Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: ticapa on December 28, 2019, 06:11:50 AM

Title: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 28, 2019, 06:11:50 AM
This is what our furnace looked like after one year of burning.  I am posting on here to start a thread and see if any others have had this issue.  I have been in contact with the factory and finally got an answer with a letter dated from over a year ago.  Not Good.  Please let me know if anyone has seen this.  Also in the letter I was informed it was from burning the stove too hot.  Impossible as the deteriorated area is under ash in the firebox.  Frustration maxed out now.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 28, 2019, 06:13:33 AM
Sorry don't have my picture sizing right here is another one.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 28, 2019, 08:00:29 AM
So what did good ole Jake and Ryan have to say about it? Lots of HeatMaster defenders on here so this should be a good thread, Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on December 28, 2019, 09:37:57 AM
What part of the stove is this? Maybe take a shot a little further back so the location shows up better. I have two customers that seemed to have a longer learning curve than most, the one I used a hammer and chisel to get the one inch of creosote off his door frame. Iíd like to see if I find the same in theirs if we can ever get em clean enough.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 28, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
It is on the left side of the plenum hole as you can see in this photo.  It is also started on the right too.  I am anal about cleaning the stove every year at shut down.  I am sure there is many stoves out there like this but if you don't get in there with a respirator and goggles and plan on getting dirty you probably will never see it.

I probably never would have started this post but I am a little concerned when I received for the first time a letter to me from heat masters dated 12/22/2018.  It also is discouraging when they are not fully investigating the problem and tell me via letter that I burned it too hot and that is the cause.  I have been burning out door boilers for 21+ years and am kicking myself for not keeping my original Central boiler that is still running to this day.  As far as I am concerned Headmasters has dropped the ball on this one.  They have had an open invitation to our farm since the day I found the issue of course no one came.  So how can they tell someone what caused it with out looking at it. 

Two other problems with this stove too. 1. Bypass door warped when it didn't shut fully and heat went passed it last year. I had to have one bent and build it myself as they could not find original blueprint for this stove.  2. They have not been able to send me the right insulation used between the plenum and bottom of the firebox so every time I clean the ash I end up wasting money on 1" door rope to seal the hole.  If it is open your flame does not come to the front as per design.  I will attach pictures of this to.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 28, 2019, 11:06:02 AM
Ok a little more info on the other problems this past year.  First is you can see old door on the tire and the reason the rope is out which you can see well is the warp.  Second is the door the factory sent (long one) wrong and the one I had to build next to it.  Third picture is door installed by me this year and now bolted shut to hopefully lose no heat out the top.

Not sure on the take on this whole forum of everyone here but I am throwing this out there.  The most frustrating thing is we pay big $$$ for these units up front for the warranty that is built into the price which I understand, but when you do all your own warranty work why do we pay for it?  This is just wrong and I am having a hard time recommending these units (any brand) to anyone as there is no dealer warranty support that I know of on any of them.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 28, 2019, 01:40:55 PM
Could you Please check the date of manufacture on that stove, I donít think they have produced that smoke bypass door for at least 5 years, because it had so many issues, perhaps thatís why they arenít being helpful?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on December 28, 2019, 06:11:22 PM
Ahh, does yours also have the cleanest door on top for the turbolators?

Far as the gap between the horseshoe refractory and the bottom of the top chamber, its supposed to be there, if the lower refractory fits too tight they will break. It does look a little excessive though.

Iím still not understanding where the bad spots are though, yourís is before my time. Personally though it looks more like corrosion if a little moisture mixed with some ash and made a weak acid.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 28, 2019, 07:11:08 PM
Looks like pitting in the metal to me and that for sure isnít a 1 year old stove, it looks like somebody was selling off some very old stock.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 28, 2019, 07:12:30 PM
Marty, does the warranty cover from date of purchase or date of manufacture.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 29, 2019, 06:41:56 AM
Does anybody on here know if HeatMasters warranty now covers from date of purchase/ installation or is it from date of manufacture? This stove if sold as a new stove is over five years old Iím sure from the rectangular smoke bypass. Their solution to this issue was to weld the bypass closed as it would warp and leak shortly after initial fire up.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on December 29, 2019, 07:44:40 AM
Does this g400 have a date of manufacture sticker? Where are you located? Who is our dealer since apparently you have been dealing straight from the factory? When did you receive the letter? Looks like someone hit the 8 instead of 9 on the keyboard by accident?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on December 29, 2019, 08:14:32 AM
Marty, does the warranty cover from date of purchase or date of manufacture.

Iím taking care of an area East of me now as well, either the previous dealer never took care of the warranty or they mailed it and it never showed up. The customer had a warranty claim and I was able to get it honored as we went off the date of the install, not the date of manufacture. The old dealer had it on his lot for over a year before selling it.

I fax all warranty forms in then give em a call to double check.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 29, 2019, 08:29:03 AM
So, just out of curiosity, is that dealer still selling HeatMaster? Is that boiler a rebuilt boiler because I know for a fact that I replaced at least 3 of them when I first started with HeatMaster because of the issues with the smoke bypass door warping. That was well over 5 years ago so either the dealer or HeatMaster had it sitting around for well over the one year that you state. Did they replace the boiler with a current model or simply send him a new smoke bypass door which would not solve the corrosion issue clearly visible in the photos posted.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 29, 2019, 02:14:48 PM
OK to clarify I will attach the plate photo here for all to see.  But first what everyone needs to understand is I purchased the stove in October of 2016  I installed it right away and the first pictures above are from right after the first season June 2017.  Yes every year it has gotten progressively worse and I have been anal retentive about documenting everything from water sample results to clean out pictures after the season.

