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Author Topic: Well its all over  (Read 4612 times)

ambonci

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Well its all over
« on: March 06, 2016, 05:35:17 AM »

had an issue with a neighbor, I tried to talk like adults with him, he has yelled at my wife on several occasions because she asked him to stop taking pictures of our house and property.  Of course they won the battle.  we got a letter from DEC saying we will decease OWB operation on May 31 we must disassemble our OWB and dispose of it.  we can not install a new unit due to the new regulation saying you have to be 100' from all property lines.  our only other option is to get an indoor wood boiler, which DEC cant do anything about.(makes no sense to me) So we are going to burn oil next winter and do more research on indoor boilers.  I want to thank all the people on here that have helped me with my OWB over the past few years.  there are a lot of knowledgeable people here.  I will be back burning wood hopefully in a few years.  any suggestions on indoor units?  Thanks again and let the smoke fly.
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slimjim

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2016, 05:53:10 AM »

WOW, that's unfortunate, Please stick around and let's talk a bit about your situation, perhaps if we pool our thoughts we can help you fight those rules by switching to an EPA approved unit and still burn from outside! Sometimes local and state agencies aren't informed about cleaner burning units on the market and as well sometimes home owners aren't prepared to do battle with the powers to be.
It would seem to me that this would be an awesome thread if you don't mind making the whole ordeal public?
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Pointblank

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2016, 06:19:16 AM »

Man, thats too bad. Is there a spot on the property that would meet the 100' setback?
Maybe you could try getting a variance approved if you offered to switch to a new gasifier. Their very clean burning with little to no smoke.
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mlappin

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2016, 06:57:51 AM »

Another option before actually going to a dedicated indoor unit if the powers that be won’t let you have a new gasifier outside is to look at something like the G series from Heatmaster as those are rated for indoor installations as well.
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Roscoe

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2016, 07:47:10 AM »

I'm not familiar with "DEC".    ambonci, What city and state is this happening in?
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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2016, 12:52:44 PM »

I know someone who got around a local ordinance requiring having an OWB on a minimum of 5 acres, by building a small metal building around the OWB, thereby making it an indoor wood burning stove...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:14:58 PM by agriffinjd »
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yotehunter66

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2016, 02:27:53 PM »

What a bunch of sh_t!
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ambonci

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 06:15:00 PM »

The great state of NY.  DEC is the department of environmental conservation.  they told me as long as its sold as an OWB it doesn't matter if its inside a building or not.  Our situation is, we are saving cash to build a 1000 sq ft addition in the next four years.  were our OWB is, is right next to where our addition will go.  I currently have a small single car garage with my 16x20 wood shed next t it.  the OWB piping is run out the floor of the garage under the wood shed.  last year we poured a concrete floor in the wood shed.  So when we do the addition we will be knocking down both the garage and wood shed and digging the ground down(our driveway has an incline at the top) so the OWB piping will be dug up. sorry for the long winded story but just trying to explain it.

The problem is the placement of an indoor unit as we don't want to move it twice and spend twice the money will plumbing and all that.  If we went out and bought an indoor unit tomorrow and put in in my wood shed, DEC cant do a darn thing about it.  That whole concept makes ZERO sense to me.  We just don't want to do things twice because it all cost money.  We are thinking about when we do the addition do the new indoor unit at that time. 

I can get 100' from the one line but my unit would be real close to the rd.

I asked about getting papers signed from the one property owner(which I work for) to waive the 100' and DEC told me it doesn't matter.

Slim, I'm not opposed to an indoor unit as I could make the building its in insulated as its already closed in.  There are incentives from NYSERDA for indoor units but its only a few brands that they offer at this time.  its very frustrating that adults cant come to a mutual agreement anymore.  I tried to act civil with my neighbors and the nicer I got or more solutions I offered the more they got pissed and defensive.  Three months before hand me and my neighbor would have adult beverages on occasion its just aggravating and sad at the same time.

Thanks again
Adam
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RSI

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 08:32:34 PM »


I asked about getting papers signed from the one property owner(which I work for) to waive the 100' and DEC told me it doesn't matter.
What if you ran pipes to a building on that property?
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mlappin

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016, 08:53:55 PM »



I asked about getting papers signed from the one property owner(which I work for) to waive the 100' and DEC told me it doesn't matter.

Slim, I'm not opposed to an indoor unit as I could make the building its in insulated as its already closed in.  There are incentives from NYSERDA for indoor units but its only a few brands that they offer at this time.  its very frustrating that adults cant come to a mutual agreement anymore.  I tried to act civil with my neighbors and the nicer I got or more solutions I offered the more they got pissed and defensive.  Three months before hand me and my neighbor would have adult beverages on occasion its just aggravating and sad at the same time.

