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Author Topic: A Newbie with some questions  (Read 8715 times)

Penguinfan

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A Newbie with some questions
« on: November 15, 2008, 08:03:32 AM »

Hi, I'm new to this form and Outside Woodburning. I've resently ordered a Woodmaster 3300 from my local dealer here in Northeast Pennsylvania. I'm going to be heating a 1248sq.ft. sectional home and my domestic hot water. The furnace will be about 100' from the house.  I'm doing the install myself with the help of family when needed. My hot air furnace is in my basement and the plenum is 20 1/4" by 23". I picked up the "packages" from my dealer so I can start the install while waiting the arrival of the furnace. He gave me a Taco 011 cir. pump, flange kit, 20 plate water/water heat exchanger, thermostat, control, 19x21 water/air exchanger and some fittings. I have already ran my insulated pex (Rehau Insulpex 2x1" foam insul.) and 12-2 underground wire to the furnace site at a 2' depth.
My questions are:
1. Why run the incoming hot water to the water heater first? Then add a mixer valve to cool the domestic hot water. Has anyone ran to the water/air first?
2. What's the best way to plumb the 20 plate water/water? I've seen it most often receiving the cold water before entering the hot water heater. But I've also seen it installed off the drain at the bottom of the water heater. Then enters the top of the heater. My father (old school) thinks the later will give you more thermal circulation while not in use. Is he right?
3. Should I install a filter? And if so where in the system?
4. I would like to install a boiler fill valve in the basement. Should I install it on the return line just before leaving the basement?
Any input, instruction or pictures will be appreciated.
Thanks
John
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willieG

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 04:44:12 PM »

Hi, I'm new to this form and Outside Woodburning. I've resently ordered a Woodmaster 3300 from my local dealer here in Northeast Pennsylvania. I'm going to be heating a 1248sq.ft. sectional home and my domestic hot water. The furnace will be about 100' from the house.  I'm doing the install myself with the help of family when needed. My hot air furnace is in my basement and the plenum is 20 1/4" by 23". I picked up the "packages" from my dealer so I can start the install while waiting the arrival of the furnace. He gave me a Taco 011 cir. pump, flange kit, 20 plate water/water heat exchanger, thermostat, control, 19x21 water/air exchanger and some fittings. I have already ran my insulated pex (Rehau Insulpex 2x1" foam insul.) and 12-2 underground wire to the furnace site at a 2' depth.
My questions are:
1. Why run the incoming hot water to the water heater first? Then add a mixer valve to cool the domestic hot water. Has anyone ran to the water/air first?
2. What's the best way to plumb the 20 plate water/water? I've seen it most often receiving the cold water before entering the hot water heater. But I've also seen it installed off the drain at the bottom of the water heater. Then enters the top of the heater. My father (old school) thinks the later will give you more thermal circulation while not in use. Is he right?
3. Should I install a filter? And if so where in the system?
4. I would like to install a boiler fill valve in the basement. Should I install it on the return line just before leaving the basement?
Any input, instruction or pictures will be appreciated.
Thanks
John

[/quote question one in my mind...why indeed, what if you need to do work on your indoor plumbing...why not put a header after your pump and run seperate lines to each "device" you are going to use (and leave one or two extra outlets for future use)
i think you should have an incoming and a return header, that way you can isolate one if need be without interfearing with any other device you would like to keep operating

question 2 ...im with dad on this one your hot water tank will stay virtually "full of hot water" although i think your plate heater will be able to keep up with the demand made on it, if plumbed as he suggest you will be starting out with a full tank of water  as hot as your outdoor stove

question 3....i have heard many dealers  say you don't need a filter, especially with stainless steel stoves..i say different, all water has contaminents in it (unless you are using some sort of distilled water) i use a filter myself (allthough my stove is steel and home made)  i change the filter once a year and i do believe my rads will last longer. your father may be old enough to remember when we drove cars and tractors for 20 years and  if so he can probable tell you stories of plugged rads, i say , do  what yo ucan to prevent this

question 4...i guess you could do this but how will you know when you have topped off the stove or if you are overfilling it, it is not that often you have to add so i do it at the stove when i am loading it, this gives you a chance to eye over the stove and do your  routine checks (yes i think you need to do these) things like check the door  seal, the blower assembly  to make sure it is working freely and opening all the way when the blower comes on etc.  your new stove is a peice of equipment and just like your  car or lawn mower, you will get used to how it operates and will notice any little changes (if you spend a little time learning its "routine") and you can make adjustments or regular service then

these are just my opinions and i am sure you will get more and different ones, we are all trying to help from our own experiences, good luck with your new heat system
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ckbetz