It was manufactured in May of 2014 I knew this at purchase and made sure the dealer contacted the factory to guarantee a full new unit warranty from date of purchase.  The rep from the factory whom I have spoken with and emailed many times about the issues confirmed this coverage.  The problem how ever is we purchased it assuming we could get a minimum 12 year use out of it to justify the cost of the unit.  I am going to be lucky if we get another season after this one out of it. 

The only person who has been to see the stove was the dealer that sold it to me in the summer of 2017 he saw it  after the first season.  The problem is he no longer is a dealer sold out of his business that summer.  Imagine that.  Yes this is our 4th season we are going into with a very expensive unit that is hanging on like a thread.   The new door and plenum problems are new after last seasons (2019) burn. 

So let me ask all of you on here would you not expect that stove to last 12 seasons?  My Central boiler that we installed in 1999 at our other house 1/2 mile away is still running as I type this with no issues.   Will this Heatmaster make it?  In my opinion as it is getting worse every year no way.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 29, 2019, 02:45:34 PM
Couple more answers The dealer quit selling Heatmasters after 2017.  New dealer in area who is trying but does not have the experience necessary to handle these complex issues and also has not bothered to come look at this unit with many invites.  I have dealt with Heatmasters warranty dept directly and also have found another contact who has been helpful too. 

Unit was not a "rebuilt" unit it had been to shows and sat outside on the dealers lot since May 2014.  Could this be why the SS steel is pitted?  In my metal/welding experience HELL yes this could be why and should have been looked into by factory and warranty dept.
Quote
Looks like pitting in the metal to me and that for sure isnít a 1 year old stove, it looks like somebody was selling off some very old stock.
I brought this up to the warranty dept when I first found the pitting.  I was shot down!

("Ahh, does yours also have the cleanest door on top for the turbolators?

Far as the gap between the horseshoe refractory and the bottom of the top chamber, its supposed to be there, if the lower refractory fits too tight they will break. It does look a little excessive though.

Iím still not understanding where the bad spots are though, yourís is before my time. Personally though it looks more like corrosion if a little moisture mixed with some ash and made a weak acid.")

Yes Clean out door on top.  Yes excessive gap over plenum as they have since changed the design.  If I leave that gap open efficiency goes up the stack and shows with infrared thermometer in stack temps.   Yes I thought of moisture and ash making acid but I say impossible as we slowly build an ash bed with extremely dry wood to guarantee that is not the case.  If it is then it is a design failure and should be completely covered under warranty.

This stove is a complete disappointment in structural integrity from the get go.  But the most frustrating thing is a letter from the factory with a wrong date and accusing me of burning it too hot and causing the pitting that way! 
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 29, 2019, 04:12:18 PM
Just so that everyone is on the same page here because anyone who knows me, knows that I despise HeatMaster, Jake Friesen and Ryan Friesen for what they have done to me over the years, they cost me more money than any of you will ever understand but the big thing that they cost me was reputation and friendship with my customers, I take that very personally and donít forget! With that being said, ticapa, that stove model was a major issue for them that caused multiple change outs, if the corrosion was caused by moisture then it was likely because the bypass was leaking and constantly drawing air through the stove, it will never be right until the bypass door is sealed permanently. The large space over the refractory and below the firebox bottom was a result of the designers not taking expansion and contraction of the stainless into consideration, believe me when I say that I personally have had to smash many of those refractories out to change them after they cracked to crap, that one seems to have been cut after production. Burning too hot, get the heck out of here, what kind of excuse is that, if the boiler is full of water then how could it possibly heat the stainless steel to the point of compromising that stainless in any way, you would certainly see permanent warpage well before the pitting that we see on that stove! Iím guessing that somebody got a deal on some Chinese stainless. I wish you the best and as long as I donít get banned again for exposing the truth then Iíll be here to help you with information regarding your boiler.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 29, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
Could we possibly see that letter?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 29, 2019, 05:02:41 PM
 :post:

SlimJim, First I hope you would not be banned for the truth!  That is why I am a member of this forum and monitor it to find the truth and a solution to the problem and the cause of the problem.

I would have never brought this issue to this forum but I have been a mechanic/fabricator for 25+ years and the factory response letter accusing me of "overheating " the boiler is wrong and insulting.  Example, of overheated steel is non better then 9-11 in NYC (God Bless all the men and women who lost lives and survived). 

Your explanation above makes perfect sense as the first burn season I had that bypass door out to reseal it several times at a cost to ME.  No reimbursement for warranty work performed by the purchaser.  Also in season 2&3 I fought with that door and did not get the bolt it shut or weld it closed factory recommendation until the fall of this year.  Again a Heatmasters fail in my opinion.  I have sent another e-mail/letter to the factory this weekend  voicing my frustration we will see if the respond and back up their unit as it should be.  My hopes are not high.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 29, 2019, 05:20:43 PM
Well my friend it has happened before, the banning I mean. It seems that some of the dealers on this forum get very upset when actual facts and photgrafs are posted about the products that they sell. I do not wish any of them any harm but only to expose the facts about some of the crap that I personally received, sold, delivered, installed and now canít service by orders of Jake Friesen because of my posting some of those photos. I wish you luck sir and Iím sure there are several of those dealers burning the ear of Mr. Friesen to buy back that stove or replace it with a current model, you are on the right track! Keep it factual, honest and back up anything you say Please.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: E Yoder on December 30, 2019, 03:44:36 AM
So to summarize things, your concern is the gap at the top of the lower brick, metal on the firebox floor, and the warped smoke bypass, correct?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 30, 2019, 07:04:54 AM
Quote
So to summarize things, your concern is the gap at the top of the lower brick, metal on the firebox floor, and the warped smoke bypass, correct?

