Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Advanced Electronics => Topic started by: mlappin on January 01, 2018, 08:49:04 AM
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This was brought up on a Facebook group, appears it would work very well for OWB applications.
I’ve been looking close at the ones that can have a thermocouple connected to it, place it at the breach of the G200 and monitor stack temps wirelessly.
https://store.wirelesstag.net/products/outdoor-probe-thermocouple
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I was using my BBQ thermometer to monitor stack times and it was working fine until I got down to about -10 to -15 at night and then the wireless device that sits at the stove started to act really funny so I went back to the dial thermometer in the stack for now.
I wish I had any kind of internet or wireless service in my area I would really like to do some data logging but unfortunately that is out of the question for me
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You should buy one of those Marty and let me know how it works. I'm seriously considering it but already have way too much $100 junk laying around that I can't use lol
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I’m seriously looking, really looking at the outdoor unit that’s thermocouple compatible. I could mount that in the breach of the G200 then could mount the outdoor temp probe on a pole that’s roughly 8 foot from the boiler so as not to skew true outdoor temp readings. They claim the tags can be placed ina.freezer even, I’m wondering if you can still get a signal if I used four of em in the back of the G200 to monitor supply and return temps for both the house and shop.
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I’m seriously looking, really looking at the outdoor unit that’s thermocouple compatible. I could mount that in the breach of the G200 then could mount the outdoor temp probe on a pole that’s roughly 8 foot from the boiler so as not to skew true outdoor temp readings. They claim the tags can be placed ina.freezer even, I’m wondering if you can still get a signal if I used four of em in the back of the G200 to monitor supply and return temps for both the house and shop.
I was wondering that myself... I spent hours reading what the parent company had to say about their garden variety of tags and their functions, but was unable to really find much of anything in terms of real-life experience. They made it sound like the ones in the freezer were even able to sense when the door was opened up due to the temp change, they didn't even have to move, which I found incredible. Seems like an awesome product
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I was using my BBQ thermometer to monitor stack times and it was working fine until I got down to about -10 to -15 at night and then the wireless device that sits at the stove started to act really funny so I went back to the dial thermometer in the stack for now.
I wish I had any kind of internet or wireless service in my area I would really like to do some data logging but unfortunately that is out of the question for me
How are you posting here?
The tag manager handles the wifi signal from the tags….
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I was using my BBQ thermometer to monitor stack times and it was working fine until I got down to about -10 to -15 at night and then the wireless device that sits at the stove started to act really funny so I went back to the dial thermometer in the stack for now.
I wish I had any kind of internet or wireless service in my area I would really like to do some data logging but unfortunately that is out of the question for me
How are you posting here?
The tag manager handles the wifi signal from the tags….
From my cell phone or work internet.
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I take that back, we do have the option of satellite internet but it is ridiculously expensive and the service is spotty at best
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I take that back, we do have the option of satellite internet but it is ridiculously expensive and the service is spotty at best
Yep, one disadvantage of living out in the sticks. But I can even get DSL out here, but it sucks, supposed to be 3mb but I haven’t seen that in years.
We have a wireless service here that is about everywhere now, but they couldn’t find a decent signal here, told em to get out of the van with it’s itty bitty mast and shimmy his ass up one of the silo’s like the operations manager said he would. There's no way if they get 80 foot off the ground that they won’t be able to find the same signal that the neighbor is on half mile away.
Something you can look into depending on your wireless service is to add a LTE hotspot as another line. I’ve seen speeds better than cable with mine.
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So ordered the outdoor probe with thermocouple, five 13bit tags and the logger today.
I’ll be the guinea pig I guess.
Where is the honest place to mount the thermocouple? I’ve heard slim refer to several times it should be at the breach of a boiler. I’m thinking right where the square housing terminates in the round part of housing that the stack mounts on. That'd place it about 4-5” above the fan impeller.
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I mounted mine right above the bridge.. About 2"
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The bridge??
