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[Roger2561]

Hi all, This is what I'm thinking; use the storage capacity of the OWB as a hot-water tank.  Essentially, use solar collectors to heat the water jack in my OWB.  I'll have to look at the owners manual to be sure but I believe I have a second set of ports (input and output) in the rear where I could pipe a flat plate heat exchanger (FPHE) to separate the water in the OWB from the glyol (I wouldn't have to drain the system when not in use in the winter) in the solar collectors.  Use the in-ground Thermopex pipe to get the hot water to the superstore DHW tank in the basement of my house like I do now.  What I don't know is the following;

1)  What size of solar collector(s) would I need to heat 195 gallons of water in the OWB

2)  What size of FPHE would I need for the heat transfer from the glycol in the solar collectors to the water in the OWB without too much of a heat loss.

3)  Would I need an expansion tank between the FPHE and solar collectors?  Size?

My guess is I'll need some kind of controller to turn on the glycol pump when the OWB water needs rewarming.  I can pick that up at my local box store.  I'll need a pump; get that at the box store too. 

I need your expert opinions on this concept.  Is my thought process warped thinking this is feasible?  Would I have to be concerned of condensation happening?  My guess is that as long as the water in the OWB is warmed that ambient air, it shouldn't be an issue.  But, I'm no expert.  Your thoughts and opinions are most welcome.  Roger       

   

[slimjim]

Roger is your goal to heat your domestic hot water or is it to keep your boiler hot?

[NaturallyAspirated]

Is there a reason to heat the furnace jacket instead of just a FPHE to the underground lines?

Neal

[Roger2561]

Slimjim, NaturallyAspirated - I'm glad I posted my idea.  I like the idea of keeping the OWB water jacket out of the equation; FPHE to underground water pipe.  My Thermopex is 80 feet long and my superstore DHW tank is 40 gallons heated to 140 degrees.  What are yoiur thoughts on size of collector and FPHE?  Roger

[slimjim]

Roger, you are in NH are you not, each manufacturer will have their own specs, my point is, talk with your local supply house and they can help you spec it to your needs, the guys I use for something like this is Granite Group for NH, there very well may be some of those liberal free money programs that they can make you aware of

[Sprinter]

If all your heating is DHW, you might wanna look into the calefi solar on tanks or similar and a taco solar mixing block. That would be the most efficient use of the panels. As far as size of panels go, well that will determine your recovery rate, obviously more will make more and recover.  Quicker. But you can always add to the system.
Solar is also capable of handling the shoulder months for heating as well. More so if you have low temp emitters like radiant panels or infloor.

[TheBoiler]

I have looked at this, I made allowance to add solar panels at a later stage.

Certainly currently the cost of adding the system vs the amount of extra wood I would need to burn means that that financially it makes no sense.

[ITO]

If all your heating is DHW, you might wanna look into the calefi solar on tanks or similar and a taco solar mixing block. That would be the most efficient use of the panels. As far as size of panels go, well that will determine your recovery rate, obviously more will make more and recover.  Quicker. But you can always add to the system.
Solar is also capable of handling the shoulder months for heating as well. More so if you have low temp emitters like radiant panels or infloor.

Interesting Sprinter, never thought of using the panels with the boiler in the shoulder months. Have a resource for reading up on this?

[Roger2561]

I have looked at this, I made allowance to add solar panels at a later stage.

Certainly currently the cost of adding the system vs the amount of extra wood I would need to burn means that that financially it makes no sense.

That's a great point, TheBoiler.  I never thought of looking at the cost versus the return on my investment.  All really wanted to do was keep the oil burner turned off for good.  I would use the OWB to heat my DHW though the summer months but I'm concerned of neighbors breathing in the smoke, especially when everyone wants their windows open at night.  I have too much respect my neighbors.  Roger

[Jwood]

It's good to see respectful wood burners like yourself Roger!

[Sprinter]

ITO I will look it up but mostly its on paper from seminars. Do you remember that link I posted about live wood boiler monitoring. He has solar charging his storage and heating the DHW. In his case ,I believe his state and energy providers , provided a huge credit/check for the solar and another for the storage. Most of the New England states do.  When you see those fancy systems on hearth , that's pretty much the only reason they did solar or storage. Heck I'd do it too if Michigan was cutting $2500+ check for a storage tank, and another $5000 for a certain amount of solar and $5000 for a pellet boiler. He has a few posts on how much he gets out of it and I believe its all monitored and measured.