Pitted metal top concern.  When measured is over 85% through on largest pitts.  Life span of the stove has become a very concerning problem with this issue.  How would you suggest I guarantee a 12 year minimum life for this stove?

Plenum space (gap) is next concern as this stove was researched and purchased on it's efficiency ratings.   They go right up the chimney when that gap is open as your stack temps reach high numbers.  High stack temp = poor efficiency on gasser correct?

3 burn season a bypass door warps that since new I had been fighting to keep sealed.  Made factory and dealer representatives aware of this sealing issue many times and not told to bolt or weld shut until the beginning of the 4 season and I had to build my own door.  So how much extra wood in 3 seasons has this stove cost me?  Just to give everyone an idea of my inventory we started this season with 30.19 FULL cords of wood stacked in shed.

Many other smaller issues that I have had to re-fabricate or engineer to make work.  ex. mounting of fan, electrical issues, etc. 

So yes three major concerns.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on December 30, 2019, 07:38:21 AM
For my own curiosity, what kind of temps are you seeing out of the stack?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 30, 2019, 01:06:58 PM
Why in the world would there be that much pitting in a stove thatís made with Titanium enhanced stainless steel in less than five years? Unless of course the factory perhaps made the same mistake with this one as they did with all those airboxes that rotted out on us because they mistakenly substituted mild steel for the Titanium enhanced stuff.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: E Yoder on December 31, 2019, 03:23:41 AM
Like Marty said, I'd like to see specific stack temps.
My experience has always been when I've called them and talked it over they've always treated me well. Since it's running but you're not comfortable with it, I wonder if you could work out a trade next summer when heating season is over.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 31, 2019, 06:18:23 AM
Quote
For my own curiosity, what kind of temps are you seeing out of the stack?

I have never seen the low number they put in their flyer except right after the install start up.    I have seen up to 750 degree's when I am missing insulation over the top of the plenum.  500 let's me know I better be looking at the furnace and find the issue.  400 is where it usually runs.

Are you guys seeing lots of ash and material come out of you chimney's after a season of running?  I have 2 and 1/2 pieces of 8" insulated pipe and the material that comes out of this "green" clean pipe is to me unacceptable.   I do have a cap.   When I can get one of the boys to run the loader I will get you a good picture.  Also cause I know it will come out our wood is two season stacked before burned. it is dry.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 31, 2019, 06:43:47 AM
Quote
I wonder if you could work out a trade next summer when heating season is over.

I realize most of you on here are dealers and I certainly respect that.  I myself have thought of becoming a dealer but between 75 head of black Angus, field crops, working equipment repair shop on the farm with my son's and a 40 hr week town job my time would never allow it.   I am not out here to cause you any harm on this forum.  I am just trying to get the proper fix to a bad purchase.  I had many reasons to buy this stove in 2016 and one of them was how much the dealer said the factory will stand behind their product.  The dealer (who is out of business now) had a very clean setup, a building stocked with parts, a good way to load and unload stoves, good knowledge of his product at the time and talked very highly of the owners.  When I was at his yard looking in 2016 he had a used stove that the company took out and replaced (G200 model) that was purely replaced because the owner had NEGLECTED the stove.  WOW! That was warranty to a guy like me and man that sold me at the time figured I had nothing to worry about if this stove was faulty they had my back.  Guess what it appears I was wrong. 

My stove has been meticulously taken care of cleaned, sampled water, ash in lower burn chamber always removed timely.  Shop vacuumed whole unit between each season.  Installed under a shed roof hell I even have washed the outside with soap and water. 

So now I hope you dealers on here are seeing why I have started this thread!  I am down right frustrated with the factories response to my problem it is UNACCEPTABLE.   To tell me overheating caused it was wrong!  SlimJim has made the most sense to my problem yet.  He has brought up a cause to my issues that makes common sense.  No one at the factory did that.  I also now realize from receiving the wrong by-pass door and plenum height to tank bottom problem that this stove design was drastically modified.

I have responded to the factory in written form to their letter to me.  I just hope in the weeks to come I can come to this forum with good things to say about Steeltech and their owners. Time will tell and we will see. 

