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526

Central Boiler / Re: New to site-Buying a Cl 5036

« on: April 04, 2011, 03:24:08 PM »

Would you mind if I re-quoted that? I had to re-read it a few times before I could fully grasp the meaning. It's actually a great perception on how we all should view our lives. I just read it to my wife and she rolled her eyes at me and went on to explain how old she thinks I am getting. Thanks,
   Marty

527

Central Boiler / Re: New to site-Buying a Cl 5036

« on: April 03, 2011, 06:00:11 PM »

I like that saying at the bottom of your posts. Who originally came up with that?
   Marty

528

HeatMaster / Re: G200

« on: March 31, 2011, 05:35:38 PM »

LOL, that was an unfortunate mistake.

How was it that you made that mistake,and not me? That is something that I usually do. Nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks one way but types the other. I read that twice this morning, but never caught it.

529

Shaver Furnace / Re: Earth owb not a shaver but almost exactly like it ...anyone look at one?

« on: March 30, 2011, 05:42:58 PM »

Hey Yoder- I guess I would have to disagree with you(respectfully,of course) about wall thickness. When the majority of these boilers start leaking,they tend to leak into the firebox from the boiler. If one had to be a little thicker than the other, I guess I would prefer that the combustion chamber be a bit thicker. Welding on the outside of a boiler is much easier than the inside of a baffled firebox. I think a quarter inch fire box is about perfect, and I would think one could easily get by with 3/16 boiler- as long as the water quality is kept in check. The CB that I seen back in December had rusted through the firebox and into the boiler. I believe they know what they're talking about when they tell you to thoroughly clean the firebox out and make sure and put a bucket over the exhaust(water plus ashes makes a great metal acid etcher). After all the water ran out,they poked the hole out much larger, thinking they might be able to patch it, and shined a flashlight in and looked at the boiler wall bottom. After 9 full seasons the inside of the boiler looked new. That's my .02 anyway.

530

Home Made / Re: Gasification wood boiler build

« on: March 30, 2011, 05:02:22 PM »

You can get the smoke to burn, but the hard part is recovering some of the gasified heat.I actually introduced super heated air into my old burner just behind the baffle(not water cooled) and I could easily get it to burn the smoke,and my wood consumption went down a bit, but it drove me nuts not being able to recover that extra heat. My stack temps were always in the 800- 1000* range. Although they've never complained, I'm sure my neighbors were very happy when that conversion took place.

531

HeatMaster / Re: G200

« on: March 29, 2011, 07:53:34 PM »

You guy's really need to find someone who owns a gasifier and go take a look at it under full gasification. They are so cool to watch operate. I was a little bored at work about 6 or 8 weeks ago and I took an hour or so and built a rocket stove. They are a natural updraft gasifier. You can't believe how hot they get. After about 15 minutes of operation my infrared thermometer won't even take a reading(907*F upper limit). If you have a good, modern, conventional boiler with a lot of heat transfer area, you will cut your wood consumption by real close to half(roughly 45% in my case) with a gasifier. I agree with NCredneck about the thermal efficiencies of the old and the new ones. They all make impossible claims. When mine is under full load, it is supposed to be operating at 2000*. I've checked my exhaust temperature and it's at just over 300*. That's already a 15 percent loss. There are also many more factors involved, and in my mind the most important one would be boiling out the moisture present in the wood. I don't remember the numbers, so I'll apologize in advance, but I think a pound of wood contains about 8500 BTU's(dry). At 20% moisture it takes around 17 or 18% of the available BTU's to boil out the water. Even if we say that number is 15% and you tack on another 15% going up the exhaust, in my book that puts you down to about 70% at best. That's a far more realistic as far as I'm concerned.
       
 

532

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Steel Prices Soaring?????

« on: March 27, 2011, 07:46:57 PM »

Had a conversation with one of the guys from this site about stove manufacturers  raising their prices in reaction to steel prices possibly going up. I picked up some metal from my local iron man that same afternoon and asked him if he could tell me what he paid for steel verses what he charges me. He said that he paid .549/lb, and makes .18/lb off from me. If he gets steel that cheap, then what do these larger wood boiler manufacturers pay for it?.If we assume they pay the same as him, which I'm sure they don't, then a 2000/lb stove would have $1100 worth of steel in it, right? If prices go up 10%, that would be $110, 20%- $220, 30%- 330, etc. What are the percentages you all have heard from your local dealers that boilers could go up? Sorta sounds like some kind of sales tactic to me. Can you guys tell I'm bored and not in the mood for animation domination tonight?(FOX 66). My new build is coming along well. Sent out some phone pictures and videos to friends and family, but I haven't the foggiest idea how to put them on here. Trying to figure out what font face and font size mean, as well as how to incorporate some of those little yellow faces in without erasing everything I've typed so far. Maybe next time.
   Marty

533

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: WOOD USAGE

« on: March 26, 2011, 11:22:03 AM »

Around here a cord has always been 4'X4'X8'. A face cord has always been 4'X8'X16"- or one third of a full cord. I was visiting a friend of mine a few weeks ago and he showed me how much wood he throws in his CB 6048 once a day. He then showed me the area in his wood shed  where he had been burning from. This area measured 8' tall X 10' wide and 20' long. In our neck of the woods that amounts to 12.5 full cords, or 37.5 face cords. In his mind, a face cord is 4' X 8' by whatever length you prefer to cut it at. He cuts his at 2' EXACTLY. Therefore the area that he has burned already in his wood shed amounted to 25 face cords as far as he's concerned. He and I always joke around about what's what as far as face cords are concerned. He thinks I'm wrong, and I know he is. I started burning Oct. 1st and so far have burned about 6 FULL cords, or 18 face cords. I'm very happy with my consumption since I bought my gasifier(installed Jan. 30th). I only burn about 55- 60 percent of what I did with my old one. Next year I should go through about 45% less wood. In my friend's defense, the underground pipe he buried in '01 was horribly inefficient, so we always figured he is going through WAY more wood than he should. The ground over the line almost never freezes.
   Marty
   

534

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is this an easy decision?

