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[MarkP]

I ran my pex similiar to the way Jason did, but I also wrapped it in 3 layers of HVAC bubble wrap.  Then I slid it inside a 6" corrigated drain pipe.  I burried it 28" - 38" deep, depending on the rock I hit.  I covered the 6" pipe with sand to the top of it, then cut 12" wide pieces of 2" thick Tuff-R insulation board and laid in the ditch on top of the pipe and sand, then covered it up with dirt.  I was told early on that heat loss equals more firewood to cut.  I tried not to skimp.

[Jason]

If you look in the photo album section of this forum, you can see a pic in my album of the pipe poking through my basement wall.  Look in the site suggestion thread and the link to it is in one of Phin Phan's posts.  We just doped and glued the PVC together like normal.  It was a bit of a hassle sliding the pipe lengths over the pex, but well worth it from a cost savings perspective.  Another suggestion:  run an extra wire for 110V power in case you ever build a woodshed.  That way you are ready to put in a couple lights or an outlet.  If you ever need it it'll be there and if not, oh well.  I didn't do this and I wish I would have.

[John D]

If you make your own lines,i recommend u use PVC,not corrugated pipe.The pvc wont leak if glued correctly.The corrugated pipe will evetually leak down the road,letting water in,which your insulation will absorb like a sponge.Once wet,insulation becomes a conductor,you will need to dig it all up,and redo it.Do it once,do it right.

[AirForcePOL]

Yea i will probably just go with pvc it sounds like the best idea. Has anyone ever done heated floors or driveways? I was thinking of doing that in the future after i buy the OWB.

[yoda]

Yea i will probably just go with pvc it sounds like the best idea. Has anyone ever done heated floors or driveways? I was thinking of doing that in the future after i buy the OWB.

I also ran mine in 4" pvc.  My advice would be to dig trench with a backhoe so you have room to work down in the trench, I used a trencher and I can tell you it was a real PITA.  Unless you have a straight run with no bends, trying to make a bend and getting everything to fit down in a 4-5 inch wide trench is NOT easy. Also my settup is on a side hill so at the lowest point in the trench, I ran a T and ran a drain down the hill and daylighted the end so if I do get any water inside the pipe I can drain it out. All it takes is 1 glue joint that isn't perfect and you will get some water inside the pipe, with frost moving the pipe around I think it may be inevidable.

[willieG]

Yea i will probably just go with pvc it sounds like the best idea. Has anyone ever done heated floors or driveways? I was thinking of doing that in the future after i buy the OWB.

air force....heated driveways...i installed a setup like this 15 years ago in a car wash...at that time i used just 3/4 black pipe set on 3" of blue foam and we used a small swiming pool heater to heat the "water" (glycol and water mix)
the owner told me afterwards that he only ran the thing from 6 am till 10 am and the floor stayed warm enough to keep the ice off all day (of coarse the car wash had 3 walls and a ceiling for protection and was closed by 10 pm)

[AirForcePOL]

Do you remember how far apart you put the lines? I was thinking maybe about every foot. I am also planning on putting heated floors in my garage when i put it up. Do you think i will need another pump to run the garage and driveway? i wont do the whole driveway so maybe 30ft of it. And my garage will be 30x40. Any suggestions?

[willieG]

Do you remember how far apart you put the lines? I was thinking maybe about every foot. I am also planning on putting heated floors in my garage when i put it up. Do you think i will need another pump to run the garage and driveway? i wont do the whole driveway so maybe 30ft of it. And my garage will be 30x40. Any suggestions?

for your garage floor ...this is a good way to heat but to do it properly is costly you should be very careful on your underground preperation for this type of heat
you need to actually have your garage floor in a "bowl" of insulation to prevent heat loss (keep it to the very minimun)

most folks don't fully understand heat loss in this type of system. we are all taught early that "heat rises"..not entirely true in this case...heat GOES to cold is a better way of thinking
so to prevent this (again, keep it to a minimum) you need to insulate under your floor and on all edges of your floor.   12 inches apart is likley a good choice for spacing in the floor and i would keep a zone down to under 200 feet of pipe
 
i am no heating expert and my opinions are made from my experiences in dealing with helping friends install their systems and working close by real professional installers and seeing what they have done

as for another pump or not..i would vote for  a complete seperate closed loop system with glycol (antifreeze) water mix  heated by a 40 or 50 plate exchanger with an expansion tank, so if you wanted to "not heat" your floor or slab anytime you would not need to run the system

if you heated your garage slab and your outside drive i would recomend a "bypass"  so you could isolate your driveway and continue to heat your garage

what you propose to do...can be done quite easily..but will not be cheap compared to water to air heat exchanger and blower (typical hot air furnace) but when you are laying on the floor working on your car or truck the floor heat will sure be nice

i did a small floor radiant heat in my sun room, room is about 250 square feet, one zone do it yourself project ..cost me about 1500 bucks....2 inches of insulation under floor..1/2 pex at 12" centers...small taco pump, zone valve and mixing valve

[rross]

I purchased a 434 Woodmaster in 2001.  Always used their chemicals and kept stove clean.  Stove leaked at 4.5 years and 8 years.  With their prorated warranty you will pay  after 5 years, 60%,70%,80%,90% of repair costs to weld boiler.  Look for a stove with a long warranty if prorated or have a welder ready. 