E Yoder hopefully they listen to their respectable dealers trying to make a living from their product.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 31, 2019, 09:43:23 AM
Very well said sir!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on December 31, 2019, 10:32:13 AM
Just so that we are all aware, Eldon certainly knows of the issues with that model stove, I changed out one with the same issue in Pa on my way down to his dealer meeting years ago and he had another one there just like it that he had to cut holes through the front of to clean the air channels because they gummed up completely and there was no access to them. That stove should never have been sold before it was retrofitted.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 02, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Question to Marty and Eldon, what would you folks think was a reasonable stack temp on this G 400?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 04:27:54 AM
Sooo, it seems the two major dealers for HeatMaster no longer wish to comment on this problem HeatMaster, sweep it under the rug instead of answeringthe direct questions.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Superwd6 on January 05, 2020, 10:21:58 AM
Sad to see pitting  in this location. My standard steel Eclassic 2300 is on year 11 and has 0 corrosion under ash line . Itís harder for a dealer that didnít sell the product to get warranty. Iím sure, like corrosion warranty on your car itís no good for surface rust until the hole goes through 100% and leaks  :-\ . I stopped wasting money on central boilers Ashtroll and spend little on lime that actually neutralize the acid in firebox. Stack temps will be much higher on a stove after ash and dirt start to cover heat exchanger. Should see the galvanizing flake off flue pipes of oil fired water heaters after a few years  :o .
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
Whatís sad is that they sold a boiler with known issues at the smoke bypass and blamed it on the customer, I sure hope they do the right thing and replace the boiler with a current unit as well as an apology for accusing the customer of causing the issues!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
Sooo, it seems the two major dealers for HeatMaster no longer wish to comment on this problem HeatMaster, sweep it under the rug instead of answeringthe direct questions.


1: Why would a dealer for Heatmaster reply after youíre past behavior? No matter the reply, youíre going to take it and head off into unknown tangents and turn it into something it isnít to fit your agenda.

2: Iím not replying as before you seemed to think as a moderator I shouldnít have an opinion and shouldnít be posting at all.

3: Pick one and run with it, I seem to remember a previous rant of yours was that the new air box was crap and shouldnít have been put into production at all, yet now youíre claiming the design before the new air box was crap and should have never been sold until it was upgraded to the new design which was crap and should have never been sold, pick one.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
History lesson for you Marty, the design that he has should never have been sold to him because the flat rectangular bypass was VERY prone to warping and leaking, this caused an incomplete burn as well as overheating of the fan and high stack temp losses, the next design was a round chamfered edge plate that fit int a machined piece of pipe, it worked awesome until they cheapened that design to a rolled receiver and lighter plate, then they decided to save money on the airboxes that I had so much trouble with and eventually got so fed up with the lies and money their service calls cost me, I quit! As far as you commenting, Iíve never said you shouldnít comment, I have said that there should be more moderators that are not tied to any particular manufacturer as you certainly are and they should have veto power over your decisions to ban guys like me who want facts good or bad to be brought into the light and solved. I have nothing against you, Eldon, RSI or any of the dealers for them and certainly understand your dislike of me and the knowledge I posses of their product, itís just to bad that you donít seem to understand their faults and donít want them held responsible! Next time you talk to good old Jake, tell him Iím still around and wanted to say hello! Oh and by the way, thanks for all the help and truthful posts with Dylan on Andrews boiler, that sure showed your true colors!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2020, 02:08:58 PM


My only comments on Andrews boiler was something was definitely wrong. Which was proved correct when the hole was found in the air channel.


See 1 and 2
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 02:24:34 PM
Was that all that you found Marty, the hole on the intake air was less than the size of a dime and yes, it was on the intake side which woul simply be allowing more air, kind of like the rotted out airboxes we dealt with from your supplier, the boiler ran fine! In fact I have spoken with the guy that bought that particular boiler and heís very happy, come on Marty, you saw the drainage ditch, you know it was to divert water from his junk pipe and botched install but you chose not to show the facts to attempt to make me look bad.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 05, 2020, 02:29:07 PM
And the hole let let it sit there and fill with creosote 24/7. We cut gauges in, no heat loss in the pipe.

And Iím done, see 2

Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Of course there wasnít, the new ditch diverted the water away from the pipe, come on Marty, do you think that hole was there when we went to work on the boiler?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: wreckit87 on January 05, 2020, 02:58:45 PM
I seem to recall an Andrew fella out East with a faulty stove a year or two ago that matches the description of this issue. Now, Mr Jim, are you referring to the ditch dug for the replacement line several feet uphill from the existing line that was a couple feet too short to reach the house? The ditch that was topographically higher than the old one? See, some of us would go with our gut and insist that water flows downhill which would have had it pooling against the house's foundation. Yet here you are, implying that a ditch with a higher elevation would, in fact, drain a lower ditch which happened to also be downhill from the "drainage" ditch. Would you care to explain the science behind drainage ditches defying gravity and forcing water to flow uphill? I'd LOVE to learn more about this (I'm a science geek) and I'll bet there are others that could benefit from the same knowledge.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 03:24:59 PM
You are correct sir, that was the boiler and let me try to explain in simple terms. Iím not sure where you got the idea that any water flowed uphill, that sir would be a miracle in itself. The case was a very poor installation  where the outer jacket fell a few feet short of the foundation so the pex was left unprotected, water flowed down the hill and against the foundation where the uninsulated pex entered the foundation. We shot the concrete wall and found 110 degree f temps for about 4 feet around those pipes. When Andrew dug the new ditch, it was a few feet uphill from the old pipe which then led down and away from the poor pipe and drained into his perimeter drains which allowed the pipe to dry out. Thatís not so hard to understand is it?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 05, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Sooo, now that itís been attempted to divert attention away from the subject as it usually is whenever a problem HeatMaster boiler comes into the spotlight, direct question Marty, is good old Truthful Jake going to make things right here?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 06, 2020, 04:19:30 AM
I gather Shepard boy that you think itís foolish of me to state facts, funny how some folks use religion to hide behind, yea, Jake did that as well!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 06, 2020, 12:26:13 PM
Well there we have it folks, the three biggest dealers and advocates of HeatMaster have spoken, no resolve yet, nope not even an admission of an issue that they all know exists, bible verses used to attempt to insult me, facts hidden, customers blamed for design defects. I sure hope your God can find the strength to forgive you for your blatant misuse of his book.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 06, 2020, 03:26:34 PM
Well there we have it folks, the three biggest dealers and advocates of HeatMaster have spoken, no resolve yet, nope not even an admission of an issue that they all know exists, bible verses used to attempt to insult me, facts hidden, customers blamed for design defects. I sure hope your God can find the strength to forgive you for your blatant misuse of his book.

