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47
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Some pics of my setup
« on: November 09, 2017, 04:12:52 PM »
Nice shed! 
48
Advanced Electronics / Re: Anyone running an x300 for monitoring??
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:05:20 PM »I finally placed my order for an x320!! Excited to get it setup and running for this winter. Of course they announced the new x410 like 2 hours after I placed my order with a reseller through eBay, but I can always upgrade if I out grow the x320. I'll update as I get it installed and running.What about running a mySQL database and logging all your thermocouples there and incorporating queries into your web page?
Looks like they also have an adaptor to use Type-K Thermocouples with the new x410 as well!! Figures, after over a year of planning they release the cool new stuff the day after I place my order for the x320.
Running a MAX6675 and an Arduino to log to the database is fairly easy. You can run quite a few MAX6675 thermocouple ADCs on a Uno or more of a Mega.
Got it rigged up so you can do as many thermocouples into your Arduino as you want.
Neal
49
Advanced Electronics / Re: Heatmor PLC
« on: October 23, 2017, 05:58:28 PM »HiCan you take a picture of it?
Does anyone know what the brand name of the plc heatmore uses in the 400 ss model.
I bought this outside boiler in 2012.
Help on the programing software would also be great as I could convert it over to a different brand if need be.
50
General Discussion / Re: Compressor tank - Repairable?
« on: October 01, 2017, 11:01:03 AM »
Why not drill/tap it out to the next size for a plug?
51
Advanced Plumbing / Re: Diagrams of primary/secondary loops
« on: October 01, 2017, 10:36:56 AM »
Log into your admin panel for the hosting, add a new FTP user. Then download an app for FTP, enter the new user creds, and log in. I created a few folders for different sites that I visit so the documents are seperate across the server.
You can also set up a windows link to your FTP site.
https://helpdesk.egnyte.com/hc/en-us/articles/201637914-FTP-access-through-Windows-Explorer
What company do you host with?
You can also set up a windows link to your FTP site.
https://helpdesk.egnyte.com/hc/en-us/articles/201637914-FTP-access-through-Windows-Explorer
What company do you host with?
52
Advanced Plumbing / Re: Diagrams of primary/secondary loops
« on: October 01, 2017, 07:13:55 AM »Okay, officially Amazon Drive does not support third party hosting of images, technically Google doesn’t either, as those could possibly break at any time. Flickr does if you leave the link in that takes you back to Flickr, this is up in the air as Verizon bought Yahoo which owns Flickr, those links may break at anytime if Verizon or Yahoo decides to be c*nts like Photobucket. I’m seriously tempted to use some of the space I have left for the hosting of my business site and use that for third party hosting.All I use is my FTP for hosting. AndFTP app on the phone for mobile use.
53
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Ice melt
« on: September 23, 2017, 05:28:11 PM »We just did a G100 where the customer had some 1/2" loops stubbed out of his carport slab for snow melt. He wants to hook up later. Right now we just did the house with infloor and forced air.You could ramp up on the flow rate a little more than recommended if you are stuck with 1/2". Could calculate out to 4.5 f/s or so and see what pump you would need for that flow rate, and what head loss you end up with in the loop. If you are short enough you my be ok.
What lengths are max on 1/2 Pex on snow melt to avoid too large of a deltaT? I'm assuming the problem is uneven snow melt.? I'm not concerned about low return water temps to the furnace as it has separate stirring pump on the rest of the unit to keep things a reasonably even temp in the tank.
I can see where larger lines would allow longer loops in a snowmelt system but I would think 1/2" would be OK for small areas?
We run into snow melt pretty rarely down here so I like these threads.
I like mlappin's using a small open tank for expansion. Would basically act just like a furnace water jacket if you pump away from that point.
55
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Ice melt
« on: September 23, 2017, 05:29:05 AM »I am starting a new topic since the other is way off the original.Andifreeze for sure, however you want to keep the slab idled say 40*, and use high GPM and highest temperature possible (of your temper) when ramping up for quick melt. 1/2" tubing isn't the best choice for snow/ice melt as you want to have massive GPM movement though the system with minimal delta T.
I have a customer that put some tubing in his sidewalk (two 1/2" loops) and wants to use it to melt ice.
I have never set any up before. I would assume you need to use tempered glycol at a lower temp to protect the concrete and not draw too much heat from the OWB. The last reply in the other thread said not to use tempered water. It seems like it would be a huge heat load running full temp water into the concrete.
This is going to be connected to a HeatMaster G100.
57
Advanced Plumbing / Re: Primary/Secondary system design
« on: September 22, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »Than you for the detailed response.The ZV999 is a 3 way zone valve that will redirect the second main loop back into the stove to keep the return water above the minimum set point. As you can see the two returns have thermocouples just before going back into the stove. That is what will determine if the valve needs to return the hot output directly back in the return, or if the returns are hot enough to provide service to the entire second main loop. It works like a boiler protection valve, and can be replaced with one instead of the zone valve. If you look just to the right of the pink and the T you will see a check valve that forces the flow back into the stove and prevents it from going down the cool return line. I don't anticipate a lot of movement of any valve that is used for boiler protection, as I have a Central Boiler Maxim M250 corn/pellet stove, and not a gasification stove. The M250 can turn down and idle when the high water temp set point has been reached.
I have been calling it an outdoor reset but what I think I mean is an automatic thermostatic mixing valve. I want to lower the temp of the water running through the concrete loops on warmer days and raise it on the cooler ones.
I am on the same page as you on keeping the boiler water at the high temp all the time.
I was hoping to use just one valve for multiple zones to try and cut down on the cost.