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The bridge or seam where my stack goes into the short piece of stack that was already on the atove
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The bridge or seam where my stack goes into the short piece of stack that was already on the atove
Gotcha, I’m thinking keeping it inside the rear housing, my OCD won’t allow it to be outside where it can be seen
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I'm excited to hear how it works Marty! Where are you putting the other 4?
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On the supply and returns of the stove
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Shop, duh. Nevermind lol
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Sure am glad I paid for express shipping, looks like it will only take about a week for the USPS to get my stuff here >:(
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Gonna be one of those things where it comes from Chicago and drives right by you to take a trip to Arizona and make a stop in Dallas before it gets to your house?
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Gonna be one of those things where it comes from Chicago and drives right by you to take a trip to Arizona and make a stop in Dallas before it gets to your house?
Probably.
I ordered a manual from Michigan once, left there, went right thru South bend, ended up in Indy, from there it made it out to California, then back to Michigan. Took about a month to get it, it seen more of the USA that I have.
Post Office needs to stick to delivering the mail and Playboys.
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I ordered a blank plate for my skid steer off of amazon and it shipped from a a vendor a few towns away, and it took a week to get here. Had I known where it was coming from I would have driven there to pick it up! What a waste of time and money 💰
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I ordered a blank plate for my skid steer off of amazon and it shipped from a a vendor a few towns away, and it took a week to get here. Had I known where it was coming from I would have driven there to pick it up! What a waste of time and money 💰
Yup. I used to rent Sea Doo and Tigershark watercrafts out for extra cash as a kid, maybe 19 or 20. As you can imagine they always came back broken, so I ordered a whole pile of consumables like sponsons, starters, impellers, etc from a guy on eBay on a Sunday night when 3 machines came back broken and all 5 of mine were rented out for the following weekend already so I needed the parts quick. Fast forward 2 days I'm getting nervous so I checked the tracking #, all my stuff was in Texas. The shipper lived 45 miles from me, in central MN. Needless to say I had some bad scrambles the next couple days trying to find 2 starters and a wear ring for '98 Sea Doo XP. Ended up driving halfway across the state and paying double just to get those things on the water by Friday. Stupid FedEx
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I’ve always had good luck with with UPS, don’t usually get stuff Fed Ex. USPS sucks for the most part. Only time we were supposed to get something DHL they lost a very rare part for a combine, called Combine World back, and got literally the last shaft in North America for that combine, told em absolutely no way were they to ship it DHL. About six months later UPS delivered the part that DHL lost.
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On certain things I find UPS to be very expensive. SpeeDee is the cat's meow if it's within their range as they don't go nationwide, but often times FedEx is less than half the price of UPS. Small items go USPS every time and I've had real good luck with them myself, plus they're cheap, with small items. UPS seems to be fastest though. PexUniverse sends all their stuff FedEx and it always takes a week or more to get 1200 miles. Kinda drives me nuts
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Most of the time if I order by 4pm from Supplyhouse UPS has it here the next day.
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Yup! I just ordered from SupplyHouse this morning and got the shipped notification 45 minutes later. Gonna be here Monday. They're obviously closer, but most of the time is a 1-2 day delivery from them with UPS while FedEx from NY is over a week. Gotten plenty of stuff from the East Coast with UPS in 2-3 days
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MLK on Monday, not sure who will be working and who won't.
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Update tracking says it will be delivered today, we shall see.