If the original poster wishes to contact me thru email or messages thru this board Iím fine with that, Iím just not playing anymore of youíre silly games since I know how it ends already.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 07, 2020, 03:05:27 AM
Well Marty, he called me yesterday and will be holding off until he speaks with Wally again to see how they will be handling the situation, I sincerely hope they do right by him!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 07, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Lol. Called a disgruntled ex employee of the company. Sounds like a conspiracy.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 07, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
No conspiracy about it Jonathan, not funny either! He searched me out because the rest of you dealers and HeatMaster couldnít or wouldnít answer his questions. The model he has is before yours so I wouldnít expect you to know anything about it but the Yoders certainly do and I do. It was junk before they built it, lousy design!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on January 07, 2020, 05:00:19 PM
--Shepard Boy--
Please read this entire thread.   You will see your answers to "dealer" and "clout" .  You will also see if you read everything why I started this post. 

Also let me set this straight!!!  There is no conspiracy.  This post was started to find the "Cause" and the "Solution".   I would say the thread has brought out a more possible cause then the letter to me stated. 

To all of you experienced and top rated authors I appreciate your input and wisdom.  My father always said if you learn one thing everyday it was a good day.  I have learned much from all of the posts on this forum and I hope others have as well.  That to me is great considering I have been burning outdoor boiler's for over 25 years.  Having been through and around several manufacture's some in business some out to be able to learn more from this forum is great! 
Quote
Sounds like a conspiracy

Lastly your "Conspiracy" theory is BS.  I did reach out to slijim in 2016 when I was installing this unit just to run some ideas by him.  He was great answered the questions and helped with the set up over the phone.  He lives in colder then me country and knew what the heck he was talking about with no BS.  He also spoke very highly of the Steeltech product at that time too.   What happened to him and the companies relationship between now and then I don't know and don't CARE.   So yes, I reached out to him from an old number recently to find out more info. Why?  Well if you read through this whole thread his statements as to the possible cause make perfect sense.   
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on January 08, 2020, 06:35:27 AM
With out bashing your response I would like to clarify two things in your response.
  1. You speak of all the factory modifications necessary on the furnace I have.  What modifications?   How come no one showed up to do any of these modifications to my furnace?   I registered the warranty even had the dealer check on the warranty before I picked the unit up in his yard.  So I guess the unit is different or they didn't get the mods done on this unit.
  2. You stated that "you and Marty" about ash build up and acid deterioration.  My only statement on the metal deterioration is the years it sat with out being used.  It was opened and closed the boiler was able to take in moisture causing the metal to start deterioration before it was even fired.  We all know that SS will rust we are aware if there is chips or filings they will start the surface rust too.  So my reason to clarify this part of your statement is it comes off to the reader that I let ash building sit there with out heat causing the deterioration.  If you read the post and look at the pictures we take pretty darn good care of everything around this farm.  Unless the acid is building in the ash bed while it is burning I don't see how acid got in there while not hot. Cleaned and oiled every season.

The photo attached shows our farm and wood shed buildings home etc.  As you can see I work hard to keep an organized and neat farm.  I am just upset that I was accused by the factory of doing something to cause this deterioration that I did not do and never happened.  That is the root of the problem.  I could type for days on other small issues from doing my own warranty work at my expense to everything else.  I won't I will just chock that up to one of my learning experiences in life.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 08, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Well then Shepard boy, Iím thinking that you owe me an apology! No it wasnít a conspiracy on my part but it sure seems that when the customer needed help, you gents thought it best to bash the one guy actually helping your customer determine what the actual problem was. Perhaps the conspiracy that you and Jonathan speak of is on the part of the HeatMaster boys on here that do everything they can to squash any comments or complaints against the HeatMaster name. Again I will say that perhaps for the good of the forum we need a completely impartial moderator. Thank you Ticapa for bringing this issue to light, Talk to Jake or Ryan before this goes further and Please report back of the outcome.