« on: March 23, 2011, 05:15:46 PM »

I own an Empyre, my father-in law has the CB6048, a friend has a NC, not sure what model number. You'd think I'd be biased, but I'm not. I have done boat loads of research like it sounds like you have, and from what I've seen and read, the Portage and Main is by far the best Wood boiler out there. I drove down to Louisville Ky. about 5 weeks ago and looked at every manufacturer there, and the Portage and Main guys were the only ones who gave realistic efficiency ratings for their units. Some of the manufacturers actually want you to believe that their boilers will get more than 90% thermal efficiencies out of their gasifiers and as high as 75% out of their non-gasifier units. (one dealer actually told me that theirs tested at 107% at the EPA test site) Anyone on this site can tell you that that is simply not possible unless you started with wood that is at 0% moisture. Brian with Portage and Main(I don't know what position he holds with the company) gave me and everyone else that was in attendance realistic expectations of what today's modern boilers can achieve. As far as efficiencies are concerned, there isn't squat for difference between any of the top 5 or 6 players, so to me an investment like this has to boil(pun intended) down to construction and manufacturer support. The Portage and Mains are easy to work on if you have to, and the way they are welded together is better than any that I've come across. At the end of this burning season I am going to get rid of my Pro 100 and drive more than 100 miles to buy a Portage and Main. That's if spring ever gets here!
   That's my 5 cents.
P.S. Anyone interested in a 6 month old Empyre Pro Series 100?
   Marty

535

General Discussion / Re: 1 Year Old Today!

« on: March 20, 2011, 09:01:37 PM »

Thanks for all the hard work maintaining this site. My favorite site used to be the antique tractor pulling discussion board. Not any more!
   Marty

536

General Discussion / Re: AC off of OWB??

« on: March 20, 2011, 08:58:08 PM »

Do you know of anyone who might make a kit for us do-it-yourselfers to install? It sure would be nice to break free from those $250/mo. Consumers Energy bills in the summer.

537

Home Made / Re: propane tank owb

« on: March 19, 2011, 06:51:15 AM »

Your tank selection should suit you just fine IF you don't mind loading twice/day and sometimes three when it's very cold. I built two boilers 4 years ago using 24 inch for burn chamber (.375 ductile iron well pipe) 4 feet long with baffle 4 inches from rear and 4.5 inches off bottom. The boiler was 36 inch (.250 well pipe) and 5 feet long. The doors are 24 inches and are water cooled. We wish now that we would have made them gasifiers. I've since bought a used gasifier(in Junuary) and found out first hand how much less wood they actually burn.  There are so many variables involved when doing a project like this, such as house sq. ft., windows(single or double), ceiling height, insulation, distance from house, type of insulated pipe used, etc. . Using the diameter pipe you have and making it a gasifier should be about a perfect size for the average house. Do yourself a favor and make sure and buy the very best underground pipe you can find. I'm not a big CB fan, but I think they carry about the best insulated pipe on the market, but it isn't cheap. I think I paid about $13/ft. four years ago. I am on my way to start my next new project(a gasifier twice the size of my Empyre) right now. Wife is not real happy about that. Good luck and keep us posted.
   Marty

 
 

538

Home Made / Re: Gasification wood boiler build

« on: March 08, 2011, 03:38:02 PM »

Did you ever get a chance to measure your exhaust gas temperature? My goal with mine will be around 250 f. under full gasification. If my metal gets bent and my pipe truck shows up before this weekend I should be able to start welding Sat. morning.
   Marty

539

Home Made / Re: Gasification wood boiler build

« on: March 06, 2011, 05:14:59 AM »

Mornin' Jackel. I was up till after midnight last night reading all your posts and watching the video's. I'll jump on the bandwagon and let you know cool it is that you built your own boiler, especially with the help of your kids and encouragement of your wife. Awesome job! This morning I got up and went way back in the threads and tried to figure out how as best I could how many cubic feet of wood your new baby holds. Looks like it's somewhere between 12 and about 16. I've got a little Empyre Pro Series 100 and it holds about 5 cu. ft. I've got to load it twice a day, sometimes three times, but a face cord still lasts me on average more than 2 weeks. I like everything about it, I just wish my firebox was as big as yours. Once again, awesome job! When my new fab gets out of the prototype stage, I'll have my little brother show me how to post pictures and show ya'll some of my ideas on a gasifier. (My little brother is 6'3'' and 220 and 41 years old- and infinately more wise than me when it comes to electronics).
   Take care,
   Marty

540

Electronics / Re: What Temp.

« on: March 02, 2011, 02:03:41 PM »

I've owned two owb's now and I seem to burn less wood and form much less tar and creosote by keeping both temps up on the high side. My primary combustion chamber stays cleaner as well as the secondary burn chamber and heat transfer tubes. Mine comes on at 177 and shuts off at 185. The refractory brick seems to maintain enough heat so that when the system calls for heat the smoke lights off within 30 seconds or less. Less smoke equals happier neighbors as well as very little smoke seeping through the cracks of my old two story house. I've played with many different combos over the years and higher is what I've found works best for a gasifier, with a small differential. My current furnace is a puny little Pro Series 100. It's amazing what that little fart can do on such a miserly little amount of wood.    Marty