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16

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Outdoor wood boilers

« on: June 28, 2019, 07:00:30 PM »

I'd spend some time at each place and get a good feel for both the stove and the dealer.  One may appeal to you over the other. As stated before, A good knowledgeable dealer will be important. If your new to OWB's, there will lots of questions both before and after the install and a good supporting dealer can make all the difference.

As far as the stoves, I know Central Boiler has a pretty cool WiFi system that lets you monitor the stove via a smartphone if that's something that interests you, otherwise, to be honest, I don't think you can go wrong with either stove.

17

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?

« on: June 26, 2019, 07:54:23 PM »

Be a smartass all you want, I don't care. Aside from the crisis 5-6 years ago, when is the last time LP got above $1.30? Before I started burning wood, I was heating 2800 sq ft on about 1000 gallons a winter including DHW. My 1600 sq ft shop with 14ft sidewalls and two 12x12 doors will heat for $120/mo on electric which is equivalent in cost to $3 propane (so would cost about $450 a year at $.89 on LP if I had an LP boiler). A BTU is a BTU, no matter where it comes from and as my calculations above clearly show, 3 cord of wood at 50% efficiency is the same BTU output as 433 gallons of LP at 95% efficiency. If you disagree with scientific facts, that's just fine but you're wrong. Again, the numbers don't lie.

OK......

I appreciate your input, and no doubt an argument could be made for propane.  My biggest concern with your numbers are your understating the price of propane. Assuming everyone is paying .89 a gallon because of some summer sale your provider is running is your first mistake. The government reports a list every month during heating season and the average price in MN last year was in the 1.50 -1.60 range and this fell right in line with the 1.55 i paid back in october. Using 89 cents a gallon vs1.50 that the rest of the state averaged changes your equasion considerably. Numbers dont lie, but changing them out to better match what people were actually paying in the state changes everything. Going from .89 to 1.50 is  a 75% increase in heating costs. That's huge.

I also think your underestimating the btu load of the building.  I built this place 25 years ago and I've heated before with propane. I still have the modine heater hanging from the ceiling as a back up. That $300 dollars of propane you think is going to cover the entire season disappears quickly when January sets in and we get that run of -20 nights. Been there, Done that, and its the main reason my first OWB was installed back in 2002.

Do I think you could heat this building economicly on propane. Absolutely.
Are you gonna consistantly do it on $300 a year? Not a chance.

18

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?

« on: June 25, 2019, 08:08:32 PM »

$300 to heat a 30x48 building? You realize I'm in Minnesota, right?
You'd be lucky to keep a fishhouse warm up here for $300 

Yes I do, and so am I. If you think you can do it on 2-3 cord with a conventional stove at 50% efficiency, that's 25,000,000-37,500,000 BTU with good dry oak. Converted to LP at 95% efficiency with 86,500 BTU per gallon, we have 289-433 gallons of propane. I just got a "summer fill" quote yesterday for $.89 a gallon. You're welcome to do the math yourself, but mine says $257-385. The numbers don't lie

OK, you got me, sign me up.
Never would have guessed you can heat 1500 sq ft  in Minnesota for $257 by simply switching to propane.
Here i thought i was saving money all these years by cutting wood.
I'll be sure to pass on this wealth of knowledge to my friends and family who are also mistakingly still burning wood.

Anyone interested in a Classic Edge 550 and a slightly used Stihl 440?  Might have 30 ton splitter I'd be willing to part with also.
Oh..... That $.89 a gallon propane comes with a lifetime guarantee right?   

19

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?

« on: June 24, 2019, 08:42:21 PM »

$300 to heat a 30x48 building? You realize I'm in Minnesota, right?
You'd be lucky to keep a fishhouse warm up here for $300 

20

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?

« on: June 21, 2019, 04:54:59 PM »

Thanks for the replys guys. At some point in the future I'm considering scaling back on the firewood cutting. Got a 30x48 detached garage that I could probably heat on 2 or 3 cord a year and a conventional stove would make things quite a bit easier for me.

21

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Is a Non-Epa stove allowed to heat an outbuilding?

« on: June 19, 2019, 07:16:43 PM »

Does anyone know if the epa rules are applied to outbuildings? Curious if one is still allowed if its not used to heat the primary residence?  Say for example you just wanted to heat an outbuilding such as a detached garage or barn.

22

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: End of season cleaning

« on: June 10, 2019, 06:57:09 PM »

Agree, I wouldn't use water.  Just scrape or vacuum it out and cap the chimney over the summer. Actually I would save ash to put in the firebox for startup in the fall, it runs best with several inches.