Whoís the fool now David?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 08, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
Nice place Ticapa!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 09, 2020, 12:23:40 PM
Ummmn, Shepard boy, are you still there?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 09, 2020, 02:11:15 PM
Jonathan, how about that conspiracy?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 09, 2020, 02:26:01 PM
How about you Marty, if you are truly impartial, how about speaking to those calling me names and talking conspiracy, perhaps a warning is in order here?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 09, 2020, 02:33:19 PM
Huh, imagine that, I just read back through the pages on this thread and low and behold, Shepard boy deleted his wrongful posts, I wonder Eldon, is he OK?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 09, 2020, 04:08:57 PM
I generally try to avoid people who talk to themselves on forums. Donít want to catch what they could have.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: wreckit87 on January 09, 2020, 04:33:21 PM
Somebody get this clown a straightjacket
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Crow on January 09, 2020, 06:23:03 PM
I left the FB groups for the same BS that's going on here.
You guys seem to enjoy badgering each other and it's tiresome. Can you get past your differences and actually try to help the Original Posting Member since at least 2 of you are HM dealers and should be of more help than what you're doing here.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 02:37:04 AM
Iím glad you see it Crow.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 05:52:20 AM
Whatís odd is that the moderator canít seem to see the difference, canít or wonít help and he even sells the same brand.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: E Yoder on January 10, 2020, 05:54:18 AM
As I said earlier (post #24 I think) I think your best bet is to call Heatmaster and talk to Devon about a trade. Ideally the local dealer could be in the loop even if it's not the one who sold it originally.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 05:57:15 AM
I think it was said before, that route has already been taken and he was accused of overheating the boiler, heís now AGAIN talking with corporate and expects a just conclusion to this mess soon. Whatís up with your Dad?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: hondaracer2oo4 on January 10, 2020, 07:49:14 AM
I know most people that see these posts have no idea what is going on and where the strife comes from. Iím not about to put up a history lesson here. You can either think that the one guy taking to himself is the problem or the rest of the posters are the problem.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Crow on January 10, 2020, 08:02:44 AM
Well when you would rather take over the conversation with your attacks on one member instead of actually offering assistance to the original post, says more about the many, than the few, or one in this case.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 08:46:52 AM
Thank You Crow, I have complained to the one and only Moderator in several ways as well as multiple times but it seems that he doesnít remember his own rules of engagement or perhaps those rules donít pertain to HeatMaster guys! Letís hope that ticapa has a more productive conversation with HeatMaster corporate than we have seen on here!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 10, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
Thank You Crow, I have complained to the one and only Moderator in several ways as well as multiple times but it seems that he doesnít remember his own rules of engagement or perhaps those rules donít pertain to HeatMaster guys! Letís hope that ticapa has a more productive conversation with HeatMaster corporate than we have seen on here!

Oh I remember them quite well, except you were the one that started out with the subtle jabs and the slights to the other dealers and the moderator (myself). Now that the shoe is on the other foot you donít like it. Reap what you sow. Not one of the dealers have refused to help, myself Iím not going to do it to where you can pick apart every single sentence and turn it into something itís not.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 11:28:10 AM
Can you tell me where I started with jabs toward any of them including you Sir?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 11:38:37 AM
I just went back and recapped over the beginning of this thread and I see nothing other than saying that there are several HeatMaster defenders on here including you sir and it should be a good thread. I came up with why heís having an issue and you guys got all bent out of shape as you do so often when HeatMaster is put to shame.

Did you ever stop to think Marty that perhaps your one sided view of things regarding HeatMaster and the way you protect those who serve HeatMaster on this very site is #1 why folks donít talk about their issues with HeatMasters product and #2 why this site has declined so sharply? Nobody wants a washed clean advertising site, perhaps itís time for a change sir.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 10, 2020, 11:50:41 AM
I just went back and recapped over the beginning of this thread and I see nothing other than saying that there are several HeatMaster defenders on here including you sir and it should be a good thread. I came up with why heís having an issue and you guys got all bent out of shape as you do so often when HeatMaster is put to shame.

Did you ever stop to think Marty that perhaps your one sided view of things regarding HeatMaster and the way you protect those who serve HeatMaster on this very site is #1 why folks donít talk about their issues with HeatMasters product and #2 why this site has declined so sharply? Nobody wants a washed clean advertising site, perhaps itís time for a change sir.


Get with the times, Facebook Groups are growing by leaps and bounds unfortunately, so much easier to find information here though.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 12:04:02 PM
Ok, so first you didnít show me where I jabbed the HeatMaster defenders, next, Facebook has been around for many years, we were doing fine before this site was taken over by those HeatMaster defenders. You may as well come right out and say it, those rules YOU put in place are only meant for the others, not the HeatMaster guys. Itís sad Marty, it used to be an awesome site that I promoted very heavily and spent lots of my time advocating for wood boilers but you have let things develop into a HeatMaster rules site, itís time for a change sir.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 10, 2020, 12:18:40 PM
Ok, so first you didnít show me where I jabbed the HeatMaster defenders, next, Facebook has been around for many years, we were doing fine before this site was taken over by those HeatMaster defenders. You may as well come right out and say it, those rules YOU put in place are only meant for the others, not the HeatMaster guys. Itís sad Marty, it used to be an awesome site that I promoted very heavily and spent lots of my time advocating for wood boilers but you have let things develop into a HeatMaster rules site, itís time for a change sir.

Hardly, Hydronic Wood Heating hasnít even been around 2 years, has 1411 members, more joined in the last week than this site seen in a month even when it was hopping, which Iím a moderator there as well, doesnít seem to hurt it in the least.

Outdoor Wood Boiler, 2617 members.

Outdoor Wood Boilers, 2101 members

Outdoor Furnace Owners, 1430 members

Even your cute little group has 722 members.

But yah, facebook groups donít leach the least bit of traffic from here. Itís not like this site is as easy to use as Facebook or as easy to post pictures as Facebook. Which by the way the software used here I have zero control over, I donít have permissions to upgrade it or add a ďLike" button like facebook has. Only a few a add on mods were available for a like button with this software and those havenít been updated in years.