[AirForcePOL]

I was told to not even pay attention to the warranty because they wont cover anything anyway. Other than a little welding have you had any other problems? I have a welder buddy of mine that lives about 2 miles down the road.

[charlie]

I just had a guy that does installs of gasification boilers tell me he uses 1 1/4" microflex pipe for the underground runs. 1" will limit your heat transfer to 100,000 btu's. So you'll  burn wood that you will never see the heat from, if your try to get more than 100,000 btu's from your stove. Plus bigger pipe lets you run a smaller pump. Less power consumption.I have 1 inch logstor which was like 12 dollars a foot. He showed me the microflex has "inch more" insulation between the outside of the pipe and the pipe itself inside , than my logstor has. Oh well, live and learn. Also the Microflex is alot easier to bend. For what it's worth to give you a nice install for all your efforts and money. Hope this helps . I had a woodmaster and can only say it treated me fine too.
Charlie

[rross]

No other problems,  but chasing leaks around the back of the boiler can be a challenge, because it is welded from the back side, not inside the drum.  Good luck, I will pass on Wood master next time!

[zipper]

AirForcePOL  I know you think I am a real ass and so does Willie. You didn't listen to me in the last post and I am sure you won't this time, but here goes anyway. Make sure you know what you are getting your self into before you spend your money. Number one have you ever cut a lot of wood ? Go out and cut a truck load and I don't mean an S10 chevy load either, I'm talking a 3/4 ton truck,all you can stack on it. Now go do this 30 more times and you have enough to get you through the winter. Also know that you have to feed the stove whether you want to or not or it will freeze up. If you get sick like the flu, tough, you still have to feed it. If you want to go somewhere in the winter, tough, someone has to feed the stove. If you run short on wood,tough,you still have to feed the stove, You said you wanted a warentee when you talked to me but in the above post you said you heard the warentee wasn't any good anyway. Well I never had to use the warentee but I am a welder by trade so I probably wouldn't have called them anyway. If the dealer is trying to sell you that cheapo bubble wraped pipe for $3.00 a foot, you better re think that. Good foam insulated under ground pipe run's between $9.00 and $13.00 a foot depending on where you buy it. Ross told you the truth about the unit's being welded on the outside and not the inside, I really don't know why they do it this way. This does not mean it will leak. All of these OWB's are basically the same, nothing more than a tank welded inside of another tank with a door. You build a fire and heat up water. Your Question about the fan, yes the fan comes on to rise the water temp to the preset you have programed into the electronic control. This stuff isn't rocket science, you build a fire and heat water. They are all over priced in my opinion. This is low tech stuff. Most of the people that buy one would be better off spending the money on insulation, better windows,a high efficiency furnace or what ever. The items I just mentioned will raise the value of your home. An outdoor boiler rising the value is questionable at best. And on one last note,no one is going to ban more insulation or better windows in your house. Probably a lot less arguments with the wife on how the money was spent too. One  final note, if you want to heat a house , a garage and a driveway, you better get a lot bigger unit than the 4400.     

[willieG]

never said you were an ass..and what you have stated has more truth in it than not..as i have posted in many messages before...i am not sure if you neeed quite that much wood..but i do feel you will need (within a cord or two either way) 8 to 10 bush cords and yes i have posted and agree with you...perhaps spending 6 to 10 grand (you would spend on your OWB) on weather proofing your home will (and can) bring your heating bill down to a managable amount

as for freezing your stove..well you can use an antifreeze solution so that wont happen (more expense)
also ..most folks keep their original heat system so if you get sick or run out of wood you can just let your original heater take over
and if you don't have anitfreeze in your stove and it is only water and you get sick or run out of wood...darin the stove..its only water

there are many reasons not to buy an OWB and only a few to buy one...think it over carefully

you need to be able to get cheap wood
you need equipment to harvest that wood
you need time
you need health

you may be lucky enough to be able to buy your wood for a reasonable price
wood in my area can still be had for under 200 dollars a cord..if you used 10 cord ..would 2000 dollars be less than you are paying for heat now?


as i said zipper i don't consider you an ass...but you keep telling me i do.... and eventually i will

i think all the points you mentioned are good ones...but i also think you learned them too late (after some dealer sucked you into buying one)

[willieG]

sorry for not proof reading...i meant  drain the stove if it is just water