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Author Topic: Global warming, climate change? Article  (Read 32569 times)

NaturallyAspirated

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2014, 08:23:56 PM »

Homerglide,

Not debating heartfelt opinions and standing up for your beliefs is what would be dishonorable.  Allowing ourselves to be shouted down and run over by leftists is what is bringing down this country. 

Oh your #2,    When not winning in the war of ideas change the subject, and redirect.   I knew it would get around to being George Bush's fault.

Spending money on research is not the problem, it's the radical changes that people are trying to propose based on unproven theories.

Some sure do have an agenda to take us down from within and they are in power right now.
Radical changes eh?  What radical changes have you faced from the government due to global warming, more fuel efficient cars? 

Neal

How about the EPA basically shutting down the coal industry and several power plants that rely on coal.   How about the proposed "cap & trade" legislation that they tried to ram through.   How about the further proposed regulations on heavy trucks, that will make shipping much more expensive.  How about not basically shutting down federal land leases for energy exploration both oil and natural gas.  Cheap energy fuels America's economy and we have lot's of it we wont go after.

What about wasting billions on so called "Green Energy"  companies like Solyndra where many of the higher ups in the companies had ties to fundraising for the current administration.

Nothing wrong with "Green Energy" as long as it works in the free market without taxpayer subsidies. I'm all for new technology and innovation, I just believe it has to make it in the free market, not politically funded agendas.

.
Coal needed a huge wakeup call, the plants were gigantic pollution generators.  Most of the coal plants that have been rejected are by state governmental authorities, not the EPA, and not to mention the declining economy in 2008 or so being responsible for many cancellations.   That said coal has cleaned up significantly, and still remains the dominate power generation source.  The bigger influence now is that the market price of natural gas is phasing out desire for new coal plants.

Cap and trade didn't make it though, therefore no radical change....

I haven't heard that new emissions on heavy trucks has increased shipping costs.  Do you have some examples or studies showing so?  I would wager the price of fuel is far more significant in terms of radical price changes for shipping that emissions regulations.

The total number of leases of federal lands is hovering right around 50,000, the same area it has been for several decades.  Number of new leases has declined, however the total number of acres leased is right around 40 million, where it has been for the past several decades. That would indicate that most new leases are for larger parcels of federal land than previously applied for.  It also shows an interesting trend towards conglomerations.  There are fewer lease applicants for the same number of acres.  If you look at the number of productive well bores on federal land the number is continually increasing.   Thus we have the same number of acres leased for the past few decades but increased the number of wells by 40% or so.  If that indicates any radical change, it is that we are ever increasing our production on federal lands, basically the opposite of what you infer by saying that we are shutting down federal lands.

There certainly was cronyism going on with some of the green energy deals, no question. 

Well many new green technologies require taxpayer subsidies to get into place.  I see nothing wrong with that, after all we give huge amounts of government dollars to the old guard of energy production companies.  To no invest in the beginning of new technologies is awfully short sighted, especially looking at the history of coal, natural gas, and nuclear power when they first came about.  I do agree that removing politics from new tech funding is a great idea however, I'm all for that.  We should also be massively investing in nuclear production.  That's the part of the industry that has been hamstrung by government.

Neal

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2014, 10:22:41 PM »

Last I understood heavy truck emissions haven't taken place, yet. Of course it will increase costs, every gizmo thats added to an engine increases it production cost, each production cost is passed on to the purchaser of said truck, the purchasers pass that cost on in increased freight rates.

Unless there is practically an unlimited supply of nat gas, eventually increased usage will lead to increased prices.
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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2014, 05:27:20 AM »

I give up, go ahead and continue to steal our monies Neal, govt has a great record of responsibly pissing away that money, sooner or later we will all pay for those great investments that have been subsidised, nobody in the private sector has the money or the brains to succeed without govt. involvement. Looking at it another way, if I were filthy rich and could solve a large portion of our energy problem with a true investment, tell me why I would invest in a country and product that the winners and losers are hand picked by polititians, You win I give up!!!
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oldchenowth

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2014, 06:14:33 AM »

I still think Grandpa said it best.

"You can tell exactly what a man doesn't know by how much he tells you he does know."

Then there are people like me that don't know squat about anything.  Is there a law that reminds me to breathe?  Maybe I can get Govmt money for that. 

Doesn't climate change everyday?  Today is warmer than yesterday.  Later in the week will be coller than today.  Isn't that a change in climate?

Told you I didn't know anything!
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Homerglide

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2014, 01:16:22 PM »


Even if our industrialization isn't the reason for the ice caps melting away, shouldn't we determine what is going on in our house (the planet Earth)? If your basement or crawl space began smelling bad and moisture was becoming evident, wouldn't you investigate in order to fix the problem?

Someone has an agenda to take this country down from within. Who would gain from that? who would gain power over others in a societal downfall? A poor family in Appalachia? A recent immigrant family from Vietnam? A tree hugger? A plumber from Vermont? A conglomerate of corporations? Lawyers?

These questions from my post that you responded to. Believe me when I say I do not believe it is one political party or another but someone is puppet stringing our politicians. Where is the money coming from? Who would have something to gain (money, power, influence etc) by crashing our society? Someone is instigating unrest with the population of the USA.
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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2014, 03:15:31 PM »

NA,  I never said all the "Radical Changes" had happened yet.   Most of what I was referring to is the proposed changes, as in cap and trade.   The new wood stove standards are another example.   The trucking industry changes that Obama talked about recently but are not law yet.

