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[mackdx]

Greetings -

I stumbled into this forum after attempting to search for some info regarding wood furnaces since I may be considering one in the near future. 

Some background info - I live in Southern Maine and have a a 2,800 s.f. house to heat with an attached 28x42 garage with radiant heat (house is only 6 years old).  Current heating system is forced hot water baseboard with radiant in the garage (Viessman boiler is only 6 years old).  Hot water supply is from the boiler coupled with a storage tank.  This winter hasn't been too bad for heating.  Even though the price of oil is up (about $3.55/gal right now), the mild winter has been pretty nice.  Last winter we got crushed.....    I have 25 acres of land, but unfortunately, its all fields so I would likely be purchasing tree length and processing it myself.  My brother is a plumber so that certainly helps with respect to installation   


It's amazing how little really good info there is on the internet regarding wood boilers in general.  Plenty of manufacturer's brochures, but not much in way of practical guidance.  One of the thoughts I have been tossing around is the outdoor vs. indoor boiler question.  I have plenty of room in the garage and could vent it through a metal chimney off the back of the house - plus it should be a fairly straight forward process to tie it into the existing system.  An outdoor boiler could easily be situated with 50-75 feet of the house. 

To start, can anyone offer any insight into the following:

1) Outdoor vs. indoor - which is better and why? 

2) Brands - what is the consensus on the better quality mfg's (indoor or outdoor)? 

3) What kind of maintenance can I expect from either?  What about lifespan of the boiler.  In looking at the some of the posts on these forums it appears that some models or mfg's may be questionable?

4) Gassification or not?

I would appreciate insight any of you might be willing to offer.

thanks!

Scot

[Scott7m]

Indoor vs outdoor.  Not many companies have indoor gassers to heat that much space.  I say gassers cause I'm sure you have to go that route in your area and if you do I'm sure you'll love it, burns almost half the wood. 

If your looking at outdoor gassifiers it's hard to beat a portage and main or an empyre, both designs are similar, p and m are higher, but both are good units with very minimal maintenance compared to other gassers. That's actually the only 2 brands of gassers I would reccomend

I think lifespan has everything to do with how well you take care of it and doing your yearly water sample is critical.  Wouldn't surprise me to see them go over 20 years with the brands mentioned

Go to YouTube and you can watch videos of the portage and main optimized and also the empyre pro series, good videos.  You can also install the empyre models indoors, but it looks like an outdoor model, they do have the elite 100 and 200 indoor gassers but may be to small for your needs

[MattyNH]

Hey Scot!.. Welcome to the Forum...Not far from me at all!..Well for one the State of Maine like New Hampshire..Where I live.. Requires EPA phase 2 outdoor wood boilers.. So some of the brands listed on this forum are NOT allowed to be sold in your state and my state unless they meet EPA phase 2.. Theres a Portage & Main dealer right on rt 111 Alfred/ Biddeford line.. Central Boiler dealer in Dover NH called Janco Classic Wood Boilers...Save on the sales tax!..Also pick up the "Uncle Henry's"..Bunch of dealers ads for Portage & Main, Central Boiler, and others on the stove section

Far as indoor vs outdoor:..Well being outdoors, no mess in the house, no soot , no lugging the wood in, took the "fire" right out of the house..No worries about chimney fires.. are a few examples

Warranty's..For example Central Boiler has a 25 yr limited warranty.. My brand- Aqua-Therm also has a 25 yr warranty on it.. So some have a pretty good warranty.. Hope this helps you out!..

[boilerman]

Mack, welcome to the world of outdoor wood furnaces!
There is lots of information and advice out there, so do your homework. Read brochures, watch videos physically look at and touch the models you are considering and speak to some owners of that model if you can. Forums are good, but "anybody" can be an expert. Some are probably dealers while others are just totally commited to the brand they use.  A great place to start and compare is the EPA Phase 2 qualified list of furnaces that are required in your state at this link: http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html
I find the "heat output rating" column to be of much use as it truly compares the qualified models head to head in their btu output capabilities. As I understand it, this column gives you the maximum amount of constant btu draw that can be maintained over an 8 hour burn time, giving you a rating much like an indoor furnace/boiler heating device.
Scott likes to push his Canadian models and videos, I am personally a long time Central Boiler Classic and now Eclassic 2400 owner. Since he steered you to some of his favorite videos, here is the Eclassic video link as well:   http://www.youtube.com/centralboilerinc#p/u/0/rwL01iW36MA
You will find their are lots of helpful owners of most brands and models out there that are willing to share their experiences, whatever you do.
Back when I was much younger, I burned an indoor wood stove, I would never do that again after burning outdoors. Home insurance is cheaper too when not burning indoors and much less mess, handling and fire concerns. Enjoy your research!

[mackdx]

Guys -

Thanks for the insight.  Certainly some good info here if one is willing to dig for it.

MattyNH - The dealer you mentioned is Mainly Custom.  They are about 3 miles up the road from my house so I suspect that is a good place to start.  I hadn't thought about contacting them as their web page makes reference to Wood Doctor stoves. Loking at all of the horror stories about the Wood Doctor on this site I really didn't think that was the route to go.  Portage and Main seems to be pretty universally respected so I'll start my research there.

