Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Shaver Furnace => Topic started by: doow14 on September 21, 2013, 08:58:51 PM
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hello been reading about all the shaver problems for a while now you guys got me scared. going into my 4th winter with a shaver 165 and haven't had any big problems yet,knock on wood.any ideas about flushing out the tank? I drained it out last week for the first time it was pretty clear.filled it back up and it was nasty rusty brown, opened up the drain again and flushed with the hose as it drained never cleared back up.think maybe I just stired up a bunch of gunk from the bottom,not sure if the drain is up from the bottom some and cant drain completely.what's your thoughts.
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Yea there was likely a thick layer of crap in the bottom.. You got it all stirred up but under that layer of crap that's been in there is likely where corrosion is taking place, the sludge keeps the treatment from being able to interact with the steel itself. So it's hard telling, but I've heard and read from many members that there is always massive a amounts of slag in the bottom of there shaver...
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do you mean welding slag,are they that bad they wouldn't flush all that out when they were finished.anyone with ideas how to get that crap out short of turning the stove upside down and flushin with a fire hose.thanks
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Mine had a lot of flag in it. And I've had 2 different stoves that rusted through. Maybe u could jack up the front of the stove and use a shop vac to suck that crap out.
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Yes welding slag, I'm not sure how you'd go about getting it all out. But there are several post that mention it,I think someone under Rutgers post was just talking about it as well
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you had 2 stoves rust thru what make were they shavers?thought about trying to jack up the front a bit like you said.probably never get all the goo out but somes better than none.thanks
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Ys gandg had 2 of them fail, both shavers
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I bet he didn't buy a 3rd one.been lookin around in guts of that thing all morning.welds don't look real good to me looks like the drain hole is about 3/4 inch above the bottom of the tank that lets a lot of area for gunk to settle don't think no amount of flushing will ever get it out. I;m thinkin I could weld better and my welding skills aren't much above a drunken monkey.ok i'm goin to try not gripin about it anymore it is what it is i'm goin to figure out a solution.any ideas you guys can throw out are appreaciated.thanks again, doow
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What boiler treatment are you using? It is important that every couple of years to use a boiler flush and add some white vinegar with it to flush out not only the furnace, but the heat exchanger in the home furnace as well. You don't want that to plug up!
Then use a good boiler treatment after the flush. I recommend Alternative Heating and Supplies. They have good products.
Their link is: www.altheatsupply.com (http://www.altheatsupply.com)
Tell them Greg Steinacher sent you. They are good folks!
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I talked too mike at wood boiler solutions ,where I order my chem from{101} last week he said too refill and add 10 gal of white vinegar and fire it up for few hours did that.In the past years I haven't sealed off that inspection plate and it boils off a lot of water but I have a test kit and always maintain proper chem level.yesterday I refilled and flushed again it was a little clearer I added 3/4 gal 101 and refilled. drilled a hole in the plate and put a robber stopper in so I can add chem if needed.its sealed up tight now.Put a stopper in the overflow pipe also.What is the boiler cleaner your talkin of? I'll do that too next summer.Thanks for the heads up
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You sealed the overflow pipe? :o Do you have it running now or is that just while it is sitting? Sealing it off with it running is not a good idea.
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Its not running now,but that's how I did it the last 2 seasons.Do you think it would up pressure now that the inspection plate is sealed good?
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It has to be able to vent somewhere. If you seal it up completely and run it bad things will happen. Especially if it boils for some reason. The weakest point would blow out which may be your plugs but not necessarily.
What is the reason for sealing the overflow?
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I just put the cork in it because its always steaming off, always adding water too it then have to add more 101.maybe I wont do it this year since I sealed up the inspection plate real good that should cut way back on the water loss this season.Alot of times when I top out the tank when it starts coming out it runs a little bit after the valve is off so I just put the cork in.I was talking to the guy at boiler solutions last winter he asked me how much water do I add, I guessed couple gal a week he said a lot of stoves only need maybe a gal for the whole season, what kind of stove is it I told him the "S" word and he went o-yea we have a whole different maint program for shavers.I always added a little 101 thru the season,but now I test evey few weeks to make sure its enough.
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Wow wow
Just for the record, your wood boiler should not be using water like that. I've ran and tested many designs here at my shop and home. Over the course of an entire winter on a stove that's operating properly I've seen most will hold only a few gallons if that. If your having to add water constantly you have no control over the water temp obviously, which is what's causing it to boil off so much. Sounds like you have more issues going on than what you may have realized.
