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Messages - dwneast77

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241
Central Boiler / Re: melting e classic
« on: February 18, 2012, 08:58:18 PM »
Let's try this again, somehow I just deleted what I was writing.

Pintopaul -

I wanted to let you know that my new air channel design is a huge success.  This unit has never burned so hot.  I may actually have to lower that solenoid a little and restrict it down.  I even told my dealer what I did and he was all for it being removable for cleaning.

Here's what we did:

Cut out the back portion of the air channel.
A 2" nipple will fit into the air inlet pipe perfectly which is 2 1/2" inside.  So we came into a 2 1/2" T.  Now I screwed a Nipple into the T and cut off the excess and we welded a 2" nipple into the 2 1/2" nipple in the T.  We then added a nipple to the bottom of the T and cut it to fit, resting about 2/3s  on the refractory brick but leaving a place for drainage of creosote.  Then simply pipe up to the roof to a 90* elbow.  I added I think an 8" nipple to another T blowing the air to either side.  I would say, given the extra air flow that I am getting you could save a step and a little money and do the whole thing in 2".  For support we just welded two pieces of flat stock to the wall just under the bypass damper and I put a 1/2" x 4" hitch pin through them.  The entire assembly slides right out with the removal of just that one pin if needed.

I feel like this is the first time seeing what thing has been capable of for the last 3 1/2 heating seasons.  It has never been smoke free.  Many days I've been embarrassed by the amount of smoke coming out of it but never knew what I was doing wrong or could do to help it.  Now, it is virtually smoke free.  maybe 30 seconds or so on startup but it quickly dissipates.  The only really notable point to mention is that my fire is favoring the back end so I just move the pile back which makes up for most of it.  Shorter sticks of wood would help there also.   

Anyway, my dealer still told me to submit my bill, labeled "air channel repair" and Central Boiler would cover some or all of it.  The representative my dealer spoke with said they had payed upwards of 3 to 4 hundred for air channel repairs and I was given the verbal go ahead to get a welder in to do the job.  I had no intention of fixing the old design again, I just did that last year. 

Hope this can help you or somebody else out.

[attachment deleted by admin]

242
Central Boiler / Re: Reaction Chamber Temp
« on: February 18, 2012, 07:42:28 PM »
I know that I for one cannot say enough good about having a camera monitoring my boiler.  I run a greenhouse business which is a huge demand on my boiler.  I already had an 8 camara DVR system in place and I simply moved a nearby camera to the boiler.  It is invaluable to me as greenhouses use a rediculous amount of heat and thus will drop my boiler water temp in the blink of an eye.  I have the E-2300 which has had it's problems anyway.  I've recently made some extensive changes to my air channel and I'm getting a hotter fire than I've ever seen.  Unfortunately, I don't have the option to see my combustion chamber temp.  Would be nice if they would come out with an upgrade but probably never happen.  My DVR is also connected to the internet so I have that piece of mind to be able to watch it when I am away.  There is another option for monitoring water temp, however.  CB has in their accessories catalog a remote temp guage.  Comes with 75' of wire.  You can install it at the boiler, or even easier, install it into your supply line as it enters your house.  Simple install.  Just add a T with a bushing down to 1/8" and screw it in just like their little dial thermometers.  I'm planning to add a couple of those myself to monitor from different locations in my home.

Jeff

243
Portage & Main / Re: Nozzle in firebox floor, 250
« on: February 17, 2012, 12:47:28 PM »
     I see they all have wrinkles to iron out.  I can see how creosote gets into your air box now.  You painted a pretty clear picture Bill.  I'm attaching a picure of mine.  Maybe you can pass it along to P&M in there "suggestions" box.  That is one clear differance where CB is on the right track.  You might consider drilling that bottom hole in your air channel in the firebox a bit bigger for better drainage.  Mine originally had NO bottom drain holes.  Once they figured out the problem, CB sent a mailer telling me to drill a 3/4" hole on each side of the of the channel running against the back wall down near the firebrick.  It helped some but as you know it still built up and hardened/dried out.  Unfortunately, given the P&M design, I'm not sure you can completely stop the creosote in the air box.  Those gases will seek out any spot open to them and settle anywhere it can.  As a result of CB's design (where the tubes are covered when not in use), I have no trouble with my secondary air tube.  Usually clean is a whistle.  I typically don't even check it. 