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 08:56:19 AM »

I realize this isn't a Woodmaster but Central Boiler has quite a few sketches of different intallations.  Check these out...

http://www.centralboiler.com/otherExamples.html
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Penguinfan

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 04:00:58 PM »

Thanks everyone! That header on the hot line from the furnace and return line sounds like good idea.
I have Central Boiler's info.. I was also wondering if air bleeders in the lines are necessary? I want to do this install right, but don't want to waste any money on something I don't need.
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ckbetz

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 07:15:40 PM »

Since your system is open to the atmosphere the air should purge on it's own once it gets back to your OWB, especially if it's higher than your heat exchanger.
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Penguinfan

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 06:45:10 PM »

I'd like to thank everyone for his or her info.  My install is complete as of 12/3/08. We're up and burning for almost two weeks now. The 3300 heats our home more evenly than our oil furnace. We set the thermostat at 74 and it never falls below 72 and the furnace blower only runs about 5 minutes every twenty to thirty minutes. Unlimited hot water is great. My wife throws a load of laundry in while washing dishes and I can still shower. That never happened before. No leaks either.
I've been burning mostly cherry and ash with alittle hickory and poplar that I cut and split in October (about half a face cord so far). Not as much as I expected. Although we have had some nights in the teens and a three days in the fifties (average of 30 to 35). I load it so I get a 12 hour burn time. Hardly any creosote to my surprise. I think it burns the creosote out after a fill up of wood cause I've seen a deep red glow coming from the chimney when I fill at night. I've ask my neighbor (his house is about 100 yds. from the furnace) if he has been bothered by any smoke. He said "I really haven't seen it smoke very much and I had an indoor stove that gave off more smoke."
To make a long story short we love it. I should have made the investment a couple of years ago. Would recommend one to anyone who lives in a rural area.
Been thinking about adding a chimney cap and storm collar. Any suggestions or input? 
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willieG

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 07:55:50 PM »

glad to hear your happy with your stove and all is working well
as for your chimney cap...im not a big fan of them, my only reason is  in the spring and fall your stove will "smolder" for longer period of time between burns and you will get some creosote and it will build up  more on your cap and cause you trouble. I just put a plastic bucket over mine for the summer. there are probably some here whom will recomend a cap for  some reason that they believe is right, and maybe their reason is a good one. But my personal feeling is not to use one, you will have to decide for yourself and so far it sounds like you have made good choices...you are happy with your stove. Enjoy the winter
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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 10:48:03 AM »

About 4 years ago, I got sick of putting the bucket on, taking it off, it raining when I was using the boiler but I still wanted to protect it from rain getting inside so I went to Lowes and got a 10" 90 degree elbow in black popped it on and about every 1.5 years it finally rusts annd falls apart, i buy another one.  They are about $10.00
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Jason

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 06:57:18 PM »

That's not a bad idea.  Does it affect the draft in your firebox?  Does it take any more or less time for the fire to get rolling once the fan kicks on?
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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 11:20:44 AM »

Adding the 90 makes no difference in performance, you really arent restricting anything
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ckbetz

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Re: A Newbie with some questions
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 09:49:01 PM »

I have a spark arrestor and cap on my stove and have previously had problems that willie described.  I took it off and cut a bunch of large holes in the expanded metal.  It hasn't clogged since but to be honest I think it would draw better without a cap at all.  I'm in a bit of a residential area so I think having the arrestor is more important than leaving it completey open so I leave it on.  Since then I believe they've come up with some better cap designs so the chance of clogging is a little less. 
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