But never pressurize am open system. It's like building a bomb, i know u said cork but I can see some redneck thinking if his cork helped a steel cap will fix it good lol. :thumbup:
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We got a shaver in on a trade last week and for the first time I was able to go over one in depth. To be honest I had no idea how poorly they are designed. I now realize there is no way you can control water temps with a shaver, both the draft and the door is designed in a way that would be almost impossible to completely seal. The only option I see is to extend the overflow pipe and then just keep adding water every day or two. Or reinstall the fan and have a completely new door built at a local welding shop.
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I did ranco mod 2 years ago,thanks to you guys on this forum for all the ideas.It seems to me that the heat is regulated preety good.I have the box mounted in my shop,even wired a small red light that is on when blower is on.I kept the temp at 150 with a diff of 2 and it stays right close.I spend good deal of time in my shop in the winter so I have a pretty close eye on it.I'm hoping the reason for all the water loss was the inspection plate not being sealed,thats taken care of now.Last fall I made a air intake out of a dryer vent to go on the side of the blower it worked pretty good for a while but then started to get stuck closed sometimes,thats probly pretty hard on the motor any how I took it of half way thru the season and just used the slide thing open about 1/2 inch that's where the installer recommended.How important is it to have that mod,hopfully one that's more reliable than the one I made.Thanks again Dwight
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Dwight, here is the catch. If your steaming off and having to add water and your temp is around 150 on the display, that's possible, but at some place I'm the water jacket it's likely boiling, I've seen stoves "usually home built" that would show 160 on the star and be boiling hard in a back corner or front corner where they had little to no circulation going on inside the boiler, so that's something to consider
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That is a good point you bring up. What size are the fittings on the Shavers? Do they have a second set? If they do, I would put a Taco 007 to circulate the water in the boiler and see if it cuts down on the steaming. If you can keep the pipes large enough there would be a lot of flow and hopefully get it at least moving a bit where it is boiling.
The pump could be wired to the blower if you have a good air shutoff mod. Otherwise leaving it running might be better.
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ok I'm with you guys on the circulation thing had no idea the temp could very that much,if I have my temp set at 150 that would be like 63 deg difference from one part of the tank to another to be boiling do mean boilin as in boilin WOW I believe you but that's not easy to believe that's extream.when I get the stove fired up I'll put some kind of temp thing down thru the over flo pipe that would be the opposite corner of the ranco sensor and see how much diff there is that could be interesting.how are other stoves setup to get proper circulation? my stove only came with 2 in 2 out ports both are being used shop/house.so not sure how I could hook up another pump for circulation it would be a major mod that would need done in the summer.as always thanks for the input.Dwight
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To get proper circulation in the entire boiler takes a lot of effort in the design stages of the boiler. The reason for the temperature difference would be if the water isn't moving in some areas. If you are running two pumps already then probably not worth trying a recirc loop like that.
Do your pumps take water out of the top or bottom of the boiler? If they are on the top, it will help to swap them. When you return to the bottom you get poor mixing inside the boiler. It is also better for the pumps.
Also, do you have your pumps running 24/7? If not, I would at least set it up to run when the blower is running if not all the time.
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wish I had good internet service when I went into this deal I could have made a more informed decision on a stove by looking at this website,thanks again
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wish I had good internet service when I went into this deal I could have made a more informed decision on a stove by looking at this website,thanks again
It can be good info, this site is pretty good...
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RSI is correct, mixing water in a furnace is very important. Also you may check and be sure the Ranco is getting an accurate reading. I've seen some guys who just tape the probe on the water jacket. It really needs to be sealed in a good dry well to work well.
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doow14! Do you have an auto damper on your blower? If so is the flapper sealing off good when closed? What temp. do you run your furnace water?
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Doow14. Do you have an auto damper? What temp. are you maintaining in your furnace?
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mabe put a 1/4 inch pipe on the end of a hose and stick it in the drain hole
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I don't have an auto damper haven't figured out how to make one that's reliable I run stove temp about 150.
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doow, You can get a Auto Damper from Alternative Heating & Supplies or call and order one from Weld Rite. From Weld Rite its a 11 or12 gauge plate with the solenoid, works well!
Greg Steinaher
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my 290 was steaming off really bad as well , it 2 things to fix it, replaced the original aquastat with a Ranco and installed a return line to the front of the stove. sealed up the square in the back with good high temp silicone, and then put a 1/2in 90 with a 4 inch nipple on the overflow pipe. the 4 inch nipple has just a slight incline (not straight up) so any steam hits it and condenses back to water and runs back in the stove. since i have done this i rebuilt the door seal as well.
a few pictures here --- woops sorry photo link taken down because this site loaded my server full of viruses
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You say you put a 90 and 4 in nipple on the overflow does that let you fill the tank too a higher level?
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From the description, I think the 90 is installed slightly uphill from horizontal (not vertical) and the 4-inch nipple is basically horizontal to the ground, so no it would not raise the water level. :-\