     I might at some point try some modifications to my air design.  I may pipe off from the T at the end to each sidewall, install another T on each side, size it down, extend the pipes front and back and then down the sidewall.  Two pipes down each side, one near the front and one near the back.  As long as I can figure out how to do it and still easily remove it.  For right now I think I'll leave it as is.  I may have to actually slow down my primary air flow a little.  I opened my combustion chamber a little while ago and had to close it immediately.  Fire might be a little too big now and I was getting some blue smoke.  But it was certainly producing some heat.

Coolidge -  I know of 2 other 2300's both giving troubles.  I had a pin hole leak in mine a few weeks back.  Not too big a deal.  It was located in a corner and was probable just a bad weld.  Pretty easy fix.  My neighbor's dad has one in town, same unit, and he just had a leak form right in the middle of the sidewall on the same day my welder was here working on my air channel.  About a quarter sized area worn down extremely thin.  Rediculous to for a unit only on it's 4 season.  Doesn't make me feel very confident.


Jeff

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244
Portage & Main / Re: Nozzle in firebox floor, 250
« on: February 17, 2012, 06:33:36 AM »
Hi Bill,
     Some questions about your unit....  Does your unit have  the drain hole at the bottom of your air channel inside the firebox?   And how are your air pipes set up in your air box?  They come through the wall horizontally I imagine.  But how do the dampers/covers work???  Mine, as I said earlier, comes in to the air box and has a 90* elbow facing up.  Sitting over the opening is a plate/cover with a solonoid over that which lifts the cover when there is a call for heat.  So the air tube would fill with creosote as far as the elbow, but nothing ever leaks into the air box.  What a mess that must be.  Does it affect your blower any?, or is that out of the way?   I wonder what you could do for better drainage in the firebox air channel to prevent the backup into your air box??  I'll try to get a picture of my set up.  I'd like to see one of yours if you have the chance.

     Yes, I am in Maine, far Eastern Washington County.  Born and raised.  It's a descent place to live.  Everywhere has it's own problems though.  The grass is always greener on the other side. 

-Jeff

245
Portage & Main / Re: Nozzle in firebox floor, 250
« on: February 16, 2012, 08:17:53 PM »
Correction Bill,

     The WD10000 is considered a smoke free gasifier (they call it a converter).  Now the fire in the lower combustion chamber is no where near as intense but it is much larger and drawn down throughout the full length of the converter tube, from the front of the boiler to the back which is about a 6' stretch.  The biggest difference is that the "nozzle", if you can call it that, is 4 slots equally spread accross the floor instead of 1 that you see in all other gassifiers.  They make for a large surface area of the floor to burn hot so there is less chance for bridging to take place.  I can understand by the designs of most models that the hot spot would be right in the middle where the "nozzle" is, which is what happens with my 2300.  Now, the WD does tend to have it's hottest fire near the front of the firebox (since the air is introduced at the front door, it comes in through the right side of the door frame), but since that door is high in the firebox it doesn't matter if the wood falls forward.  The important thing is that the fire keeps burning hot.  You are right, heat is the main thing. 

A quick note on the performance of the 2300 since changing the air channel.  It has only been 2 days running, but fire seems to be favoring the back end.  I'm not yet sure how much better it's running, but I'm confident it's not any worse.  Like I said, at least I KNOW it's getting sufficient primary air now and I may open up that primary air solenoid a little bit as well and see what more air does.

246
Portage & Main / Re: Nozzle in firebox floor, 250
« on: February 16, 2012, 11:24:23 AM »
Hi everybody,

I'm pretty new to this sight but I'm really glad I found it.  I've been checking back regularly and reading up on several brands of OWBs.  I've heard a lot of good talk about Portage and Main and I am considering it a future option.  I esp. like the new Opt. 450 they are offering since I heat several greenhouses.  Anyway, I found this thread to be especially interesting since it addresses a long time problem that I have faced.  I have 2 OWBs.  The first is CB E-Classic 2300.  I find it to be very touchy.  But the overall design is very similar to P&M Opt. 250, except how the primary air is introduced.  E-2300 brings the air in through the back wall  and across to either side along the bottom of the firebox, esentially making a big U shape.  This is good as it puts the air blowing right over the coals.  However, too much build-up of ash with block flow.  In my case the air channels along the side have deteriorated and even separated some from the sidewall thus allowing creosote to fill the air channels.  It has dried and caked in there very tightly barely allowing air to pass with no way to really get in there to clean it out.  It has built up so bad that it too backs up into my air box.  Which leads me to a question.  The end of the tube in my CB that is in the air box has a removable 90 degree elbow pointing up with a flat cover on it.  When there is call for heat the cover is lifted by a solenoid for both primary and secondary air.  Is the Opt 250 set up the same way??  Mine has never actually leaked into the air box because of the elbow, but my tube has been about 70% blocked before.  In pictures and vidoes I've seen of the Opt 250, there is a drain hole in the bottom of your air channel to allow for some drainage of creosote.  Does yours have that hole??