Roger, definately look at the cost analysis, but when doing so make sure your using very credible resources. And look into who might be giving credits, we have a ton of money for it, but on a industrial or commercial size and many other requirements.

[Roger2561]

Hey guys - Thanks for the discussion on this topic.  I have learned a lot from you.  I'll look into the cost analysis of a ready to go system.  I was talking to a co-worker about this and he's thinking of somehow building his own collector using copper pipe, plywood and other stuff.  He said he'd share his plans with me.  I'm rather handy with power tools and sweating copper joints so perhaps I may have found an alternative solution to the high cost of the ready built systems.  I'm renovating the second floor of my house into a small apartment for a younger brother who's feeling the financial pinch a lot of people are experiencing and maybe I can coerce him into helping me building it.   Roger

[Roger2561]

It's good to see respectful wood burners like yourself Roger!

Jwood - I have a very good relationship with my neighbors.  A couple of them have kids who have dirt bikes and they ride them quite a lot.  But, the parents are aware that I have to be in bed early due to having be up at an extremely early time (3:30am) so they shut down their kids bikes at 8:00pm.  They are doing their part showing me consideration by shutting the bikes so I feel it's only fair to reciprocate by not keeping the OWB fired up during the sometimes hot and humid summers we can get here NH.  Roger   

[Jwood]

  that's how all neighbors should be respected. That's awesome!

[fryedaddy]

I hope I haven't posted this twice.

Alright, I'm very passionate about solar panels. They are an affordable way to reduce dependancy on foreign oils
or reduce your power bill.

My setup includes (6) 4'x10' evacuated hydronic solar panels. My stove was designed for solar storage during the shoulder months
and DHW heat during the summer. Here are a few links to Hicks older offerings (Not sure they are available now "EPA")

http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Graphics/No.1/IndexNo1.html

Link to Mark's pricing so you can budget parts, he is reasonable as well if your looking.
http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Price.html

If you check all the pictures you'll see several of the solar storage tanks as well.

To build a solar set up you will need approximately (4-6) panels (I bought my panels for $75.00 each, used).
If you locate used panels make sure they are pressure tested before you purchase them!! I'd recomend locating older panels built in the late 80's through
early 90's because they are made with copper tubing. Some of the newer designs are more efficient but I bought all (6) panels cheaper than
(1) of the evacuated tube panels cost.
Four panels would give a two person family all the hot water they need or for a four member family (6) panels would make hot enough water
for all showers and clothes (I run (1) 70 gallon bath per day, hot water to our dishwasher, (3-4) loads of laundry per day as well.
1. Solar Panels
2. Structure for panels (mine are mounted to my shop but you can mount them on the roof of your house and tye in from there).
3. Piping, a few pieces of copper (recommended) and however much pex for your setup.
4. (2) Sensors for stove & solar panels
5. Vaccume break on solar panel for drainage
6. Controller - Mine is a Goldline Solar Controller - (2) sensors are goldline as well.
    This is a simple analog controller but it was cheap from my coworker. Many options are offered that can tell solar collector temp, etc.
7. Pump - My manufacturer installed a willow pump for the panels.

Please ask any questions, send pictures of anything you may purchase and I'll give unbiased opinions. I researched solar panels for
quite some time before I purchased.

For anyone local feel free to contact Mark, he has used panels for $200 and under and new if you would like (See his price list).

Some states will even offer a rebate for the solar storage portion of your stove and purchase of new panels.
Mark was able to deduct the firebox from the purchase price and add solar panel cost (at least a large percentage)
towards an NC rebate for purchasing all new parts.

You could also add additional panels down the road for solar heating. I'd like to add (4) more to my setup and it would augment
some of my wood buring. I pulled heat down to 35 degrees and have seen a twenty degree rise on some of those days when sunny.

I've asked questions previously about stove heat during summer and posted my setup as well.
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4075.msg35900#msg35900

I can gather a list for anyone interested, may be a good sticky for people interested.

I hope this help a few move towards solar, it has a decent payback and unlimited life expectancy (my fathers system is 25-30yrs).

I'll also take a picture of my full setup and a diagram of the piping if needed.

Also, If someone has the time, effecient solar panels can be built at home from locally sourced parts as well and
solar storage tanks. Check youtube for some of the demonstrations. I've watched several videos of people building
panels. My father even built a 2'x2' solar panel for my science project when I was younger.

That was a lot, sorry!!