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It all showed up today, still playing around with the wireless settings to see if I can get it to read shop temps in the back of the stove. I may have to add an outlet and a ethernet jack at the office window so the tag manager is looking directly at the stove. Didn’t get a chance to mount the thermocouple in the stove either, I have a feeling it’s going to be too short to get a honest reading. Spent way too much time today trying to hook up this monstrosity of an air handler only to find they didn’t drain it near well enough when it was taken out of service. First was full of sludge, was hooked to a Woodmaster 5500 for who knows how long, had to take the air hose to get it loose as absolutely could not get the pump to prime, unhooked the return at the stove so all the muddy water wouldn’t end up there, got a ton of black/brown water out then wondered why the flow wasn’t better, half the water was going on the shop floor.
https://my.wirelesstag.net/eth/tempStatsMulti.html?099cdf3e-f47f-4d18-9608-f0fbeb3290c0:74d56d78-1c32-44e0-8d2c-e775115a002d:c1a45997-47fe-4e38-a8cb-21a2479f4460&temperature&F
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All four sensors are up and running, I have a fifth under the porch on the back side of a post.
I think I’ll have one tag for both Shop and House supply as they read identical on the gauges anyways. If I can get a signal out of the shop I may use the Shop supply tag to monitor the waste oil boiler water temp going into the flat plate.
The temp sensor is on the wee little circuit board of course so there is lag for temp changes to register, I plopped the tags right into a bed of thermal mastic, zip tied them into place, then wrapped with a foam insulation. I would prefer a foil faced insulation like I normally use on probes, but I’m sure that would kill the wifi signal, especially coming from the stove. In order to set the ones up for the boiler I had to leave the rear door open to get em to authorize and calibrate, once they are working they’ll still report temperature but you can’t change any settings with the door shut.
Given the lag in readings I think to get em calibrated well a person needs no load on either loop for at least 30 minutes to allow temps to stabilize then calibrate the sensors.
Latest graph, some of it isn’t usable as I recalibrated tags.
https://my.wirelesstag.net/eth/tempStatsMulti.html?099cdf3e-f47f-4d18-9608-f0fbeb3290c0:74d56d78-1c32-44e0-8d2c-e775115a002d:c1a45997-47fe-4e38-a8cb-21a2479f4460:190b30d5-3eb7-4fb3-887c-cf46a51a7fe9:a83c53c3-438e-4524-8efa-cc665be675f2&temperature&F
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Well was monitoring stack temps briefly, don’t waste the money on getting the probe they supply with the outdoor unit, won’t take the heat.
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Love it Marty. You have a heavy heat load. Looking at the house supply loop you can see how often it has to cycle. Looks like between an hour and 15 mins to an hour and 30 mins you are cycling. Cycling every 1.5 hours your are using 22,000 btu per hour.
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Love it Marty. You have a heavy heat load. Looking at the house supply loop you can see how often it has to cycle. Looks like between an hour and 15 mins to an hour and 30 mins you are cycling. Cycling every 1.5 hours your are using 22,000 btu per hour.
Hehe, supposed to snow a bunch tomorrow, the snow melt outa be interesting to have charted.
I also have a hybrid system on the water heater out of curiosity. I have a small sidearm with the twisted tube center, looks like a screw or auger. Also have a flat plate on the outlet of the water heater. I’m tempted to close the valve on the sidearm and see how hot water usage effects the chart.
I’m tempted to move the shop return out of the stove and put it in the shop, signal strength is the same but I think the ambient temp in the back of the stove messes with the tags. I’d prefer a foil faced insulation to wrap em with but I know that’d kill the wifi signal. The ones in the basement are staying calibrated well since the ambient air temp remains constant.
The tags aren’t the quickest to adjust to temp changes, the circuit board is spaced between the front and back with the temp sensor on the board. A few I mounted with a dollop of thermal mastic on the back, another few I mounted the front to the pipe as it has tiny holes for the speakers, down’t really notice one being any better than the other. If a person wanted really accurate temps four outdoor temp units could be used with an immersion thermocouple for each one.
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Looks awesome Marty!!! Very cool! DHW effect my logging like crazy! I use a flat plate...let me see if I can upload a pic...
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I went ahead and moved the last tag out of the back of the G200 and into the shop.
Had to recalibrate both shop sensors so if you see a big spike thats why. On the waste oil one I may have to take it back off and scotch brite the pipe then reinstall.