I recently mimicked the Opt 250 air channel design, rather than fixing what I had.  It's in pretty bad shape and again, full of crud.  So I had a welder help me run a 2 1/2" pipe to the top of my firebox and elbow toward the front to about the middle ending in a "T" to blow the air to each side.  Also, where the air comes into  the firebox, we came into a "T" so that the bottom side of the tube could rest on the floor but also act as a drain for creosote.  While I don't think this has fixed all my issues with this stove, I know I am getting sufficient primary air, and, the complete assembly is easily removable for cleaning.

Now I'm not sure if it's all just my wood to blame or not, but I do have signifigant trouble with bridging, having tried about every trick I can think of.  The worst, of course, is during times of high demand.  I did pick up a used WD 10000 to try to run along with my CB.  I've been test running it over the last almost week.  I don't know if it burns as clean as my CB is supposed to but I find it less tricky to operate, even with wetter wood (some that I'm just using up).  I see that the fire in the combustion chamber is much less intense because it doesn't really have a "nozzle".  The fire travels down through 4 slots running crossways spread out front to back.  Puts out amazing heat.  The other night I left my thermostat in my greenhouse, 27' x 72' set at 60 degrees when the outside temp dropped to below 0.  2 air heat exchangers running at 140k btu each.  Barely keeping the temp at 60 (keep in mind the ground in the greenhouse is cold if not frozen right now) but the boiler maintained water temp between 170 and 180 and would run through cycles and even shut down for a time.  My CB 2300 would have been brought to it's knees with that kind of heat load.

I've attached a few photos.  I really enjoy this sight and look forward to anything I can learn from everybody's experiences.  I can only hope some of my thoughts and stories can help someone else as well.

Jeff

[attachment deleted by admin]

247
Central Boiler / Re: melting e classic
« on: February 09, 2012, 12:52:36 PM »
pintopaul -  I've been pretty disappointed in the performance of this unit as well.  Has never really burned clean on a consistant basis.  Manual says not to operate the unit with the combustion chamber open so I never dared to open it while in operation,... that is, until last season.  That's when I realized that it wasn't always even gasifying.  I grant you I don't always have the dryest wood.  But sometimes I would be smoking like crazy, open the door and have a rip-roaring blaze inside.  I couldn't figure it out.  Now I monitor the combustion chamber regularly, leaving the outer door cover off all the time for quicker access.  I've found that sometimes opening the damper door for a few seconds and then closing it will ignite the gases.  With regard to the air channels,  I'm having a welder come back and "repair" them, ie. get rid of them.  I've looked at several different models (including the Wood Doctor that I am in the process of installing as we speak) and determined that having the air come in along the bottom sides like it does is not necessary.  Wood Doctor brings it in at the door.  I, myself, am following Portage and Main's design on their Optimizer 250.    http://www.portageandmainboilers.com/index.html   I suggest watching their video of the 250 in operation.  My CB has never had a flame so hot and consistent.   My welder and I have come up with a plan to use 3" square channel straight up from the inlet hole, actually let it rest on the floor for support and drainage of creosote, go all the way to the top and elbow over to another channel which will follow the roof toward the door.  We plan to just weld hangers from the ceiling  with a pin going through or under the channel to hold it.  That way it is quickly and easily removable for cleaning/repair/replacement.  I don't think it will ever need replacement as will be up and away from the extreme heat.  And the build-up us ash and creosote that I've dealt with inside my air channels will become a non-issue allowing a more consistant, non-restricted flow.  Maybe I get a better and cleaner burn out of it finally.  We'll have to wait and see.  I hope this is useful info for you.

Jeff

248
Central Boiler / Re: water driping from door
« on: February 02, 2012, 10:32:03 PM »
Trailmaster,
I just had a thought.  A quick test would be to swap guages.  That'll tell you quick enough if one is wrong.