I seem to recall somewhere you were promoting this site and claimed it had over 8000 members, it doesnít, the majority of those have never posted once or are linked to other spam accounts that have been banned.

Far as the other part, I donít have time atm, Iíll dig thru it later  in what little spare time I have.

Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: wreckit87 on January 10, 2020, 12:56:49 PM
I heard the moderators on that Outdoor Wood Boiler page used foul language a few times and really hurt traffic, I wonder why it has so many members and dozens of posts every day? Not much of a Facebook person myself, but peruse it on occasion to see what's happening. I did find it rather comical that some Richard fella was having a real bird about the foul language thing, like there are 5 year olds active on the page or something. Maybe that's the demise here too, probably a bunch of foul language keeping traffic low. The availability of instantaneous responses and phone app accessibility has no bearing on Facebook being higher traffic I'll bet.

But anyway, perhaps the person crying about the subject here should shut his yap about other people not helping the OP if he's not going to help himself. What was that old saying about a pot and a kettle again?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 01:09:06 PM
Perhaps Darin, you should re read the entire thread, it seems that I actually am the only person who noticed and called out the issue, before this thread and my getting involved HeatMaster blamed the customer for overheating his boiler. Now that the customer knows what he bought and the reason for his troubles, he is now getting some action, you see Ryan Freisen is now attempting to make a deal instead of Wally or Devin. Ryan doesnít like bad publicity! What happened to Wally I wonder? Iím told he is gone.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 01:14:54 PM
Marty, so you accuse me of being the culprit but canít take the few seconds it takes to read the beginning of this thread, you also canít recognise that some people leave due to the totally biased viewpoints from the moderator and his fellow HeatMaster crew. Perhaps you should re read your own rules! Perhaps itís time for a change!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 10, 2020, 01:50:59 PM
Marty, you actually took the time to research what the membership levels of all those sites were? But you canít find the time to read the first page of this thread even after accusing me of being the culprit!
Wow, just plain WOW, itís time for a change!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Crow on January 10, 2020, 04:33:37 PM


But anyway, perhaps the person crying about the subject here should shut his yap about other people not helping the OP if he's not going to help himself. What was that old saying about a pot and a kettle again?


Well, if it's me your refering to, I am NOT a dealer for any brand or pretending to be an so called expert. I received valuable information and assistance from this site and the old outdoor boiler site years ago when I was getting started. People made these sites helpful, where someone like the OP could get some helpful information or advice. Not so much anymore. If I had the info or connections to HM that the good dealers here must have, I would be right in there helping him, but that's not what seems to be happening. I guess since he didn't purchase the unit from someone here he's on his own?
I posted on this thread not because I have the answer to his issues, but trying to get you back to the real reason , for me anyway, why most members joined here, to learn and to help others with their outdoor furnace.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: E Yoder on January 11, 2020, 06:00:41 AM
I was considering posting more, but things got out of hand. So I'll stick my neck out now.
The bypass door has warped, i don't think there's a good fix except for what he's done, bolting it shut. I don't know if the dealer sold as is or not, with it being older when sold. I don't know the story there.
The brick in the bottom has a gap around the top. The new ones do too, maybe a little narrower than what his picture shows but definitely not tight to the top. I can see a larger gap adding maybe a hundred degrees to the stack temps, but I'm wondering if some of the high stack temps he measured are with the smoke bypass leaking by.
The rough looking metal. I appears to me it goes past some welds, so I would think something really corrosive was in the firebox at some point rather than bad metal. The only thing I've seen flake up 409 SS was some salt water from a pool exchanger that leaked into the water jacket, but that was from the inside out. In this case I don't know and there's no way to go back and inspect it before it was burned, which was why I suggested seeing if he could trade it in.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: wreckit87 on January 11, 2020, 08:19:50 AM


But anyway, perhaps the person crying about the subject here should shut his yap about other people not helping the OP if he's not going to help himself. What was that old saying about a pot and a kettle again?


Well, if it's me your refering to, I am NOT a dealer for any brand or pretending to be an so called expert. I received valuable information and assistance from this site and the old outdoor boiler site years ago when I was getting started. People made these sites helpful, where someone like the OP could get some helpful information or advice. Not so much anymore. If I had the info or connections to HM that the good dealers here must have, I would be right in there helping him, but that's not what seems to be happening. I guess since he didn't purchase the unit from someone here he's on his own?
I posted on this thread not because I have the answer to his issues, but trying to get you back to the real reason , for me anyway, why most members joined here, to learn and to help others with their outdoor furnace.

My reference was not to you at all, but SlimJim and his agenda. I apologize if it sounded like I was pointing fingers at you. Slim has this tendency to babble on and on about nothing, blaming everybody else for things he could easily take care of himself. A "pot stirrer" if you will. So his ramblings here about nobody else helping the OP when he himself is only hurting the OP by rambling, gets under my skin and I'm sure I'm not the only one
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 11, 2020, 10:09:28 AM
Really Darin, Iím rambling, I saw the door and recognized the problem HeatMaster product, none of you HeatMaster guys recognized it or would help, now with it being a larger thread, perhaps HeatMaster wonít blame the homeowner as they did originally and will replace the problem boiler, what gets under your skin is that again you missed the issue and I didnít!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 11, 2020, 10:12:40 AM
Eldon, good call, exactly as I said before, now, if you paid for a stove expecting a working smoke bypass, would you not want it to work properly?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 11, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
Thanks for all your help Marty, Iím some darn glad that you are so impartial and fair as the only moderator.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: wreckit87 on January 12, 2020, 03:49:47 PM
Really Darin, Iím rambling, I saw the door and recognized the problem HeatMaster product, none of you HeatMaster guys recognized it or would help, now with it being a larger thread, perhaps HeatMaster wonít blame the homeowner as they did originally and will replace the problem boiler, what gets under your skin is that again you missed the issue and I didnít!

