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[Scott7m]

Yea let's openly support fraud....   It's ok to like your stove!  But to openly say it's ok for companies to fraudulently do business is wrong.  Where do you draw the line?  When the fraud doesn't benefit you? 

[brink1963]

In an earlier post I asked the question about how the EPA tested the OWBs for a efficiency rating. I really was not trying to get to the method involved, I was basically getting at how could they determine the efficiency(more of a philosophical question) They can do a test and say OWB "A" gets more BTUs then OWB "B" from the same amount of wood but if I only spend $200 for gas and I save $2000 by not buying propane, I would think that the EPA formula would need to be: total BTUs from wood burned/ total BTUs available from $200 of unleaded gas that I used to get the wood. Because the wood I burned grew without any help from non renewable sources.

It is kind of like saying one solar panel  is 12% efficient and another is 14% efficient, because all the energy collected from the sun is free so if the input energy is more or less free who cares?

[swede]

No tax credit for me.....just sayin

[RSI]

If you purchased a Shaver and got the tax credit, you did nothing wrong. The way it was written all you needed was a certificate from the manufacturer that said it met the requirements.

The tax credit had nothing to do with epa testing. Anyone could do it. There are approximately 8500 btu's in a pound of wood. It you burn a pound of wood and 4250 btu's are transferred into the water then it is 50% efficient. Nothing else is important. Some companies that had the certificate for the tax credit spend a lot of money having a 3rd party do the testing. How accurate their test were is questionable but apparently Shaver just said theirs were without doing any testing.

On solar panels there is so much energy available. If a panel is 12% efficient it just means it was able to collect 12% of the solar energy that hits it. All it does for you having more efficient solar panels is you use up less space.

[brink1963]

I agree with Mark Twain.

[willieG]

[]

On solar panels there is so much energy available. If a panel is 12% efficient it just means it was able to collect 12% of the solar energy that hits it. All it does for you having more efficient solar panels is you use up less space.
[/quote]
less space means less panels means less cost to produce the energy

i am getting paid 80 cents per kiliwatt hour i prouce. if my panels are 14 percent and my neighbors are 12 percent and we have the same amount of panels and they cost the same amount to install i will produce more KW hours in the same amount of sunlight as him ... efficiency is profit

wood is the same...if we are both cutting wood, it is free..but the cost to aquire that wood is not. i burn 10 loads and your stove is more efficient and you only burn 7 i have that added cost of what it costs to go and retrieve that other 3 loads...truck , tractor whatever i use to transport..wear ontthe saw , gas..ect.   efficiency is savings

my stove likley sucks in efficiency but it is what i could make my self at the time. perhaps i will make a more efficient one next time around but also i will look at the intial cost and how long it will take to recoup that cost..efficiency costs up front. many of us cant afford it but the government is saying..if you cant afford it then you can pay the big guys monthly for the crap they are polluting with because they pay the pollution tax

[RSI]

[]
i am getting paid 80 cents per kiliwatt hour i prouce. if my panels are 14 percent and my neighbors are 12 percent and we have the same amount of panels and they cost the same amount to install i will produce more KW hours in the same amount of sunlight as him ... efficiency is profit

What do you mean by same amount? Same rate wattage or same sq coverage? If you and your neighbor have the same wattage of panels they will make the same amount of power. His being less efficient just means his are covering more area.

I was referring to the tax credit about the efficiency of wood boilers.

[RSI]

I agree with Mark Twain.

[willieG]

What do you mean by same amount? Same rate wattage or same sq coverage? If you and your neighbor have the same wattage of panels they will make the same amount of power. His being less efficient just means his are covering more area.

I was referring to the tax credit about the efficiency of wood boilers.

our systems are both rated on the name plate as 10 kw  we both have the same amount of square footage in area however my panels are of one make and his are of another , my panels are slightly rated more efficent than his so my panel (in the same amount of sun) reach that maximum output of 10 kwph sooner than his and they produce at that maximum output longer

[brink1963]

What was the tax credit? When I bought my Shaver 165 last August my dealer said I could get $300, which is the tax credit anyone can get for a pellet burning wood stove.

[Scott7m]

What was the tax credit? When I bought my Shaver 165 last August my dealer said I could get $300, which is the tax credit anyone can get for a pellet burning wood stove.

Well it applies to stoves that are 75% efficient which pellet stoves are, your shaver however is not.  This is what the IRS is onto them about.  Last year the credit was 1500, this year it's only 300.  But either way, it really don't qualify

[brink1963]

What is the Shaver efficiency rating, if you know it?

[Scott7m]

Based on similar designs I'm guessing 45% or so...we did some numbers for ridgkids central boiler and it was 48%

I've checked hardy's in the upper 30's

[MD20/20]

and the rest....?

[Scott7m]

My standard ncb 175 I think was around 52-54 last year when I ran it... 

I think my heatmaster 5000e is likely close to 60 based on some quick calculations, very similar to what your 325g would come in at...