1” black pipe insulation seems to be working well in the shop, one piece on bottom opened up to cover the pipe and the sides of the tag, another piece from the top down stretched out to cover the tag, then a zip strap on each end to close it up and make it draft proof.
I may have to move the outdoor tag as high up under the porch as possible or maybe move it to the front porch which is on the north side of the house, once the sun came up it read higher than it should have, night time temps were pretty right on.
https://my.wirelesstag.net/eth/tempStatsMulti.html?099cdf3e-f47f-4d18-9608-f0fbeb3290c0:74d56d78-1c32-44e0-8d2c-e775115a002d:c1a45997-47fe-4e38-a8cb-21a2479f4460:190b30d5-3eb7-4fb3-887c-cf46a51a7fe9:a83c53c3-438e-4524-8efa-cc665be675f2&temperature&F
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Turned the snow mel on about 9”30 this morning, once the sidewalk and the glycol is all warm the differential tightens up.
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I’m starting to realize the tags have some inherent issues, not necessarily design flaws as I’m sure the designers weren’t thinking of strapping them to a pipe.
The circuit board is sandwiched between the top case and the removable bottom. The pipe has to heat the plastic, the plastic heats the air and the air finally heats the temp sensor. I’m of the strong opinion now that you can calibrate them for the high or the low temp, but they won’t be accurate on both. I recalibrated the House and Shop Supply one for 180, I waited till the stove shut off, then waited till I seen the temp tick down to 179, recalibrated the sensor to read 179.5, problem is know after looking at the chart overnight it never dropped below 165 or so, I think the case holds too much residual heat.
If your just looking for something simple to warn you if the water dropped below a certain temp this will do it, if you want accuracy to help figure load or efficiency I think they’re better options available, using one of the outdoor ones with a sensor that can be strapped to the pipe then wrapped in foil insulation would be MUCh more accurate and responsive, but also more spendy.
Not a complete waste of money though, I dropped the outside tag into the basement chest freezer and it reads that fine, will set the reporting down to once an hour to increase battery life, gonna drop another one in the little chest freezer we store veggies in. Have a fresh half a beef in the large one.
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Thanks for being the guinea pig Marty, sorry it's not as accurate as we'd both hoped for this application. At least you can use the tags for other things!
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Thanks for being the guinea pig Marty, sorry it's not as accurate as we'd both hoped for this application. At least you can use the tags for other things!
I’m thinking of activating the motion sensors and using them for a down and dirty security system on the shop. One on the main man door and another on the door between the shop area and storage area, one or the other has to be opened to unlock the large equipment door.
The ones that use an external sensor are a lot more accurate as the sensor is external and can be placed anyplace you want.
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Any/all of those sensors have a motion setting?
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Any/all of those sensors have a motion setting?
I know the tags do, not sure about the outdoor models.
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I’m seriously looking at the Raspberry Pi’s, from what I’ve seen so far numerous sensors for supply and return temps can be ran off it as well as numerous thermocouples to monitor lets say reaction and stack temps.
Pi Zero W goes for ten bucks, the amplifier boards are $14, thermocouples and sensors are cheap on Amazon. Best part is the Pi Zero W has built in Wifi.
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Got to talking to a friend who’s bread and butter is sitting at home pounding away on a keyboard or whatever code monkeys do, if I can build it he can handle the coding.
If I can see it and physically touch it I can make it work, code makes my head throb.
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The wireless tags have been in the freezers for awhile and are still working.
The raspberry pi’s worked very well, however the drag and drop interface I was using sucks. Cayenne is the name, was pretty stable then they forced an update, if you didn’t update then your stuff quit working thru the cayenne interface. So I did the update, as with most updates it broke everything, so started over, finally got everything working again only to have to reload or refresh things all the time because their supposed upgrade sucked.
If a person has the ability to write their own interface from scratch then the raspberry Pi zero’s at 5-10 bucks a pop are they way to go.