I believe you have me confused with someone else, and I have no dog in this fight. I do however, find humor in your ridiculous antics and that is my sole reason for commenting. Everything I've seen you say in the couple years I've been here has been some sort of lunatic agenda against Heatmaster, for whatever reason. I own a Heatmaster and have had very good luck with it, nothing further.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 13, 2020, 04:28:54 PM
Nope, Iím afraid not Darin but thatís ok.
On another note, Shepard Boy sent me a personal message, letís just say that the respect I once had for him has been restored, Thank You Shepard Boy and have a happy retirement, go catch some fish with the young uns.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 21, 2020, 02:44:23 PM
So I spoke with ticapa this morning and an offer has been made but we both agree that it might not be a good deal, what is a guy to do when a manufacturer knowingly sells a problem model boiler and then wants to nickel and dime the customer?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 21, 2020, 04:49:56 PM
Thank You Crow, I have complained to the one and only Moderator in several ways as well as multiple times but it seems that he doesnít remember his own rules of engagement or perhaps those rules donít pertain to HeatMaster guys! Letís hope that ticapa has a more productive conversation with HeatMaster corporate than we have seen on here!

Have you used the ďreport to moderator ď feature?

Thatís what got you in trouble before, other members reporting your posts. Try it, it does work.

Last week I was absent as the plague or Black Death went thru our household.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 22, 2020, 02:08:08 AM
Oh yes Marty, as you know I have used it and sent messages as well but you donít seem to care when your associates come after me or someone complains about a HeatMaster.
Sure glad you are feeling better.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 22, 2020, 07:13:31 AM
Oh yes Marty, as you know I have used it and sent messages as well but you donít seem to care when your associates come after me or someone complains about a HeatMaster.
Sure glad you are feeling better.

And for this I do apologize, I used to get a message like ďyou have reported postsĒ when I logged in or refreshed the page, that feature doesnít seem to be working anymore. Offending members will be warned.

It appears itís been at least two years since the forum software has been updated, I donít have the required permissions or access to do this.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 22, 2020, 07:40:25 AM
Apology accepted for that, now how about a little chat with Darrin Pryzbilla AKA Wreckit and Jonathan for their comments on here as well!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 22, 2020, 07:41:20 AM
Thanks for the follow through RSI
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on January 22, 2020, 08:30:12 AM
Apology accepted for that, now how about a little chat with Darrin Pryzbilla AKA Wreckit and Jonathan for their comments on here as well!

Theyíve been warned.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 22, 2020, 08:42:16 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Trump2020 on January 23, 2020, 04:06:34 PM
well well i see nothing has changed here  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :o :o :o :o :o :o :o Same bullcrap and same bitching. I hope the person with the crapty boiler gets taken care of :bash:
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 24, 2020, 02:08:56 AM
Well well well, it seems that now he finally is being taken seriously by HeatMaster and they have made an offer but itís a shame that he had to go to this extent huh?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Trump2020 on January 24, 2020, 02:47:43 PM
Glad to hear its being resolved
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: Trump2020 on January 24, 2020, 02:51:00 PM
new boiler?
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: slimjim on January 25, 2020, 03:45:57 AM
No
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: mlappin on February 03, 2020, 08:14:04 PM
Marty, you actually took the time to research what the membership levels of all those sites were? But you canít find the time to read the first page of this thread even after accusing me of being the culprit!
Wow, just plain WOW, itís time for a change!


Perfect example here, open Facebook on the smart phone, touch the groups icon, tap a group, scroll to the top of the page, each group has the number of members listed. Took me less time to check on member totals than it did to post here.

The forum software just needs changed to something else, I donít think updating it is enough.

However Iíve also been a member of another forum that changed software, a lot of stuff was lost and was gone forever during the transfer.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: ticapa on December 06, 2020, 07:09:50 AM
Update to all!

I worked with Ryan this year and a dealer in Eastern NY and we have resolved this issue.  Upon cleaning out the furnace in 2020 the deterioration has not gone away and was slowly growing. Ryan and his team deserve a lot of credit for helping and working with me.  We removed the old furnace and he located one here in NY that we where able to swap with.  I have not heard if the old furnace made it back to the factory yet of not. 

So with some modifications and plumbing upgrades we are now heating with a G400 again.   For all that are wondering about some of the upgrades.  I put in a hot water mesh screen with drain and bypass in the main house circuit to help get the fines out before the heat exchangers.  we also relocated circulators to back of the unit and put in line temperature gauges.   All is working well and temperature drops and stack temperatures are exceptional.

Thanks again to Ryan and Heatmasters for correcting a bad situation and helping me.
Title: Re: G400 Metal deterioration
Post by: E Yoder on December 07, 2020, 03:02:00 AM
Good to hear!