Thanks again
Adam

My home town pulled a fast one, well actually it was a turd that’s the town attorney and another turd on the town board, they both got brand spanking new fireplace inserts then passed a law saying use what you have till it dies then no more wood burning appliances in town.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 05:57:55 AM by mlappin »
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slimjim

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 02:52:53 AM »

Ok so here is the way I see it.
You bought a conventional boiler for price. Did you buy it before or after NY put in it's rules on OWBs?
Was the boiler grandfathered by those rules?

This is going to sound as if I'm bashing you or the dealer, it's not meant to!

Conventional boiler installations should always be given extra care in not aggravating neighbors, 100 feet is not nearly enough space for the emissions to dissipate before reaching the neighbor! This should have been discussed by your dealer, if it wasn't, then shame on the dealer! If it was and you decided to go ahead and break the rules then you learned a lesson that not only cost you wasted money but also a relationship with your neighbor! I suggest that you try and work on that relationship as well as put yourself in his position, who would want the neighbors smoke rolling through the yard when they are lugging in groceries?

Fixing the problem.
First, let's have a talk with DEC and the neighbor, will an EPA  approved stove satisfy them both?
If so then there are several brands to choose from, personally I would be looking hard at HeatMasters G series as it is the cleanest OWB on the market and should satisfy both the DEC and the neighbor.
They are a machine and still have times that they are not going to operate perfectly so caution as well as traing on proper installation and operation will need to be addressed, this should be done with the dealer.
You are not alone with the problems you are now facing, many folks have been hoodwinked into buying an illegal unit over the internet and ALL the responsibilities fall on the home owner, now it's to late!

Indoor units placed outside in a shed.
Another bad idea, allow me to explain, first the indoor units typically are not large enough to give the desired burn times of 12 hours or more and typically try to make up for the small firebox by adding extra thermal storage, this takes multiple loadings during the day in order to heat up the storage tank and get through the night, lots of extra investment in plumbing and insolation and most important is the safety factor.
Safety, almost every indoor unit I have ever seen is a pressurized boiler, pressurized boilers should never be placed outside as they require a non powered dump zone that will dissipate a minimum of 20% of it's rated BTU capacity without power, think of it this way, if you have a raging fire when you fill up in the evening at 8 PM and go inside to bed, at 9 PM the power goes out and you don't realize it, the circs no longer can move that heat, it builds in the tank and creates steam, if the relief valves don't pop off and release the pressure then you have a steam bomb in your shed, if they do pop, you have a mess on the floor, diluted anti freeze and perhaps a fried circ. there is only one way to be safe with a boiler installed outside and that is with a non pressurized unit, yes backup generators, inverters with battery backup can be used but remember, they are only as good as the guy serviceing them.

I personally enjoy a good discussion with town or state officials as well as non wood burning neighbors so if you would like for me to get involved, feel free to give me a call, if you are in the right area of NY, I may have a nearby dealer that can help as well.
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dukethebeagle

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 04:57:56 AM »

batch burn smaller fires
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ambonci

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 06:22:28 PM »

Slim, the OWB was installed and operational when we bought our house.  I have tried to discuss solutions with my neighbor already and he totally refused to discuss and no resolution came from it besides me wanting to get very violent (which I didn't I walked away). 

My wife talked with DEC today and they told us that even if we do get an indoor unit and DEC sees us at no fault(putting in an EPA approved unit), that our neighbors with take matters into their own hands and still complain because we are doing the same thing as before but with a different unit.  I do believe they would do that but I'm really unsure what else could be done.  what are they going to do call the cops, press charges, and probably sue us?  I really don't want to get into a court deal with these people.  These people are very unliked in my area and cause a lot of problems with town officials. 

Their house has been but for sale not to longer before they started complaing.  this stove has been in operation since 2008 and in 2015 your house is for sale and now its a huge deal.  I think that's a lot of it but could be wrong. 

Slim, I am in the Albany area, south of Albany about an hour. 

My big thing is the new laws stating OWB must be 100' from property lines, which is nearly impossible.  unless there are unpressurized indoor units I think I am out of luck.
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slimjim

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2016, 04:41:49 AM »

Perhaps the G series would work for you then as it is fully approved for indoor use and is non pressurized, folks like that tend to get a reputation and they will reap what they sow! I actually get through that area quite often and I have a very knowledgeable dealer in the Saratoga Springs area, PM me if you would like one of us to stop by and check it out, I would be happy to meet with the town officials, neighbor or DEC.
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atvalaska

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Re: Well its all over
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2016, 07:35:05 PM »

Dammmit that's why .gov was invented... U can't talk to the guy next door cause somebody mite raise their voice and the other fellow wets himself...so off to .gov the bunny huggers go to get the law on your azz...if you are down to having to pull it and its can't be fixed slims way ....I would be burn a wood ,old tire,coal,newspaper combo paper Everynite. Till the clock Strick's!
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