I've been doing this for a couple years now. I try to leave a half dozen or so partially burned logs and some ash and coals at shut down time in the spring. I keep them in a small garbage can with a tight lid. I use these to start my fire in the fall. With the old charred logs and small remaining coal bed its usually up and gassing within a few minutes. Gets the boiler up to temp in no time.

23

Central Boiler / Re: Shutting down

« on: April 14, 2019, 06:12:45 PM »

Getting close to shutting down here too. A few more nights in the 20's are forecasted then it looks pretty mild. After nearly 7 months, im ready.

24

General DIY remodeling without Hydronics / Re: Bathroom remodel question

« on: March 20, 2019, 03:34:35 PM »

I think you'll be alright doing it like your sketch .  They have door stops that go on the hinge if you want to avoid mounting one on the floor. They work best with a solid core door however, as ive seen them get pushed through a hollow core veneer type door.

You could also build a small 1\2 wall behind the door to seperate it from the toilet if room permits

25

General DIY remodeling without Hydronics / Re: Bathroom remodel question

« on: March 19, 2019, 06:12:17 PM »

RSI,
Not sure if you like them or not, but another option might be a pocket door if you have room within the wall. We've used them before in small bathrooms and closets where a swinging door can get in the way.

26

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: It's staying cold!

« on: March 06, 2019, 04:12:41 PM »

Been a cold winter here too. Plus we set a record and got 40+ inches of snow in February alone. None of it has melted yet. If we get a sudden warm up and a little rain, half the state could be under water. Hopefully we get a nice slow warm up.

As far as the wood supply, I'm still sitting good. Switched to a gasifier 4 years ago so wood consumption is way down compared to years past.

27

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage for the season?

« on: February 17, 2019, 08:29:24 AM »

Braveblaster- I will have a 50 gallon water heater in the house as a buffer/storage tank with gas backup, also providing DHW, the tank has 2 sets of ports so I will hang a 40 plate exchanger and a pump between the spare 2 ports on constant circ with a Ranco controller regulating tank temp. When the tank falls below 130, the Ranco activates a pump to circulate the underground across both plates and reheat the tank to 160 at which point the underground stops flowing. On a call for heat, another pump will draw from the 40 plate in the house (same one used to heat the tank) and send hot water to the air handler. I've got all the parts here, just haven't had time to execute the plan yet.

Heat550- Because Insulseal would cost $6000 and take 100+ hours to complete, versus $600 and 8 hours, And my current ground loss is only 2.5 degrees in 350 feet with the Logstor. If I had it to do over again the first time, I'd spray it in the trench. But seeing as 50 feet of my Logstor is under a concrete slab and the boiler is on the far end of that slab, that's not an option now.

That's a good idea.  Always interesting/informative to see how guys get the most out of their system. A 2 cord a year savings is worth it if it means a Saturday or two just got freed up to do something other than cutting/splitting/handling wood.

28

General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage for the season?

« on: February 13, 2019, 05:50:17 PM »

When I switched from conventional to a gasifier I went as far as doing heat loss calculations on my house and 30x48 shed. I then took the btu requirements of the buildings, combined with the heating degree days of my area to come up with a total yearly btu requirement. Guestimating the stove running around 70℅ efficient, i could look up btu values of firewood and figure how many cords of wood per year I'd need.

Theres alot of variables at play here, but overall, i think my calculations have been pretty accurate. This is my 4 season with the upgraded stove.  Warmer years I've came in just under what I guessed at. This year is much colder and ive kept the shed a bit warmer. So probably on pace to be a cord or two over this year.

29

General Discussion / Re: Sucks getting older

« on: February 05, 2019, 07:00:34 PM »

Sounds familiar. I've been sick since saturday. Felt a little better yesterday,  so I thought I'd clean the ash out of the stove and refill my wood boxes after last weeks cold snap.  A couple easy chores that in my younger years, even with a bad cold, wouldn't have taken more than 45 minutes. 
 
Well.......  Realized rather quickly I wasn't quite at a 100% yet. Heck,  I was lucky if I was at 50%
I ended up taking today off of work too

Damn, I miss those days of bouncing right back

30

Central Boiler / Re: Pleased I made the move

« on: February 02, 2019, 06:50:38 AM »

Good to hear all is working out for you. They've made a few updates to them since I got mine, and looks like they've only improved them. Wish I had the smoke bypass and the stainless firebox like yours, but otherwise its been a good stove. My heat exchanger is accessible through the firebox instead of the back of the stove, but in 4 seasons now, I've never had to open it up. A couple pulls on the cleaning chains once a week and the only thing thats ever dropped out of it is a little fly ash.