[MattyNH]

Guys -

Thanks for the insight.  Certainly some good info here if one is willing to dig for it.

MattyNH - The dealer you mentioned is Mainly Custom.  They are about 3 miles up the road from my house so I suspect that is a good place to start.  I hadn't thought about contacting them as their web page makes reference to Wood Doctor stoves. Loking at all of the horror stories about the Wood Doctor on this site I really didn't think that was the route to go.  Portage and Main seems to be pretty universally respected so I'll start my research there.

Yeah they use to be a wood doctor dealer...Use to see the display all the time on rt 111 driving by...Def good start considering your only a few miles from that dealer..The dealer I mentioned for Central Boiler in Dover..Really great guy..My bro-inlaw bought a pellet owb from him...He also has helped me out and I don't even own a central boiler..

[martyinmi]

Guys -

Thanks for the insight.  Certainly some good info here if one is willing to dig for it.

MattyNH - The dealer you mentioned is Mainly Custom.  They are about 3 miles up the road from my house so I suspect that is a good place to start.  I hadn't thought about contacting them as their web page makes reference to Wood Doctor stoves. Loking at all of the horror stories about the Wood Doctor on this site I really didn't think that was the route to go.  Portage and Main seems to be pretty universally respected so I'll start my research there.

The guy's name is Richard. If there were such a thing as a gasification guru, that ol' hippie(he's younger than me!) would be it! He has more knowledge pertaining to gasifying OWB's floating around in his brain than the majority of the engineers that blueprint them. He is the reason we bought our P&M's here in mid Michigan.
   He got burned by Wood Doctor like so many other dealers did, but he's moved on, and he has an enthusiastic attitude about the future of gasifying OWB's.

[mattNH]

Richard from Mainly Custom installed my P&M Optimizer 250 at the end or December/beginning of January this year.  I would heartily recommend him to friends, family, or anyone who wants an important job done right.  He is honest, beyond thorough, and is always there when you need him with questions/concerns etc. 

This is important since I am brand new to the world of OWB's and needed a certain level of hand holding...especially at the beginning with the learning curve.

He is coming down in May to install a plate to plate heat exchanger so the OWB can heat our pool. 

As far as the P&M 250.  We love it.  I am heating 3100 square feet on two zones and will be adding radiators to the garage.  Prior to the OWB we had been heating with propane (FHA) and paid an average of $7200 per year over the past 5 years.  When going through the selection process I figured it would be roughly a 3 year break even and it looks like we will do a little better than that.  Enough so that I went out an picked up a new MS441.  Who knows, maybe I'll add a splitter once I get this OWB paid off.   Good luck and let me know if you have any detailed questions.

Matt

[Scott7m]

Matt, don't let anyone convince you to install a plate heat exchanger on your pool.  It needs to be a shell pool exchanger or the pool chems will eat it up, not enough flow through them either

[mackdx]

MattNH -

About how much wood are you burning per season with your 250? 

[Bill G]

Mack,

     I have opt250 and heat the exact space you have.  11 yr old, well insul. home.  A real easy walk-in-the-park for that unit.  Never a problem with not enough heat, dhw, or burn time.  This is my first year with it, and of course very mild winter.  I will burn 6 cord this year in NEPA.

     A bit of a learning curve to get optimal performance from my furnace, but we're gaining on it.  Expect to perform regular cleanings to keep functioning properly.  But, since both of us must have gassifiers, I suppose these units are at the top of the class.

     Go for it, and enjoy telling the gas/oil man to take a hike!

     

[woodsmaster]

 Pros OWB conventional - Mess outdoors, can burn green wood if you get behind.

Cons OWB conventional - low efficiency, smoke/polution, Legel regulations.

Pros outdoor gasifier -clean burning/higher efficiency/less wood.

Cons outdoor gasser- will only burn dry wood, price, heat loss to outside.

Pros indoor gasser - No cost in underground lines, No heat loss to under ground lines or boiler Jacket to outside.

Wouldn't recomend non gasser boiler indoors due to creasote / chiminey fire risk.
 
Cons indoor gasseer - Mess in house, possible smoke in house, price.

There are plenty of indoor gassers big enough for your load and much bigger.

Hope this helps. J.T. 

[mackdx]

Woodmaster -

Thanks for the insight!  The thought of an indoor gasser doesn't bother me in the garage from a dirt standpoint.  I have two dogs that live out there and I spend a lot of time working on motorcycles and maintaining dirt bikes.  The place could always use a good sweeping.

In gerneral terms, what is the price difference between a P&M gasser and a Central Boiler unit (the two brands I would be likely looking at)? 

How much of a difference in wood burned per year (round percentages)?   

What are the differences in maintenance between the gasser and non gasser?

Is an indoor boiler a homeowners insurance issue?

[TheBoiler]

I have an indoor boiler but in a separate building.

Part of the benefit was not having to haul wood inside and clean up the mess.

This way the wood and the boiler are close to each other.

[woodsmaster]

 Most insurance dont care if you have a boiler in the house. They might not let you put it in the
garage though due to gas etc... I would check before you make that decision.