was the term "domestic" misplaced and you're using the closed side for heating purposes? That's a different can of worms

Lol! I'm not too smart but I know better than to shower in boiler water. This is not a dhw application it is a buffer tank application. I'm making a change and incorporating 1000 gallons of storage. I was going to seperate the buffer from the storage to promote stratification within the storage and buy some time while I make some plumbing changes on the house side.

14
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Flat plate question
« on: December 04, 2017, 05:59:58 AM »
Do you want the domestic water to get up to furnace temp? I personally prefer about 140, safer and you don't run out. I've seen dairy barns need to go hotter though..just asking to understand how you're using it.

Well its kinda a long complicated story but to summarize I am separating a open system from a closed system.

15
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Flat plate question
« on: December 03, 2017, 07:04:01 AM »
Hi guys. Will a flat plate hx have output water that eventually is the same temp as the owb input hot water if that same water is circulated through the hx on the domestic side. In other words if I am using 180 degree water from my  owb will the hx put out 180 degree water if there is no load, or is there a loss through the exchange that is not recovered in the water?

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 17