249
Central Boiler / Re: water driping from door
« on: February 02, 2012, 10:00:36 PM »
I have 2 supply lines coming from my boiler.  1 feeds my house and the other is feeding a manifold with multiple pumps which heat my greenhouses.  Right now those are drained but I keep water circulating through the manifolds, but there is virtually no heat loss as it is located 10' from the boiler.  Anyway, I looked at both return lines today and it backed up my previous post about temp guages not being accurate.  The greenhouse line was 2 to 3 degrees warmer than the temp on the boiler.  The house return line was 5 to 6 degrees warmer than the current boiler temp.  I guess my house is just that efficient?........NOT!!  So accuracy is only so good.  Basically I was told make note of what it reads and watch it for changes.  I'll add too that my house lines are about 140' in length with 1" line and 009 pump.  My boiler is located at the far end of one of my greehouses.  Most of the line is above ground running under a bench with only regular pipe insulators and inside that green wrap my dealer gave me to keep water out.  Only about 35' is Thermopex going under my driveway to the home.  So a 50' run through insulated lines should not be dropping your temp.  Thermostatic valve?, maybe, or just a bad guage. 

250
Central Boiler / Re: water driping from door
« on: February 01, 2012, 10:23:20 PM »
Is it possible that the temp guage in the house is just not calibrated correctly?  I have several of the little 1/8" inline thermometers from my CB dealer and I have some that read as much as 5 degrees different.  Just a thought.  Thermostatic valve would be my next guess.

251
Central Boiler / Re: water driping from door
« on: February 01, 2012, 11:12:24 AM »
Might consider adding another temp guage before your heat exchanger.  Still doesn't answer the "flow rate" question, but would tell you if the problem is between the house and boiler. 

How do you like the 2400???  And how long have you been running it?  I'm on 4th season with 2300.  Overall not bad, I have to watch bridging in times of high consumption (I run greenhouses along with my house) and I have had several small repairs and upgrades.  Recently a small leak in a bad corner weld and my air channel is not holding up well.  Looking at my options for fixing or replacing them or sending the unit back for factory repairs and remaining upgrades.

252
Central Boiler / Re: water driping from door
« on: January 31, 2012, 06:47:29 AM »
I can't speak about the a-coil but my dealer strongly urged the 3-way zone valve at my furnace and I saw why really quick.  The first day I fired up my boiler and charged the lines I did not have the electrical set up at my furnace yet so I opend the zone valve to flow through the exchanger for the night until I could do he wiring.  My house climbed up over 80 degrees in the night.  Granted it was not cold outside that night but probably between 30 or 40 (this was back in Dec. 2008).  My system is an updraft but even a down draft would do the same, the hot air would just flow out the return.  If the heat has a way to rise, it will.

253
Central Boiler / Re: melting e classic
« on: January 28, 2012, 09:21:32 PM »
I just found this site last night and I've spent a fair amount of time today reading.  Mostly about Wood Doctor as I've picked up a used one and I'm about to set it up.  However, I have been running my E-Classic 2300 since Dec. of 2008.  I usually run it until the end of May before summer shut down.  I too replaced the fusion combustor early in the second season.  Then, last year my air channel really started cracking pretty bad and even seperating from the side wall.  I was given the go-ahead to call in a welder to repair it.  I was also told that Central Boiler, at a cost of $200 to me, would take the unit back to the factory and give it all remaining updates as well as new, "straight" sidewalls, filling in where firebricks were shipped in the sidewalls.  This was Jan. of 2011.  My dealer told me to call him in the spring and we'd make arrangements.  When I called in July, I felt like I got the run-around, but being in business I was too busy at the time to pursue it.  Recently, I had noticed that one of the patches on the air channel (left side) is in really bad shape.  I have a hole approx. 1" x 2 1/2".  I have also always had trouble with build-up inside the air channels which makes airflow difficult to maintain.  I can't believe they don't give you any way to get in to clean out the channels.  I also developed a small leak in the firebox.  I have had a welder come in and take care of that.  Central Boiler will cover that cost 100% as long as it's not corrosion related.  This leak was right in a corner weld that went bad.  So far, that is holding.  With regard to the air channel, my dealer did call Central Boiler about that again and forwarded on my pictures.  I was told they would do 1 of 2 things.  Either send me a new air channel kit and pay up to $400 for a welder to install them or we could arrange to send the unit back at some cost to me.  I hope to have all of the details on that Monday.

There is a lesson I've learned here.  Buying the 1st model year of anything is a bad idea.  I will say that overall my dealer and Central Boiler has been pretty good to me.  I only wish the 3200 model was available when I bought this one as I heat greenhouses with it.  It is a challenge to keep my water temp up during that time.  Hence why I picked up the used Wood Doctor unit.  The price was right.

Hope this info helps.  Any questions I'd be happy to try to help.   - Jeff

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