I am looking at your diagram for your dog kennel and have a few questions.
The primary/secondary loop going to the house and towel warmers makes sense to me but can you elaborate on the other loop going to the garage and dog kennel?
It looks like there is a mixing valve "ZV999" just after the pump in the primary loop..... and also one before the pump "TMV999" in the secondary zone.
Also do you have a special software to make these diagrams or just using autocad?
No problem on correcting my errors. I only want to do it once!
The TMV999 is a thermostatic mixing valve (I have not yet finished setting the labels numbers) to mix down the temp for the slab loop.
I am using Microsoft Visio, and some of the Caleffi stencils for it. If a stencil does't exist I use commonly used industry symbols (thermometer/flow meter, ect.)
58
Advanced Plumbing / Re: Forced air furnace for in floor heat?
« on: September 22, 2017, 11:41:52 AM »
Seems a bit unwise to use the same manifold set for snow melt as for in floor loops. The delta on that would be all whacked. You would want no mixdown for the snow melt, but you would for the in floor loops, so if you used the same manifold the snow melt would be very inefficient, with the low initial temp.
59
Advanced Plumbing / Re: Primary/Secondary system design
« on: September 22, 2017, 11:36:44 AM »I modified the drawing to show a series primary/secondary loop rather than the parallel that I had originally drawn per the recommendations. Drawing attached. Does anybody see any problems with this layout?That primary/secondary loop design looks much better.
I am still struggling to envision how I can use one outdoor reset to control the water temp for 2 different radiant heat zones.
The outdoor reset that I have seen in the past is one from Viega. Attached picture.
Thanks
However see below...First off, I apologize for not going over your first post a bit closer.
Now, as for the outside reset, I think you may want to reconsider using it at all. You may be far more happy if you use thermostatic mixing valves for your concrete loops, instead of trying to turn your OWB down so low as to have cool enough water for your loops. You will get a couple of major problems if you try to operate your OWB at such low temps, 80-120* depending on the BTU/sq. ft. you are aiming for.
Firstly, flue gas condensation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flue-gas_condensation ). Also check out idronics 10, page 8. One of the primary functions of the new gasification OWBs (your G200 is one) is to burn extremely HOT so as to fully and efficiently combust all the hydrocarbons possible. This is counter in theory to running the stove in a setback or turndown, from a reset. Reference idronics 7 p.9-10 & fig 3-5. This has even caused a bit of a paradigm shift in OWB use in general, With regular non-gasification stoves, you could damper down, and let the stove smolder away when everything was up to temp and no major BTUs were required. Since gasification stoves don't operate in the same turndown capable way, that smoldering style has given way to quick batch burn, and best when thermal storage is used. This is something you may consider implementing to replace the out door reset/turndown problem. The addition of a thermal storage tank will allow you to load up the G200, do an efficient, hot burn, and store all those BTUs in a tank. Reference idronics 10, p.28 fig. 6-12
Secondly, being that you may be unable to turn down the G200 far enough to have cool enough water for the loops, they will end up overshooting your BTU/sq. ft. target. In addition, trying to run your stove so low will make the forced air, radiator, and hot water generation systems extremely inefficient. All of those like the, "hotter is better" for water temperature.
So..... to remedy these issues is probably going to be somewhat expensive.
Being that you are a Caleffi fan (as am I), they offer some storage tanks with the Thermocon line: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-NAS20120-119-Gallon-ThermoCon-Storage-Tank-without-Heat-Exchanger
Now, you are still stuck with the problem of having a vast quantity of hot water (in the storage tanks), yet needing cooler water for your concrete loops. There are a couple options here:
Adding a motorized mixing valve before each of the circulators for each loop manifold feed is one. Reference idronics 10, p.37 fig. 7-2 (a fairly close system to which you wish to implement). This can be used with a reset control. It's intelligent, as it can respond to changes in your thermal storage temperature (tank may fall from 180*-160* before a new batch burn. It is also one of the more complex ways to go about things (that's usually what I prefer, but I'm a bit of geek, and a glutton for punishment!
)There is the option of having a thermostatically controlled (maintains output), but using a cartridge style mixing valve, Reference idronics 7, p.19-20 fig. 4-8. This gives a similar ability to react to input temperatures to maintain the set output temperature. This does so without so many of the fun doo-dads. This is what I play to deply for a system expansion this fall. I'm constructing a heated dog kennel for our new dogs, and have a force air heater for the enclosed house part of the kennel, and a single loop for the pad, both inside the house and out on the exposed pad of the kennel. See attached pdf.
This option is fairly reasonable, as the valves are not hugely expensive, and a little more plumbing is all that is required from what you already have. You could also deploy a complete mixing station, something along the lines of Caleffi 172 series: https://www.caleffi.com/usa/en-us/catalogue/manifold-mixing-station-high-efficiency-pump-1725c1ahe Reference idronics 7 p.34 fig. 6-5. You can find them in most any configuration of port numbers you may need.
Sorry to be a bit of a rain cloud, but starting off with a well designed system seems to be better than trying to come in and modify something you may not be happy with.
60
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: More Moderators
« on: September 18, 2017, 06:09:53 PM »Oldest running thing on the farm at the moment, A Buckeye wheel trencher. Just ran some more on both sides of a old railroad bed we cleared out to farm over. I also have a late 40’s Oliver but it has a cracked block.That is cool!
Buckeye is a reliable ole girl, no emissions crap, DEF, or a metric butt ton of sensors to take a crap. I’ve rebuilt the drive cogs on the wheel several times now, take some 7018 and build em up. Have also built up all the boogie wheels that hold the wheel as well. Build em up with wire then turn em back down in the lathe.