It's not just what has happened already it's what they would like to happen using unproven theories as the reason for the "change",  which boils down to more government control of every aspect of our lives.



Homer,

I never said not to investigate, I just said don't go making radical changes that effect all of our lifestyles and put us at a competitive disadvantage with other world powers that are doing nothing to combat this unproven theory.

How much more plain can I be,   I think the present administration would gain from a societal  downfall, as in taking us from the socialist country we are now, to a totalitarian regime with them and your mysterious backer taking total control.

I don't know what your list of different segments of society has to do with it or what you are trying to say there.

I also believe there could powerful people or organizations behind the scenes.

So are you going to tell us who or what you believe it is.
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Homerglide

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2014, 05:37:46 PM »

My belief, that it is a group of Rich "railroad industry types" who want control of the geography and all its inhabitants of the USA. Greed would be the driver as was in the game we played as children (monopoly). There are Christian extremists, Islamic extremists, greed extremists, and power extremists, etc.... Truly it would great to explicitly say those 10 people right there, but I cannot.

Follow the money, I guess. Who buys elections by financing election campaigns? Why are campaign ads so GD negative these days? I get pissed when I see fellow Americans bad rapping each other just for their political views. How has this become acceptable behavior?
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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2014, 06:16:32 PM »

Christians fighting radical extremists, fixed it for you.
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slimjim

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #113 on: March 31, 2014, 07:36:57 PM »

Homer, may I try to explain it with a story, My father in law and I used to argue politics at the dinner table, my father in law ( GOD REST HIS SOUL ) was an old time Democrat, as you can imagine sometimes the debates got very heated, this does not mean that we did not love one another as individuals very much and I cannot think of another man dead or alive that I still respect more, he had the right as an AMERICAN to voice his opinion and he fought for my right to do the same, I would dishonor him by not sharing what is in my heart as well as listening to opposing views, in my opinion the problem with North American culture is that we are for the most part afraid as individuals to speak our minds and form our own opinions, when families and friends stopped talking about the things that matter to them as individuals, we gave up our LIBERTIES for the safety of non argument, people (the citizen) with his head buried in the sand allowed us to get where we are today, I AM NOT PROUD OF WHERE WE ARE, WE CAN DO SO MUCH BETTER, it all starts with constructive conversation, ( Rand Paul 2016 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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Homerglide

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2014, 08:43:08 AM »

Slim, I totally understand what you are saying. Unfortunately in the current times, people will immediately dismiss the opposing view just because it is from "the other side". I don't have enough digits on my body to keep track of the number of people who have claimed to me that they are Independent and yet have no understanding of the term 'objective research'.

In our work, Church or Lodge environment we coexist with our fellow members, Yes? And yet anything of a political nature gets viscerally piled-on rather than objectively discussed. Where did the nudge come from to cross previous ethical boundaries? Look to DC and we can see the etiquette violations of some members there in the chambers. College educated people behaving as if the lived in a low rent trailer park.

As you stated "WE CAN DO SO MUCH BETTER".
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2014, 11:34:15 AM »

I give up, go ahead and continue to steal our monies Neal, govt has a great record of responsibly pissing away that money, sooner or later we will all pay for those great investments that have been subsidised, nobody in the private sector has the money or the brains to succeed without govt. involvement. Looking at it another way, if I were filthy rich and could solve a large portion of our energy problem with a true investment, tell me why I would invest in a country and product that the winners and losers are hand picked by polititians, You win I give up!!!
Perhaps of  thinking it is a you versus me issues you could expand your horizons and see what is best for our society as a whole.  Granted not every government action or degree of program implementation is, but we do need to contribute to all of our general needs as a society.   You getting all the policies you want or me getting all the policies I want may not be what is best for both of us. Most topics should not be a battle but a cooperative effort to solve or understand a problem.

Neal
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slimjim

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #116 on: April 01, 2014, 11:47:27 AM »

Cooperative effort to me is voluntary, the moment that somebody is forced in the form of stolen tax dollars to participate in any program it then sways from cooperative to mandatory, I do support lots of local projects in my community, Our new fire barn, my wife mans the voting station things like this are voluntary and I get involved where I choose, I do not give to the United Way because I found out 25 years ago that they support Planned parenthood/ abortion clinics, can I possibly be any clearer, it is my money and time and I will do as I please with it, you are free to do as you wish with yours.
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NaturallyAspirated

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2014, 02:14:14 PM »

Cooperative effort to me is voluntary, the moment that somebody is forced in the form of stolen tax dollars to participate in any program it then sways from cooperative to mandatory, I do support lots of local projects in my community, Our new fire barn, my wife mans the voting station things like this are voluntary and I get involved where I choose, I do not give to the United Way because I found out 25 years ago that they support Planned parenthood/ abortion clinics, can I possibly be any clearer, it is my money and time and I will do as I please with it, you are free to do as you wish with yours.
Your argument is unbounded.  One could use your argument as a point for every tax.

Neal
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TheBoiler

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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2014, 04:03:16 PM »

When you have a system where the best investment a Business can make is buying Politicians you have problems.
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Re: Global warming, climate change? Article
« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2014, 04:18:16 PM »

When you have a system where the best investment a Business can make is buying Politicians you have problems.

 :post: :thumbup:
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